Cleanup turns to mess up. Need some help troubleshooting.

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YoungDart75

YoungDart75

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Soooo this whole thing started after i had recently tuned the car up and she was running good. Looked terrible but she fired up everytime and was running fine. The broken hose is the one from the vapor cannister to the connection on the carb. hose was dry rotted so i replaced it.

I took pictures of everything and labeled everything as I separated it. No real issues with the exception of two broken bolts that ran from the intake to the exhaust manifold. But i got those removed and got new ones installed after repaint. I got her all put back together today. I replaced the spacer between the carb, intake/exhaust manifold gasket, valve cover gasket, pcv, air breather and oil cap during the process as well. I reconnected everything just as i took it apart. I didnt noticed quite a bit of fuel that came out of the carb as I turned it during removal though.



After snugging everything down she fired up at the first turn of the key and ran like normal for about 20 secs. After that she died and has started up again since. Im assuming this is a fuel issue. Either too much or too little. I tried putting the peddle to the floor then letting off and trying to turn it over thinking maybe the bowls were empty in the carb or something but that didnt help anything. She just spins and spins. The coil/cap/rotor/plugs/wires were never touched. Ive been tracing all my lines that i disconnected during tear down to make sure everything is good and havent found any discrepencies. Im assuming its something to do with the carb setup on the car. I noticed after trying to start it for 10 secs or so that you can hear it/see it still putting fuel in the carb with the ignition off and key removed. I also noticed some fuel around the base of the carb where the spacer is at the intake manifold/ and down where the preheater hose connection is. Like its leaking out of the carb somewhere.

I know it alot to read, but if anyone can help me out id appreciate it because right now it looks great but doesnt run anymore. Thankyou in advance.
 
Should i go back and disconnect all the grounding cables/clean the surfaces and then see if maybe its not grounded well enough anymore? Dont know if its as big an issues on these motors.
 
Can you see the fuel pulse in the filter? Try feeding the cardb a little gas and then crank it. If it fires you know its a no fuel issue. Maybe a stuck float. stuck up when you turned it upside down. Not letting fuel in the bowl.
 
Pull your plugs maybe, they may be fowled very bad with all the gas that went to them and did not fire..
 
in the first picture there is a large vacuum hose which runs from right to left across the valve cover and passes just above the coil

it should go to the fuel pump no?
 
Look down the carb throat while working the throttle and see if you have any pump shot of gas. Make sure your choke is set up right. Tap on the float bowl to make sure it isn't stuck. Grounds are very important as well and need to be bare metal on metal. Looks great by the way
 
diymirage said:
in the first picture there is a large vacuum hose which runs from right to left across the valve cover and passes just above the coil

it should go to the fuel pump no?
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That should be just a vent I believe. In your first picture it's just an open connection. The line just below that with the filter in it goes to the fuel pump.
 
At this point just a guess, but since it ran once after emptying the carb, it's probably getting too much fuel now. When you turned the carb upside down, sediment from the bowl might have gotten in the needle valve and now it won't close, causing the engine to flood after running for a few seconds.
 
This is my first carburetor can so its new to me. Where exactly doni need to add the fuel in to try and fill the bowls back up?
 
YoungDart75 said:
This is my first carburetor can so its new to me. Where exactly doni need to add the fuel in to try and fill the bowls back up?
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Is it out of gas? Did you read my post up there? You should not have to pour gas anywhere if the pump and filter are good. If there is crap between the needle and seat you are gonna have to clean it out
 
"I noticed after trying to start it for 10 secs or so that you can hear it/see it still putting fuel in the carb with the ignition off and key removed. I also noticed some fuel around the base of the carb where the spacer is at the intake manifold/ and down where the preheater hose connection is. Like its leaking out of the carb somewhere."

The above is not normal at all. As posted in #9, the carb is flooding if you still see gas running into it after cranking for 10 seconds and out of the base. The carb appears to be getting plenty of fuel but is likely flooding. As noted, it may have the needle valve stuck open.

