Its a matter of money, old cars cheap to buy, but are expensive to repair.
Newer cars are cheap.
Newer cars are cheap.
Not enough younger people in this hobby...
- Thread starter Palmetto
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ExtraGold340
PV wedge head member 3
My three cars (70 and 71 challenger, 72 340 duster) all came from gentlemen who had sons and daughters who thought the hobby was dying and had hoped to restore them. I now have three kids and hope they will share the passion I do. I really think it takes a special kind of parent or mentor to get kids interested in the hobby.
I just have to wonder, how much being exposed to the hobby creates an interest or is it "genetic"? I don't think an interest in anything can be forced or should be f orced on anyone. but if young person never has a chance to see or learn about these old cars, how could the seed of interest ever be planted??
67 prostreet gt
Well-Known Member
As a young gun myself I am very into the vintage iron just cause most people my age aren't into them. Also being a college student I don't have the 30-40k budgets but for the most part I suffice by doing a lot of horse trading and bartering for parts like for example I know a guy who builds drag cars and does a lot of tubing work. So I do work for him in exchange for parts like tranny coolers, sticks of tubing and other things then I make them work for my car. (Mental note maybe that's why the dart isn't running yet) I propbably have hand built about 75% of the car and I love it. I do partially blame my dad and the older generations for my addiction and I blame this site for my addiction to A-body mopars (Being sarcastic there).
Frankie
Member #9641
I have an idea that you have to be a gear head, before you can become a "brand Loyalist", which is what this thread is about; "MoPar guys". Yes, I know there are exceptions to that rule, and it isn't necessary for anyone to jump into this thread with their stories of being a MoPar guy ever since he got a pull toy at 2 years only of a roadrunner... :roll: .
The fact still remains that you first need to have an interest in cars, and mechanics, in general, first. You need to have the place, the time, they money, and the desire.
MY future son-in law has little, if any, interest in cars, as a hobby. His father, on the other hand, is a former roundy-round racer, and presently owns about a dozen (no exaggeration) finished hot rods and resto-rods at his shop.
The government restricted, high insurance cost, expensive gas, strict law Enforcement, and over zealous cops of, plus the sheer cost of ANYTHING car related, and the tight jobs market put's the car hobby in a position of tough times.
Another factor is the sheer lack of inexpensive muscle around. $8000.00 for a "driver" isn't a "bargain", adn the more Barrett-Jacksons and Mecoms there are, the fewer, and the more expensive everyone's junk, becomes.
Back in 1977, I purchased a 392 Hemi, it was fully machined, and set up ofr a 6/71 supercharger. The engine was complete. except for the supercharger, carbs, and exhaust headers. I paid $150.00 for it. Today, you can't even buy the rocker covers of that engine for $150.00
Everything, including the cost of living is more expensive, today, and young people have FAR less disposable income today, than we had as kids.
The car hobby, and the "MoPar" hobby, require people will interest, people with some skill, and people with some money. All of those things are in fairly short supply, lately, and with kids having a greater interest in 4cyl/FWD, "tuners", than 8 cylinder torque monsters, the classic MoPar hobby is, sooner or later, going to become similar to those collectors and enthusiasts who specialize in Hudson's, Studes, Grahams, Essex, and Stuts.
Muscle Car guys are a smaller and smaller field, every year. MoPar guys are even a smaller group. It's just the natural cycle of things. Kids today, (with some exceptions) like what they know, and can afford, and a 2000 Civic, is much more affordable than a 67 Barracuda, and the kids know more about the Civic than they will ever know about the Barracuda, or want to know.
When I was a kid I was much more interested in the 1968 Roadrunner, than in my fathers 1951 Straight 8 Buick. TOday I'd die for either, but, that wasn't the case back then.
The fact still remains that you first need to have an interest in cars, and mechanics, in general, first. You need to have the place, the time, they money, and the desire.
MY future son-in law has little, if any, interest in cars, as a hobby. His father, on the other hand, is a former roundy-round racer, and presently owns about a dozen (no exaggeration) finished hot rods and resto-rods at his shop.
The government restricted, high insurance cost, expensive gas, strict law Enforcement, and over zealous cops of, plus the sheer cost of ANYTHING car related, and the tight jobs market put's the car hobby in a position of tough times.
