No power to starter relay.

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sargentrs

sargentrs

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Gaaaahhhhh! I hate bulkhead connectors. Just got my tyranny rebuilt and drove her home from the shop. Pulled in the driveway to check the fluid and everything was fine. Killed her, went in the house for a cold drink, feeling good about life and my wonderful Dart. Went to start her up and park her in her designated spot and ignition was totally dead. Pulled out the DVM and started checking. All good at the battery and constant hot on starter relay. All good with switch in on/run position. Zilch to start circuit. Turn key to on, jump across starter and she runs. Jump at relay and she runs. Had a new relay so replaced it, still nothing. Crawled under dash and checked at harnesses plugs and wires to/from ignition. All good going to switch and from switch to inside bulkhead connector. Squat at starter relay circuit, yellow and yellow/brown wires. Colors of wires and '73 wiring diagram aren't matching up on my '74. Center bulkhead connector, engine side of firewall, driver's side top terminal appears to be run circuit, hot with key on, no power with key off, dark blue or black wire. Right under that, 2 wires (yellow or brown?) use same terminal. Is this the start/run circuit to the relay? I really don't want to cut open the harness tape to trace from the relay. Can't get my big arse under the dash with a flashlight and both hands, and bad eyes, to get to the top wires to test inside connection. Suggestions? Any and all input is appreciated!
 
P.S. Already did the MADelectrical bypass due to other bulkhead issues. Alternator is run straight to starter relay too. Been fine for months and now all of a sudden....
 
Did you check for ground in park or neutral at the starter relay ground terminal? Yellow is usually the trigger to the relay +12v. Brown or brown /yellow trace grounds the relay in park or neutral assuming auto trans.

Sounds like the linkage is not right or the plug on the nss fell off.
 
Just hit me that you have an auto. Check your NSS plug or linkage. If it ran when you picked it up then it is a simple issue.

We are not far from each other, we should meet sometime. Are you a member if NGM?
 
1969383S said:
Did you check for ground in park or neutral at the starter relay ground terminal? Yellow is usually the trigger to the relay +12v. Brown or brown /yellow trace grounds the relay in park or neutral assuming auto trans.

Sounds like the linkage is not right or the plug on the nss fell off.
Click to expand...
Checked the harness plug, at firewall behind the valve cover, but didn't think about crawling under and checking the plug at the NSS. I have no power to yellow at starter relay with ignition start. If I ground that brown terminal on the relay to chassis ground would that be a good test of the ground circuit from the NSS? I.e.. If I ground that terminal and it starts, my NSS circuit is the problem? Forgive my dumbness, electrical is a weakness of mine. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
 
1969383S said:
Just hit me that you have an auto. Check your NSS plug or linkage. If it ran when you picked it up then it is a simple issue.

We are not far from each other, we should meet sometime. Are you a member if NGM?
Click to expand...
My wife works at the hospital in Cumming. I work in Alpharetta, off Hwy 9 near McFarland but we live in Jasper. Don't know NGM? Meet up would be cool. Thanks!
 
sargentrs said:
Checked the harness plug, at firewall behind the valve cover, but didn't think about crawling under and checking the plug at the NSS. I have no power to yellow at starter relay with ignition start. If I ground that brown terminal on the relay to chassis ground would that be a good test of the ground circuit from the NSS? I.e.. If I ground that terminal and it starts, my NSS circuit is the problem? Forgive my dumbness, electrical is a weakness of mine. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
Click to expand...

Yes if you ground that terminal and it starts then you have your answer!
 
sargentrs said:
My wife works at the hospital in Cumming. I work in Alpharetta, off Hwy 9 near McFarland but we live in Jasper. Don't know NGM? Meet up would be cool. Thanks!
Click to expand...

North Georgia Mopar Club.
 
1969383S said:
North Georgia Mopar Association.
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First I've heard. You a member? Where's home base? They have any regular cruise ins? Jasper has a little local cruise in 4th Saturday of every month. Only about 20-30 cars/trucks but a good bunch and some cool rides. You'll have to bring the 'cuda some time.
 
Yes I am a member.

I have been going to the d'ville varsity on tuesday nights cruise in. I live a little north of hwy 369 off of hwy 9. Almost in d'ville.
 
I know about where you're at. We go to church in d'ville. Swanson's rebuilt my tranny this week n Berry's (wrecker service) pulled her to his place and RnR'd it for me on his lift. Small world!
 
