CRAP! I'm smoking!

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Ironmike

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Man oh man. I can't get a break. Brand new rebuild with Total seal gapless top rings. Broken in right.....12 dyno pulls.

Get it in the car and run it through a heat cycle with open headers......no smoke.

Fast forward 2 weeks. Going to a cruise I noticed a wee bit of smoke behind me. Mostly after a decelleration then applying throttle. So I smack on it pretty hard, and to the best of my ability, didn't notice smoke.

Get to the cruise and back in idling, smoking....not bad but enough that sumpin ain't right.

I got three theories 1. rings aren't seated yet? Hard for me to believe.

2. Sucking oil from the bottom of the ported Super Victor. Took off the carb and I can see the intake runners. Don't look oily. Taped a Q-tip onto the end of a piece of TIG wire and ran it along the port floors. Just a little fuel wet, but not oily.

And theory 3. Valve seals. When I put them on, I didn't use the plastic installation sleeve. Actually it didn't come with 'em. I used the white teflon positive type seals with the metal band. Was real careful installing, but heard you GOTTA USE THE SLEEVE.

The 2 pics are the SAME plug. 1 side looks ok, the other side black. 6 of the plugs look exactly like the ONE in the pic. The other 2 are just black.

I'm hoping I just need to run it for awhile or instal new viton type seals.

Thoughts? Please don't tell me my brand new rings are shot....
 

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I was talking to this girl in a bar last night and she asked me if I smoked after sex...

I replied, "I don't know, I've never looked..."

But I have smelled burning rubber occasionally....
 
Teflon valve seals...did not anyone still used them....

check the intake bolts...snug them again..
 
Maybe the oilrings need more break-in, and the fat carb is finding what they missed.
Ive put a few sets of those seals on without the sleeve. No issues here.There is a bit of a knack to it though.
 
I think before I got too crazy I would use a new intake gasket, and see what happens.
 
I was kinda thinking the intake gasket was the culprit too, but I can look down the runners and the mating surfaces look ok. Not real oily....bolts are tight.

It doesn't seem to smoke until warmed up, and it doesn't seem to do it under hard accelleration(full throttle). These symptoms make me think valve seals. I was so careful putting those on. Didn't see any gouges, etc.

Total Seal says ya have to use a Viton seal, but viton, teflon. It's just a friggin valve seal. The whole gapless ring thing is new to me and I don't know how much issue there really is there.

Is there some diagnostic trick to find out if it IS the intake sucking oil?
 
It's generally agreed upon that If it's burning oil on deceleration its sucking from the valve seals/top end; if on acceleration it's the rings/bottom end.

It was mentioned before, check the intake bolts; I like to use #2 seleant on such devices.

And if you really want to know where the wild goose goes; leak it down.


Curious.... What weight oil are you using? If it's something like 5-30 synthetic, that's too slick.
 
You didn't say what color the smoke is, unless I missed it. I assume since you are leaning toward oil that the smoke is light blue?
 
Yeah, I could leak it down, but that ain't gonna tell me whether it's valve seals or intake sucking oil. Far as I know a leakdown will tell me if it's bad compression rings or valves leaking. Right?

I'm running VR1 20-50.

Hey Rusty! Ya know, I really can't say it's blue smoke...the cloud just ain't that dense. But it stinks like oil.

Dyno says I WAS a tad on the LEAN side. Maybe a blown power valve.....

I mean jeez, look at my plugs. I put so much money and time in this thing, it's killin' me.

One old timer last night said "drive the crap outta it for awhile" before doing anything. I've never had rings that took awhile to seat, but then again I've never used gapless rings.

The thing is it did NOT smoke on the dyno. I was outside for the last 3 pulls watching the exhaust. But on the dyno there's really no time to build much vaccum. You know what I mean.

I'm tempted to put the carb back on tomorrow after checking the power valves, and just driving it for a week or so. But maaaan, those plugs are black!
 