Another factor is the sheer lack of inexpensive muscle around. $8000.00 for a "driver" isn't a "bargain", adn the more Barrett-Jacksons and Mecoms there are, the fewer, and the more expensive everyone's junk, becomes.
Back in 1977, I purchased a 392 Hemi, it was fully machined, and set up ofr a 6/71 supercharger. The engine was complete. except for the supercharger, carbs, and exhaust headers. I paid $150.00 for it. Today, you can't even buy the rocker covers of that engine for $150.00
Everything, including the cost of living is more expensive, today, and young people have FAR less disposable income today, than we had as kids.
The car hobby, and the "MoPar" hobby, require people will interest, people with some skill, and people with some money. All of those things are in fairly short supply, lately, and with kids having a greater interest in 4cyl/FWD, "tuners", than 8 cylinder torque monsters, the classic MoPar hobby is, sooner or later, going to become similar to those collectors and enthusiasts who specialize in Hudson's, Studes, Grahams, Essex, and Stuts.
Muscle Car guys are a smaller and smaller field, every year. MoPar guys are even a smaller group. It's just the natural cycle of things. Kids today, (with some exceptions) like what they know, and can afford, and a 2000 Civic, is much more affordable than a 67 Barracuda, and the kids know more about the Civic than they will ever know about the Barracuda, or want to know.
When I was a kid I was much more interested in the 1968 Roadrunner, than in my fathers 1951 Straight 8 Buick. TOday I'd die for either, but, that wasn't the case back then.
Marlabuck
Well-Known Member
Too much distraction via computers and cell phones and ipod this and ipod that ...I think the youngsters are always fast tracked to an instant fix and really do not have the patience to delve into these old cars...our children are in their 30's and yes they have always liked the old cars we have bought and restored but the grandkids in their teens could care less...they want BMW's and Toyota's...IMHO...Marla
I agree the hobby lacks a lot of younger people. That said, IMO, there are too many of all ages that just jump in with the checkbook and don't give a damn about anything else.
Not learning about the history of the hobby. Not caring about what lead up to the car you got. Not caring enough to even learn how to change your own oil. All that leads to things like $6K header installations. No offense meant to that member. He ran into a crooked shop. Still though, had he learned how and grabbed a wrench......
What we need are young people who actually care enough to learn about Don Garlits, Kenny Bernstein, Bob Glidden, Dick Landy, Tom Hoover and on and on and on and actually give a DAMN about where the hobby came from.
Far as I'm concerned, we could use to boot some people out of the hobby. Some people are only in it because the cars "look cool" or they want to flip something. We need people who actually give a ****. Everybody else can go to hell.
Not learning about the history of the hobby. Not caring about what lead up to the car you got. Not caring enough to even learn how to change your own oil. All that leads to things like $6K header installations. No offense meant to that member. He ran into a crooked shop. Still though, had he learned how and grabbed a wrench......
What we need are young people who actually care enough to learn about Don Garlits, Kenny Bernstein, Bob Glidden, Dick Landy, Tom Hoover and on and on and on and actually give a DAMN about where the hobby came from.
Far as I'm concerned, we could use to boot some people out of the hobby. Some people are only in it because the cars "look cool" or they want to flip something. We need people who actually give a ****. Everybody else can go to hell.
I think back to my high school days in the mid 60's. small town rural Ga. the town had maybe population of 1000? my h s class had 66! figure half boys, that's 30 odd kids. a few of us had jobs after school, sat. 2 kids bought new cars their senior year, 1966. they worked. a few other kids, me included, had hand me downs. old cars that ran but bout all. I remember just one kid that was a real gear head. if he could get his hands on any car, he took it apart! and tried to put it together! very few kids had any real interest in mechanic-ing.
yea, on a weekend maybe a car load of us would go to the drags/ just a fun trip, no real passion.
cars were mainly just a way to keep from walking. yea, I wanted a "fast" car. but Dad didn't. a cool car would have been a newish muscle type car. I worked after school, but it would not pay for everything, so I drove the hand me down 49 chevy. I guess what i'm saying is, back then in the car crazy 60's, there weren't that many kids that were really into cars!!??
so I really have to wonder if the percentage of kids into cars now is really any different?? like then, a car is a status symbol, and it keeps you from walking,.... lots of spoiled kids driving new ( or pretty new) cars to school. probably very few have after school/weekend jobs?.