Do this:
1) Just look at the fuel filter. The way it is oriented, it should be full if the pump is working
2) If you want to be sure the pump is working, then take the fuel hose off the carb, direct it into a container and crank for a few seconds while watching. It ought to pump out 1/2 to 1 quart in 30 seconds. It will really spurt out if the pump is working well so be careful.
3) Prop the throttle wide open and make sure the choke butterfly at the top is propped open. Let the car set for an hour so that the excess gas is out of engine. By hand work the throttle one time to full open and then release. The choke butterfly at the top should be closed.
4) Start the car and look real quick; the choke butterfly should have opened slightly at the top. Then use a screwdriver and push the choke butterfly open a bit and see if it will stay running or die.
5) If the carb keeps leaking gas and dieing due to excess gas, then you may have to take the top of the carb off to get at the needle valve and float. But, you may be able to pull out the needle valve and clean it by removing the brass nut on the top of the carb where you connect in the fuel line.
 
And pull three or four plugs and change them for new or clean them set gap (gas fouled them out and will not fire) this way it will have a chance to fire up.. it just will not start with fouled plugs .
 
I might be tempted to spray a shot of ether down the carb to see if does ANYTHING at all. If not, then I would start thinking electrical or ignition. Ballast resistor? Ignition feed to the coil? A wire bumped loose at the bulkhead connector? You spent a lot of time under the hood to do all this work, is it possible something was knocked loose?
 
73AbodEE said:
Is it out of gas? Did you read my post up there? You should not have to pour gas anywhere if the pump and filter are good. If there is crap between the needle and seat you are gonna have to clean it out
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The pump was just replaced and was working fine, the filter has fuel up to almost the top of the filter. I can visually see the fuel pumping into the carb after I turn the key back off and open the top of the carb. I can see it and hear it constantly flowing through the carb and into the intake after I turn the key off.


nm9stheham said:
"I noticed after trying to start it for 10 secs or so that you can hear it/see it still putting fuel in the carb with the ignition off and key removed. I also noticed some fuel around the base of the carb where the spacer is at the intake manifold/ and down where the preheater hose connection is. Like its leaking out of the carb somewhere."

The above is not normal at all. As posted in #9, the carb is flooding if you still see gas running into it after cranking for 10 seconds and out of the base. The carb appears to be getting plenty of fuel but is likely flooding. As noted, it may have the needle valve stuck open.

Do this:
1) Just look at the fuel filter. The way it is oriented, it should be full if the pump is working
2) If you want to be sure the pump is working, then take the fuel hose off the carb, direct it into a container and crank for a few seconds while watching. It ought to pump out 1/2 to 1 quart in 30 seconds. It will really spurt out if the pump is working well so be careful.
3) Prop the throttle wide open and make sure the choke butterfly at the top is propped open. Let the car set for an hour so that the excess gas is out of engine. By hand work the throttle one time to full open and then release. The choke butterfly at the top should be closed.
4) Start the car and look real quick; the choke butterfly should have opened slightly at the top. Then use a screwdriver and push the choke butterfly open a bit and see if it will stay running or die.
5) If the carb keeps leaking gas and dying due to excess gas, then you may have to take the top of the carb off to get at the needle valve and float. But, you may be able to pull out the needle valve and clean it by removing the brass nut on the top of the carb where you connect in the fuel line.
Click to expand...