Sometimes the world is just that small. Mopar guys are everywhere belive it or not!
 
hey just throwing this out there but if your car is a 74 ( the only year they used the seat belt interlock relay ), is there a chance it has not been bypassed on your car?, if it hasn't that could be your problem, I had the same issue on my sons 74 Duster, jump the solenoid and all is good?, the relay is the little silver box with a red button on the d/s fender, jump past it and see what happens, they fail just like that
 
mopar56 said:
hey just throwing this out there but if your car is a 74 ( the only year they used the seat belt interlock relay ), is there a chance it has not been bypassed on your car?, if it hasn't that could be your problem, I had the same issue on my sons 74 Duster, jump the solenoid and all is good?, the relay is the little silver box with a red button on the d/s fender, jump past it and see what happens, they fail just like that
Click to expand...
Must have been already bypassed. I don't have that relay on my fender. And, dare I say, I've seldom used the seat belt so if it is connected, it hasn't been working. Thanks!
 
Looking at the 74 wiring diagram I see both wires to the starter relay are brown/yellow.

The one on terminal ign is the 12v trigger from ignition switch yellow. The one on the GND terminal is the ground from the NSS.
 
Thanks, Gerald. Dentist this morning but will start back on it when I get home. 'Preciate the help!
 
Just got in her, hit the key, and she fired right up! Arrrggghhhh! Now that means it's going to be one if those intermittent things that's so hard to track down.
 
Check the nss plug and verify linkage adjustment!
 
Did. Plug seated well, linkage appears to be set properly. We'll just give a day or two, I guess. The only real thing I did yesterday was unplug the center bulkhead connector and plug it back up. Didn't appear to help anything last night but today it fired right up. This kinda crap is very irritating. Starting fine now so we'll just have to wait and see. Keeping a screwdriver handy to jump the starter, though, just in case.:???:
 
It's not clear to me that you have a specific plan.

...What do you have for a weapon? You don't hunt moose with a .22, or even wander out there having forgotten your rifle. so arm you self. What do you have?

test light?
multimeter?
test clip leads?
service manual?
wiring diagrams?

A clear idea in your head of the "wiring path" that is the source, the path, the terminations along the way that the starter relay takes?

You can download service manuals in this thread:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1970088617

and some more at MyMopar

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

Also at MyMopar are third party wiring diagrams which are simpler and sometimes easier to follow BUT which leave out some things, and not always correct.

THE PATH of the relay wiring.

Colors vary. The following does not cover that as you can look it up. The 73 manual should be "close"

From the key, the start signal goes through the bulkhead

So you already have TWO (or three) points of interest......

Is the start signal actually "leaving" the ignition switch? Is it coming through the switch connector?

Is it getting "out" into the engine bay through the bulkhead?

Originally, it went through the contacts of the hated reset device for the seat belt interlock, and then went on to the start relay "push on" connector, yellow, yellow tracer, whatever

You need to check this. "Catch" it when it failed, and check it with your light. START clear out at the relay and see whether you get a "start" signal

HINT.............Check BOTH small push on terminals for power in "start." ONE should go to the transmission NSS. IF YOU HAVE power on that terminal, then the NS switch, or wiring, or connections is / are bad, or the linkage is not engaging the switch.

To put that another way, the push on terminal going to the NSS should NOT show power, as it should be grounded in park or neutral

EASY way to eliminate the switch TEMPORARILY. ID the start wire (yellow) and then remove the REMAINING "push on" connector at the relay, and GROUND that relay terminal with a clip lead. CAREFUL as now it'll start in any gear. Does it work? Concentrate on the NSS wire and circuit.

OK so what? You don't? have start power at the relay yellow? Where to check next? Pick the EASY TO GET TO places. Crawl under the dash, and access the ignition switch connector, check that wire at the dash harness side of the switch connector......Power?

Yes? Then look for trouble at the bulkhead connector

No? Check the ignition switch side of the switch connector. WIGGLE the connector. Wiggle the key. No power? It's the switch at fault.

Let's say we are OK clear out to the bulkhead connector.........what then.......? You don't? have power at the yellow relay wire at the relay?

LOOK AGAIN for that reset box under the dash. Maybe it's there and you missed it. Maybe someone removed it BUT MAYBE they did a crappy job bypassing it, and the wires are taped together, crappy connection.

Here, the relay/ reset........

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=14304

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1969624169

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=292463

More........

So you've checked for power at the relay, you've checked the NSS is grounded, what then?

MAYBE the relay is failing. sometimes they get rusted inside, etc, or just corroded conacts. Hey it's old. I don't like "throwing parts" at a problem, but intermittent troubles are always.........troublesome. Consider buying a relay. All Chrysler 4 terminal start relays work the same. The brackets can be different.
 
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