I agree with a lot of what RRR says. but you see the same thing for a large part with all hobbies. seems like if people have fat checkbooks. one year they are into say, equine stuff, the next year they are skydivers, the next year they are dragracers!?? LOL
again, I think the interests/ passions in life are genetic!?? LOL example: you will find one kid that is horse crazy, her sister could care less! both were exposed in the same way.
yea, on a weekend maybe a car load of us would go to the drags/ just a fun trip, no real passion.
cars were mainly just a way to keep from walking. yea, I wanted a "fast" car. but Dad didn't. a cool car would have been a newish muscle type car. I worked after school, but it would not pay for everything, so I drove the hand me down 49 chevy. I guess what i'm saying is, back then in the car crazy 60's, there weren't that many kids that were really into cars!!??
so I really have to wonder if the percentage of kids into cars now is really any different?? like then, a car is a status symbol, and it keeps you from walking,.... lots of spoiled kids driving new ( or pretty new) cars to school. probably very few have after school/weekend jobs?.
I agree with a lot of what RRR says. but you see the same thing for a large part with all hobbies. seems like if people have fat checkbooks. one year they are into say, equine stuff, the next year they are skydivers, the next year they are dragracers!?? LOL
again, I think the interests/ passions in life are genetic!?? LOL example: you will find one kid that is horse crazy, her sister could care less! both were exposed in the same way.
Frankie
Member #9641
That "breed" is already gone. They were "seat of the pants" mechanics, who understood the results of things they tried, that led them to other things to try.
That mind set is gone. Some of us still have it, but even the, so called, Young guns" in this hobby, are dinosaurs.
Today, you literally "dial in" a car from a tablet or lap top, or smart phone. You don't "build HP", you buy it.
In fact, it's a pretty safe bet call Funny Car, and Top Fuel racers ( cars and people) Dinosaurs, too.
Ever notice the 20 somethings at the track? Pro mods, Pro Stock, or anything that's front wheel drive. They really enjoy the high-tech stuff.
doogievlg
Well-Known Member
In my case I didn't grow up a mopar fan. I grew up around fords mostly. The only mopar I came in contact with regularly was the 73 swinger that the janitor at my school had and I thought it was the ugliest thing ever. Now I own a 73 swinger and I love it and I would consider myself a mopar guy.
I think you guys are underestimating the young crowd. Yes some of them are great with computers and can free up horsepower on a computer but most of those guys can also turn a wrench. Go to any heads up race if you don't believe me. The stands are packed with young people who love good old fashion v8 power.
I would bet money that if anything there is more interest in hot rods and race cars now then there has been in the last twenty years. I mean these kids are seeing cars come off the showroom floor with stupid horsepower and they think "one day I'll have one of those". The only reason your not seeing more kids with the cars is simply the money. The modern muscle prices aren't helping at all.
In 1968 my grandpa bought a house for 20,000. The hellcats msrp of 60,000 would be about 9000 in 1970. Could any of you old timers imagine payying 9000 for a car back then? I understand the technology in these new cars is insane but imagine how many more mustangs and challengers and Cameros would be sold if they were priced more reasonably for a younger crowd. If you slap a 20,000 msrp on a new rwd v8 car you will have the muscle car era back in full swing. This 40,000 for a "muscle car" crap has me blowing steam out of my ears.
I think you guys are underestimating the young crowd. Yes some of them are great with computers and can free up horsepower on a computer but most of those guys can also turn a wrench. Go to any heads up race if you don't believe me. The stands are packed with young people who love good old fashion v8 power.
I would bet money that if anything there is more interest in hot rods and race cars now then there has been in the last twenty years. I mean these kids are seeing cars come off the showroom floor with stupid horsepower and they think "one day I'll have one of those". The only reason your not seeing more kids with the cars is simply the money. The modern muscle prices aren't helping at all.
In 1968 my grandpa bought a house for 20,000. The hellcats msrp of 60,000 would be about 9000 in 1970. Could any of you old timers imagine payying 9000 for a car back then? I understand the technology in these new cars is insane but imagine how many more mustangs and challengers and Cameros would be sold if they were priced more reasonably for a younger crowd. If you slap a 20,000 msrp on a new rwd v8 car you will have the muscle car era back in full swing. This 40,000 for a "muscle car" crap has me blowing steam out of my ears.