I'm doubting that is isn't getting fuel. I'm leaning more towards it getting way too much fuel based off of it pouring in so much when trying to start/after turning the key off and still visually seeing/hearing it flowing into the carb. Never pulled a carb apart before, so this will be something new for me. I've been looking through the service manual on disassembly of the carb, basically just follow the steps in there for removal of the top of the carb. Will I have to remove the carb from the motor again or just pull the top off while its still on the car?

memike said:
And pull three or four plugs and change them for new or clean them set gap (gas fouled them out and will not fire) this way it will have a chance to fire up.. it just will not start with fouled plugs .
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I plan on pulling them today to at least give them a look over and see what's what.
 
mopardude62 said:
I might be tempted to spray a shot of ether down the carb to see if does ANYTHING at all. If not, then I would start thinking electrical or ignition. Ballast resistor? Ignition feed to the coil? A wire bumped loose at the bulkhead connector? You spent a lot of time under the hood to do all this work, is it possible something was knocked loose?
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I've been looking over everything and I haven't come up with anything that isn't reconnected where its supposed to be.
 
YoungDart75 said:
I've been looking over everything and I haven't come up with anything that isn't reconnected where its supposed to be.
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Have you pulled a spark plug yet ? Gas soaked plugs will not fire, another thing I have not seen you post, Have you pulled a plug wire off a spark plug and seen if it is firing ?
 
memike said:
Have you pulled a spark plug yet ? Gas soaked plugs will not fire, another thing I have not seen you post, Have you pulled a plug wire off a spark plug and seen if it is firing ?
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I haven't pulled it yet because it fired up and ran just fine, as well as I didn't touch anything on that side of the motor throughout this whole process with the exception of pulling the valve cover.
 
YoungDart75 said:
I haven't pulled it yet because it fired up and ran just fine, as well as I didn't touch anything on that side of the motor throughout this whole process with the exception of pulling the valve cover.
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I hope someone jumps in here and backs me up on this, These low compression engines will not fire on gas fouled plugs, and it sounds like a bunch of gas dumped in on top of this first fire up :glasses7: I have been here many many times ! and they just will not fire.. Just pull a couple plugs and take a look at them, I bet they smell of gas :glasses7: and bad..
 
I know I plan on pulling them this afternoon. I just haven't pulled them yet. I haven't pulled the wires to check for spark because it fired up just fine the first time. Even if I fix the float issue, it still wont fire up on fouled plugs. I'm not saying your wrong by any means. After it ran the first time is when all this fuel would have been dumped on them causing them to foul out. They will all be pulled and swapped out tonight before I mess with the float. I just haven't gotten to it yet because this all happened later last night and the navy doesn't give me days off to go play with my toy.
 
YoungDart75 said:
I know I plan on pulling them this afternoon. I just haven't pulled them yet. I haven't pulled the wires to check for spark because it fired up just fine the first time. Even if I fix the float issue, it still wont fire up on fouled plugs. I'm not saying your wrong by any means. After it ran the first time is when all this fuel would have been dumped on them causing them to foul out. They will all be pulled and swapped out tonight before I mess with the float. I just haven't gotten to it yet because this all happened later last night and the navy doesn't give me days off to go play with my toy.
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:glasses7: I got yea sir :color: I have driven my /6 for 6 years and had it hit by lightning and had to rewire all the ignition, service it and learned allot over the years, you sure did a great job cleaning your engine up :cheers: , Thank you for your service and I hope to see some good news soon in this thread :color:

My daily driver for 6 years after I pull the 1 barrel off and intake up , 30.000 miles on this little 170/6 :glasses7:

I am by no means a great tech here, many great techs have helped me threw the years.
 

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If you can see fuel shooting out of the squirters I'm going to say it is either flooding or you are losing spark after it starts.
 
I had a discussion with my dad regarding trying to reset the float. He recommended giving the carb a little tap to try and get it to reset if not then pull the top of the carb.
 
It doesn't take long at all to pull a few plugs out. That's the first place I'd check. Spark plugs can tell you a lot about what's going on inside an engine.
 
That's what I'm starting with when I get home. Plus it'll help get any other left over vapors out of there while I'm messing with the Carb.
 
Just pulled #4-6 plugs and they all smell of fuel so gonna pull the rest and clean em up and let it air ok a little more and address the carb issue. Now looking for the easiest way to tackle that.
 
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