steel shim head gasket

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RustyPlymouth

RustyPlymouth

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anyone used one without doing anything special to the head or deck? i popped the head gasket in my slant and have a couple of these. thinking about using one but dont wanna put in all the time and effort if its just going to waste it.
 
The factory used them by the millions. "I" like to use copper coat on them, but some people put them on dry. They also require re-torque of the head bolts after break in.
 
.............I've used them on sbd and bbd with no problems.....be sure to spray paint it ur favorite color...........kim....old school'ers always preferred silver for some odd reason
 
ok. are you serious about the spray paint. lol. i cant tell if you are kidding or not. i would assume it would help seal the water passages...

was planning on using copper coat and some rtv with it along the lifter galley and maybe around the water passages. good call on the re-torque.
 
Copper coat is a sealer/adhesive.

I do not think the factory used it originally. Why would we believe that a re-tourque is required?

Curious!
 
All steel shim gaskets require re torque of the head bolts.

Also, do NOT use RTV on a head gasket. Ever.
 
Rob,

Did the factory retorque them prior to delivery? Copper coat is a great addition.

I understand good practice but where does this suggestion come from?
 
When I installed steel shim head gaskets on my 273, I took a copper wire and used epoxy to attach it to a groove in the gasket that circled the cylinder bore, overlapping it on the ends a tiny amount. Upon dis-assembly later, the copper wire had crushed perfectly around the bore and seemed to have provided the same benefit as if the block/or head had been grooved for the wire. I found this trick mentioned is a hot rodder's magazine from back in the '70s. Also used the copper coat and retorque as suggested above.
 
1969383S said:
Rob,

Did the factory retorque them prior to delivery? Copper coat is a great addition.

I understand good practice but where does this suggestion come from?
Click to expand...

Read it in most every hot rod mag growing up. Came out of the mouths of every good mechanic I ever knew and still know. No, I have no clue if the factory did it or not. I was not there. I know I do it and I always will. Every time I have gone back to re torque on steel gaskets, I got a little more on the bolts. Every. Single. Time. So that's enough for me.

This is straight from the SCE gasket site:

"•Do you recommend a re-torque on head gaskets? •All racing and performance head gaskets should be re-torqued. Since many of our customers operate in the extreme conditions of Racing and High Performance, SCE recommends a re-torque in these applications"

It can be found here, about two thirds down the page.

http://scegaskets.com/wp_super_faq/whats-what-the-facts-of-gasket-materials/
 
Good read Rob.

I have never retorqed them.

Used the felpo blues with twin 150 shots and never had an issue. Used plenty of steel shim with copper coat on base motors and never had an issue. Suppose it is good practice to revisit, certainly in a race application!
 
"Race or performance" was the quote from the SCE site. I don't know anyone here that's built a stone stock engine.
 
RustyRatRod said:
All steel shim gaskets require re torque of the head bolts.

Also, do NOT use RTV on a head gasket. Ever.
Click to expand...

i get what you are saying about the rtv. but this is a slant and not a sb. there are no bolts on the outside of the lifter galley. composite head gaskets like the one i have in there now leak so its almost certain that a steel shim gasket will definitely leak. gonna go ahead and rtv at the very least the outside lip of the lifter galley. i hate leaking oil.
 
dibbons said:
When I installed steel shim head gaskets on my 273, I took a copper wire and used epoxy to attach it to a groove in the gasket that circled the cylinder bore, overlapping it on the ends a tiny amount. Upon dis-assembly later, the copper wire had crushed perfectly around the bore and seemed to have provided the same benefit as if the block/or head had been grooved for the wire. I found this trick mentioned is a hot rodder's magazine from back in the '70s. Also used the copper coat and retorque as suggested above.
Click to expand...

now you got me thinking. was the epoxy just to hold it in place when you put it all together? what did that look like when you took it all back apart. was there anything left of it? i dont want it coming off and going through my turbo. also, where did you get the wire? was it specific for that purpose or just regular wire? do you recall the size?
 
also. this is not a racing head gasket. its a stock factory replacement. the same thing that they would have put on when they put the engine together the first time.
 
RustyPlymouth said:
also. this is not a racing head gasket. its a stock factory replacement. the same thing that they would have put on when they put the engine together the first time.
Click to expand...

we used to use steel shim head gaskets on the hemi, never retorqued them in 14 yrs of racing it. not supposed to have to retorque mls either. chysler made some head gasket sealer that we used on them at the time. don`t know about the /6 tho.
 
I just did my slant 6 with the steel shim gasket and did use KopperKote and re-torqued too. FSM said to do so. No leaks on the lifter gallery; the head was surfaced and the block checked for straightness and found OK.

Re-torquing is an old habit from building engines for me. My '62 FSM does not mention re-torquing, but I did it anyway. Found that all of the marginally loose ones were on the lower row of head bolts; not sure why.

For the OP, if you are getting leaks with the composite gasket, I would suspect warpage in the head and possibly the block. I personally would not use the shim gasket without surfacing the head and making sure the block is surface or is straight. No problem with using the RTV on the lifter gallery side, but it won't hold as well as KopperKote or Permatex #2.

With turbo-ing; the lower CR with the thicker composite gasket might be of benefit to you. But I don't know where you are at with boost, etc.
 
To answer the question about epoxy on the copper wire, it was used only to keep the wire from slipping out of the groove during installation. I don't remember the diameter of the copper wire, but copper wire is probably not specific to using in automobile motors, I believe as long as the wire is real copper and the correct diameter it should work. Upon disassembly, the copper wire was all there, still looked like new and none of it went anywhere because it was crushed solid between the block and cylinder head. I did make clean up milling surface cuts on both the block and cylinder heads during blueprinting to insure perfectly warp free surfaces.
 
here is my 2 cents worth

I always re torque my heads because of bolt stretch due to abuse and heat/cool cycles, and the fact that I am not using torque to yield bolts . Those are the ones that you pull down to 50 # then tighten another 180 degrees. the bolt stretch is figured in on these bolts and you never reuse or retorque them

as for sealer I have used a variety of sealers with no problem as long as I have retorqued them, same goes with O-ringing with copper (I use stainless steel wire )

besides retorqueing can't hurt
 
steel shim gaskets crush and then they are done. if you reinstall them, they need the copper coat or silver paint or whatever. The retorque on a shim gasket is the bolt stretch as you cant compress a steel shim once its used, as its flattened from the first torque. Composite gaskets or modern style sometimes say retorque hot but the Felpro no-retorque are crush style around the cylinders (fire ring). My Mazda says retorque at every valve adjustment (6,000m).
 
thank you all for the input. i think im gonna go get another regular fel pro head gasket. i dont have the money or desire to tear everything down far enough to take it to a machine shop to have the surfaces trued up.

running 20psi. was fine. changed carbs and was working on the tune and it got away from me. ill turn the boost down to finish the tuning. then back up to what ever the rotating assembly can take.
 
i was thinking that too. ill have to pick up a can. i still have to pull it apart and make sure it is the head gasket and not a hole in the piston.
 
OUTLAW said:
here is my 2 cents worth

I always re torque my heads because of bolt stretch due to abuse and heat/cool cycles, and the fact that I am not using torque to yield bolts . Those are the ones that you pull down to 50 # then tighten another 180 degrees. the bolt stretch is figured in on these bolts and you never reuse or retorque them

as for sealer I have used a variety of sealers with no problem as long as I have retorqued them, same goes with O-ringing with copper (I use stainless steel wire )

besides retorqueing can't hurt
Click to expand...

why stainless instead of copper?
 
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