Like everyone else has said, these cars aren't affordable anymore. At least they're buying and driving some kind of cars and doing some work to them. A Body cars are still kind of affordable. Something that is encouraging to me is when I go to Carlilse every summer, the number of young people that are there looking and carrying parts around that they've bought.
I love going to Carlilse every year but sadly, its getting smaller every year.
I love going to Carlilse every year but sadly, its getting smaller every year.
I'm not underestimating a damn soul when I see kids that cannot read an analog clock, don't know who Daniel Boone was, or cannot read a road map.
The Nats getting smaller also. As our economy gets worse more people are staying home or enjoying local shows. I am planning on going to Carlisle this year for the first time. It's on my bucket list. Do we need to form more local Mopar clubs and hang out at the High Schools and Tech Schools for shows and the like? A few rides around the parking lot might get young people more interested. tmm
I respectfully disagree. Rare maybe, but certainly not gone.
doogievlg
Well-Known Member
Maybe that says more about the schools in Georgia then our nations youth. I am certian I can't name a single person that is older then 15 that can't do any of those things.
greymouser7
Vagrant Vagabond “Veni Vidi Vici”
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That's what I am doing. 77' Aspen build.
Some of the older members of the hobby do turn off the vibe though.
When I am excited because I see a 1974 Road Runner line up on the strip & all of the older hobbyists go on a tirade about those cars are not cool, not what they like, look un-appealing, etc. I think it was AbodyJoe that said something here about how anything after 1972 doesn't look cool. It's an off-putting attitude that younger people would hear as, 'don't bother me with your undesirable...'
<-THIS!
<-& THIS!
I always wondered why these never seemed to take-off with a larger following.
I am very glad that you are not. You a most appreciated friend, & a wealth of knowledge.
Opinions vary, but thanks. I value your friendship as well.
DaveBonds
Garage Trash
This is very true.
I love the aesthetics and function of cars. There are all kinds of cars that I like, from a lot of different companies and eras.
I fell in more with vintage Chrysler products, because of the tall deck and long rod design/ high torque and low piston play, as well as the styling cues and the rarity, when compared to the numbers seen in competing models.
I didn't have a dad around. I always found myself looking closer into researching what Chrysler products were, when I saw them, by chance and happened to find out that they were all mostly from the same manufacturer, so, naturally, I decided to pursue a car that I wanted.
This is a repeat offense. Kids just fix up whatever the hell they land on. I tossed three cars to the birds that were given to me, while I saved for my '68 and I've still got it, today.
I think the cars are just as affordable as they used to be. The only difference being that the high end cars are being eaten up by collectors, but lets get real, here, no high school kid has a wing car, unless they inherent.
Minimum wage had just been bumped to $5.15 an hour when I stared working a W2 job at 16. I had a worker's permit at 14 1/2, which was as young as they would let me have one and I had already been mowing lawns and doing other things for cash that I bought my bikes with, prior to wanting a car.
I worked for the $2,350 that I spent on my Charger, when I bought it. The guy came down from $3k, at the time. Nothing special. Just a 318 car, but I loved it.
Today, you could pick one up for about the same price to wage ratio, in the same condition, compared to what people make in minimum wages these days.
The problem is that saving money for a couple of years or working a skill set instead of trading hours for money, is almost impossible for most teenagers to swallow. After all, 2 years is half of their entire high school life. Not a single colleague that I went through school with, only with the exception of my best friend who went through auto body trade school with me, in the mornings, thought that I could hold out for what I wanted.
In turn, I didn't have a car during High School, but I didn't drive a fuckin Justy that was rotting apart, with a $2k stereo system in it, with stolen Pyle Driver speakers and a homemade box, either.
My priorities were screwball, according to most of my high school peers. I went to school 40 a week between HS and trade school and worked 30 a week. I didn't have a day off, unless I requested a saturday off about 3 weeks in advance for special nights, once every so often.
I didn't have a girlfriend, I didn't eat breakfast and I rode the bus and my bike up until I carpooled with my best friend. He bought insurance and I bought gas for his '67 Sport Fury survivor and I was happy.
I think teaching your kids how to save and how to do something trade worthy, so they can use their abilities to make money, instead of only trading time on a W2, is the most valuable lesson to teach them, in this hobby.
I went to trade school, because I was too poor to pay someone to paint my car... so I found a way around it. Nobody forced me to do anything, but with that said, it would have been nice to have someone around to learn from at a younger age, before I went to trade school and was around friend's parents who were into it.
michformulaS
Well-Known Member
I have an 8 year old. I bought a 1972 GMC fleetside shortbed 2wd when he was 2 weeks old for $900. I also have a 1992 Jeep YJ 4.0 auto I bought for $2000 a couple years later. Both of these are his. I will rebuild the GMC and he can help if he wants to in order to teach him basic mechanic skills. I picked this vehicle because parts are easy to find, cheap and it is all bolt together....I know it's not a Mopar but it is cool in my books and I will drive it until he is ready....I figured the Jeep will be his mod vehicle. I do have a 318 on the engine stand I hope he will use. I will keep my formula S 416 Barracuda for myself and my DD 2015 GT Mustang. He has to have something to work towards as well.
BlueDream
Aspiring Mopar enthusiast
I'm 20 and I wish more people of my generation were into old cars. Not just looking at them but actually working on them and driving them. One of my friends has a '70 Maverick and he uses it as his daily driver. It breaks ALL the time but he always fixes it or gives me a call and I help him learn how to fix it. Another friend has a '73 olds that he has big plans for (twin turbo LS3 with a 6 speed, just what all 16 year olds want right? lol) but he doesn't have the slightest idea of what it takes to build a car like that. Even though old cars are unreliable and expensive to build and maintain, I'm glad some young people do what they can to learn about them and get involved hands on with them. I help my friends out every chance I get, trying to teach them how to work on their cars and to share all the things I've learned while working on mine.
I grew up with my car and it was given to me when I was 9. I started working on it when I was 16 and I didn't even have a job. I started small and did what I could, when I could do it. New battery one month, new fuel pump and plugs the next. I had it running in a couple months with no mechanic skills and a very basic knowledge of how an engine worked. I get just as much pleasure learning about how things work as I get applying that knowledge to something practical. I often spend my nights watching videos on engine building and reading threads on here just trying to soak up everything I can because I know i'll need it someday.
While a lot of people my age are out partying and having fun, I'm either at home doing homework or at work, and collecting engine parts. I've got the parts to build a 340 long block sitting in my bedroom and i'm trying to get it ready for assembly during spring break, only have a couple small things left to get. As nice as it is to go to car shows and see other peoples rides, I'd rather be there with my own car that I built. I got to take my Dart to it's first parade and car show back in August and it was so cool to see people asking questions about MY car and commenting on how much they liked it. "What year is it? I like it!" "Oh it's a 1973, my grandpa bought it new and I've been restoring it." "What's the engine?" "It's a 318 I built myself but it came with a slant six from the factory" "And how old are you?" "19 (at the time)". There's a big sense of accomplishment in working hard and building a car like this especially since I had to learn how to do everything as I did it. I spent about a month doing body work every day after work and on the weekends so I could paint it. It took me over a year to get the 318 built and in the car because I didn't have a lot of money to throw at it. For about six months I had new Cragar S/S wheels and new tires up front but still had the old 14" keystones with 205/74r14 tires out back because I couldn't afford the rear tires yet. Every paycheck I've gotten for the past 3 years has contributed to this build in one way or another. So while It's not easy, it's definitely doable to build a car while young and not making a lot of money.
Even though there aren't a ton of young people in this hobby, we are out there. I've found Mopar people to be more accepting of younger folks than Chevy or Ford guys. I was talking to a guy that had a 572 Hemi belvedere and we chatted for a solid 20 minutes and he fired up his car for me and opened up the dumps, it was awesome to hear that big Hemi roar to life. I also got to take a ride in a 408 Dart which was FUN and I'll never forget it. Then one time I saw this guy that had a turbocharged chevy powered Mustang and the guy was a total prick... It's really encouraging when old timers are nice to the young guys. After all, we're going to be the ones taking care of these classic cars years down the road and we need to know the ins and outs of working on them.
Kind of long winded I know but thats what forums are for right? To talk about stuff and what not. Even though I'm young I try to do what I can to get other people involved in the hobby and I'm always trying to learn something new. Old cars are cool and I love working on them :glasses7:
I grew up with my car and it was given to me when I was 9. I started working on it when I was 16 and I didn't even have a job. I started small and did what I could, when I could do it. New battery one month, new fuel pump and plugs the next. I had it running in a couple months with no mechanic skills and a very basic knowledge of how an engine worked. I get just as much pleasure learning about how things work as I get applying that knowledge to something practical. I often spend my nights watching videos on engine building and reading threads on here just trying to soak up everything I can because I know i'll need it someday.
While a lot of people my age are out partying and having fun, I'm either at home doing homework or at work, and collecting engine parts. I've got the parts to build a 340 long block sitting in my bedroom and i'm trying to get it ready for assembly during spring break, only have a couple small things left to get. As nice as it is to go to car shows and see other peoples rides, I'd rather be there with my own car that I built. I got to take my Dart to it's first parade and car show back in August and it was so cool to see people asking questions about MY car and commenting on how much they liked it. "What year is it? I like it!" "Oh it's a 1973, my grandpa bought it new and I've been restoring it." "What's the engine?" "It's a 318 I built myself but it came with a slant six from the factory" "And how old are you?" "19 (at the time)". There's a big sense of accomplishment in working hard and building a car like this especially since I had to learn how to do everything as I did it. I spent about a month doing body work every day after work and on the weekends so I could paint it. It took me over a year to get the 318 built and in the car because I didn't have a lot of money to throw at it. For about six months I had new Cragar S/S wheels and new tires up front but still had the old 14" keystones with 205/74r14 tires out back because I couldn't afford the rear tires yet. Every paycheck I've gotten for the past 3 years has contributed to this build in one way or another. So while It's not easy, it's definitely doable to build a car while young and not making a lot of money.
Even though there aren't a ton of young people in this hobby, we are out there. I've found Mopar people to be more accepting of younger folks than Chevy or Ford guys. I was talking to a guy that had a 572 Hemi belvedere and we chatted for a solid 20 minutes and he fired up his car for me and opened up the dumps, it was awesome to hear that big Hemi roar to life. I also got to take a ride in a 408 Dart which was FUN and I'll never forget it. Then one time I saw this guy that had a turbocharged chevy powered Mustang and the guy was a total prick... It's really encouraging when old timers are nice to the young guys. After all, we're going to be the ones taking care of these classic cars years down the road and we need to know the ins and outs of working on them.
Kind of long winded I know but thats what forums are for right? To talk about stuff and what not. Even though I'm young I try to do what I can to get other people involved in the hobby and I'm always trying to learn something new. Old cars are cool and I love working on them :glasses7:
DaveBonds
Garage Trash
I disagree that old cars are unreliable. They are much easier and less expensive to work on, than a new car.
Think a mopar is expensive to throw parts at? Have you priced out a replacement engine for a Prius? They CONSTANTLY fail, because they are run cold all the time, even with the thermo-engineered coolant system that retains temp. Shutting the engine off and turning it back on constantly gives the engines a low life expectancy.
Have you priced out a transmission for a BMW mini? You can't buy parts for them. Dealerships black-box the entire units and send them back to BMW. They constantly throw 2nd gear.
New cars require maintenance intervals for a reason. That cheap timing belt needs to be replaced with the water pump and sometimes other geared components that are driven off of the cog belt. New cars are made to trade in. The average new car travels through at least six owners before being paid off.
The average hybrids are so expensive now, that gasoline would have to approach $8 per gallon for them to make sense, for the amount of milage you will get out of the drivetrain and battery, before getting hit with expensive components, like a short block assembly.
Gas is only a small part of your driving expense if you are taking on payments. So what if you spent $200 a month on gas. Most new SUV and car payments start at $350-400 a month and go up. You save $80 on gas per month with them? Wee. You just blew $480-$580 to drive a new Honda SUV for ONE month.
Want a new truck? Most start at $45k and go up. A STRIPPED Suburban on Chevy.com, will run you just under $50k, for a 2wd. A mortgage contract on a new Suburban will run you $520 a month in payments... for 8 years! My boss is paying $1400 a month for a new Sierra 4x4 with some options, because he can pay it off on 3 years.
I don't want to hear about how old cars are expensive. EVERYTHING is expensive, now.
Think a mopar is expensive to throw parts at? Have you priced out a replacement engine for a Prius? They CONSTANTLY fail, because they are run cold all the time, even with the thermo-engineered coolant system that retains temp. Shutting the engine off and turning it back on constantly gives the engines a low life expectancy.
Have you priced out a transmission for a BMW mini? You can't buy parts for them. Dealerships black-box the entire units and send them back to BMW. They constantly throw 2nd gear.
New cars require maintenance intervals for a reason. That cheap timing belt needs to be replaced with the water pump and sometimes other geared components that are driven off of the cog belt. New cars are made to trade in. The average new car travels through at least six owners before being paid off.
The average hybrids are so expensive now, that gasoline would have to approach $8 per gallon for them to make sense, for the amount of milage you will get out of the drivetrain and battery, before getting hit with expensive components, like a short block assembly.
Gas is only a small part of your driving expense if you are taking on payments. So what if you spent $200 a month on gas. Most new SUV and car payments start at $350-400 a month and go up. You save $80 on gas per month with them? Wee. You just blew $480-$580 to drive a new Honda SUV for ONE month.
Want a new truck? Most start at $45k and go up. A STRIPPED Suburban on Chevy.com, will run you just under $50k, for a 2wd. A mortgage contract on a new Suburban will run you $520 a month in payments... for 8 years! My boss is paying $1400 a month for a new Sierra 4x4 with some options, because he can pay it off on 3 years.
I don't want to hear about how old cars are expensive. EVERYTHING is expensive, now.
ssba
Well-Known Member
I don't want to hear about how old cars are expensive. EVERYTHING is expensive, now.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.
When I started out with the mopars they were cheap old cars. I would fix them up as cheap
as I could and had a lot of fun using them as daily drivers at the same time.
As I got older I do spend more on them than I did then. If I wanted to I could still put together
a cheap Mopar and drive the wheels off it. But now I buy parts that I couldn't afford back then.
This is how they get to be expensive. Hemis, sixpacks, 18 spline 4-speeds and Dana's.
If I would just go back to how I did it when I was young it would still be cheaper than buying a newer used car.
Use a running 440 take out engine, Put it in a cheap dart body. Get a used set of wheels and
some fresh tires.
I have almost talked myself into moparing like this again just while typing this.
Trying to make them perfect, like new or valuble cost. Driving them not so much.
Building mopars as the young without much of a budget sounds good about now.
I'd like to go back myself.
I agree with this.
When I started out with the mopars they were cheap old cars. I would fix them up as cheap
as I could and had a lot of fun using them as daily drivers at the same time.
As I got older I do spend more on them than I did then. If I wanted to I could still put together
a cheap Mopar and drive the wheels off it. But now I buy parts that I couldn't afford back then.
This is how they get to be expensive. Hemis, sixpacks, 18 spline 4-speeds and Dana's.
If I would just go back to how I did it when I was young it would still be cheaper than buying a newer used car.
Use a running 440 take out engine, Put it in a cheap dart body. Get a used set of wheels and
some fresh tires.
I have almost talked myself into moparing like this again just while typing this.
Trying to make them perfect, like new or valuble cost. Driving them not so much.
Building mopars as the young without much of a budget sounds good about now.
I'd like to go back myself.
I LOVE those parts sitting i n Blue Dreams bedroom floor!! LOL
I congratulate the young person that has the drive to work on an old car, to make it his means of transportation, and not wait for someone to provide it for him!
yes, everything is expensive! and not going to hardly get cheaper? new vehicles? they never have been anything but an expense. payments, high insurance, taxes, ... people that have the income to go out and pay as much for a new car or truck as what it used to cost for a home!? nuts! then find out it is just a throw away vehicle. designed to use up and throw away.
lets face it. our old cars are vehicles anyone with a little mechanical instinct can learn to work on. in general, parts for these old cars are way cheaper than parts for newer stuff. if under a budget, common sense goes a long way. get the car driving, s afe, and dependable. no need to spend $$ on making it faster until its affordable. fancy wheels. ??? maybe learn to fix the rust first?
when I drag home a project I have a system. first, make a list of any missing parts to be on the lookout for. ( parts are cheaper when your not in a hurry!)..always best to buy a complete project. if not running, get it running and see what I have for a drivetrain. always best to buy a running car so you know what you are buying.. if I paid $400 for it, I don't expect it to run. if I paid $800-1000 for it.
yes I do.
then make it a driver. brakes, u joints, radiator, decent tires, exhaust. is the front suspension safe??? a certain expense here, but lets say exhaust. it goes to local country garage where they bend their pipes. no ordering the pre bent stuff from ??. budget? muffler? does it have to have an $80 muffler????NO
engine? I as talking to older guy like myself out in okla other day. he has pretty decent collection of cars ( keepers). he never has in his 40 years in the salvage business had an engine rebuilt. he always found a decent engine. . nice to have a fresh engine with all new stuff, maybe upgraded to have some more power, necessary? NO
interior? a decent front seat. the rest is fluff! door panels, a luxury. headliner? clean the metal and spray a layer of body schultz on it. later when affordable, interior??
paint? learn to fabricate and use patch panels. get the body solid, get it to bare metal and self etch, epoxy primer. seal it. you learn how and do it.
like the other guy said, ..... young people, don't just learn to trade your time for $$, learn to do things, learn what could become a trade if you want, learn to do these things yourself, and not just figure one day, you will get take the car to the pro and pay him big bucks to do it>
drive it!!!
this was rant from old mopar fart.
I congratulate the young person that has the drive to work on an old car, to make it his means of transportation, and not wait for someone to provide it for him!
yes, everything is expensive! and not going to hardly get cheaper? new vehicles? they never have been anything but an expense. payments, high insurance, taxes, ... people that have the income to go out and pay as much for a new car or truck as what it used to cost for a home!? nuts! then find out it is just a throw away vehicle. designed to use up and throw away.
lets face it. our old cars are vehicles anyone with a little mechanical instinct can learn to work on. in general, parts for these old cars are way cheaper than parts for newer stuff. if under a budget, common sense goes a long way. get the car driving, s afe, and dependable. no need to spend $$ on making it faster until its affordable. fancy wheels. ??? maybe learn to fix the rust first?
when I drag home a project I have a system. first, make a list of any missing parts to be on the lookout for. ( parts are cheaper when your not in a hurry!)..always best to buy a complete project. if not running, get it running and see what I have for a drivetrain. always best to buy a running car so you know what you are buying.. if I paid $400 for it, I don't expect it to run. if I paid $800-1000 for it.
yes I do.
then make it a driver. brakes, u joints, radiator, decent tires, exhaust. is the front suspension safe??? a certain expense here, but lets say exhaust. it goes to local country garage where they bend their pipes. no ordering the pre bent stuff from ??. budget? muffler? does it have to have an $80 muffler????NO
engine? I as talking to older guy like myself out in okla other day. he has pretty decent collection of cars ( keepers). he never has in his 40 years in the salvage business had an engine rebuilt. he always found a decent engine. . nice to have a fresh engine with all new stuff, maybe upgraded to have some more power, necessary? NO
interior? a decent front seat. the rest is fluff! door panels, a luxury. headliner? clean the metal and spray a layer of body schultz on it. later when affordable, interior??
paint? learn to fabricate and use patch panels. get the body solid, get it to bare metal and self etch, epoxy primer. seal it. you learn how and do it.
like the other guy said, ..... young people, don't just learn to trade your time for $$, learn to do things, learn what could become a trade if you want, learn to do these things yourself, and not just figure one day, you will get take the car to the pro and pay him big bucks to do it>
drive it!!!
this was rant from old mopar fart.
hughesboysvaliant
Well-Known Member
I built my little 67 Valiant as a way to connect with my kids. We done almost all of it ourselves and on the cheap. My kids are of that gaming generation as most are today, but if fathers will make the effort sons will follow them to the garage. I know the cost of stuff is high but the cost of not getting your kids out and teaching them something is even higher. Mopar Muscle Mag done a little story about me and my boys building our little car in the Aprils issue.
http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured/1504-1967-plymouth-valiant-a-tale-of-four-rookies/
The guys at MM done the story about me and my kids and our car because of what this thread is talking about. They want to show that the hobby is not only for guys that have deep pockets but regular folks.
http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured/1504-1967-plymouth-valiant-a-tale-of-four-rookies/
The guys at MM done the story about me and my kids and our car because of what this thread is talking about. They want to show that the hobby is not only for guys that have deep pockets but regular folks.
Not in every case. My son is living proof.
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