Ironmike said:
2. Sucking oil from the bottom of the ported Super Victor. Took off the carb and I can see the intake runners. Don't look oily. Taped a Q-tip onto the end of a piece of TIG wire and ran it along the port floors. Just a little fuel wet, but not oily.
Click to expand...
That's where I would look first. It easy enough to take the intake off and look for gasket compression and oil in the intake runners. What seems to be fuel wet may indeed be oil. You'll see it one way or the other when you remove the intake.

I say this because it happened to me. In my case, the heads were milled, the intake was milled to match, and as a result the intake manifold bottomed on the front & rear rails not allowing the intake to seal. I could see the lack of imprint in the intake gasket when I removed and also found oil at the intake runner/head port interface. I corrected the machine work and subsequently used sealant around the intake ports.

Just a guess, but it's easier to remove the intake than mess with valve seals. I doubt those seals are the issue even if you did cut them a bit on install. JMO.
 
Ironmike said:
And theory 3. Valve seals. When I put them on, I didn't use the plastic installation sleeve. Actually it didn't come with 'em. I used the white teflon positive type seals with the metal band. Was real careful installing, but heard you GOTTA USE THE SLEEVE.
Click to expand...

In my experience, you get a better install without the sleeve just as you did. Just make sure to break the edge on valve grooves with fine sandpaper before working the seal down on the stem. I've used the sleeve before and in my opinion it results in a stretched seal; you are better off not using that plastic sleeve. Again, I doubt that is your issue.
 
Heres how I check for a leak from the valley:
Pop the PVC out of the cover, move it aside,and plug the hole.
Pop the breather(s), and plug the hole(s).
Pull the dipstick out. Install a vacuum/pressure gauge there.

Start er up. Bring the Rs up to 1800 or so. The gauge should begin to read pressure. NOT vacuum. If theres vacuum there,you have your answer.Do not let the pressure rise above 3 or so psi. 4psi sometimes starts blowing seals or gaskets.
 
Pcv my brothers 408 does the same thing windage from bottom end it sucks it through carb when you let off the gas.
 
No pcv valve. 1 breather on each valve cover. AJ, will try that tomorrow for sure, buddy. Hope it's one of the 2 EASY fixes....
 
I think you should double check the initial timing first. Make sure it is optimized for your combination. Once you get that ironed out, then get the mixture right on the carburetor. If those plugs are black like you have described, IMO, the mixture is too rich. I'm not interested in what any dyno says. The plugs say rich.
 
Post 20, x2^^
And if you dont run a PCV; The throttle blade opening has to be increased to give the engine the idle-air that the cam demands. This upsets the transfer-port synchronization, and the idle/lowspeed mixture, and the PV calibration. The PVC is an excellent Idle-Air-Bypass tool, at least up to cams of less than 250* or so.This may be contributing to your plug color.And with incorrect idle/low speed ignition timing,also, may be at the root of the blue smoke.
I guess what Im getting at is this; before you tear into the engine, be sure the tune is right.
The Dyno only gets the WOT/full load, tuned. This is but a tiny part of a street motors life. Very tiny.
Its up to you to dial in the rest. Since I have no idea of your tuning skills,Im only suggesting that the tune isnt quite there yet.I am in no way suggesting that your tune is flat-out bad.
The biggest street cams I have ever tuned were maybe 250-260 degrees. I ran the PCV, without issue, and a single breather, and no drilled holes in the T-blades,and PLENTY of idle-timing.
Hope that helps.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I think you should double check the initial timing first. Make sure it is optimized for your combination. Once you get that ironed out, then get the mixture right on the carburetor. If those plugs are black like you have described, IMO, the mixture is too rich. I'm not interested in what any dyno says. The plugs say rich.
Click to expand...

Ya that plug looks rich,like Rusty says,but why would the outher side look clean? is it misfiring.
 
Sometimes a plug's burn pattern is affected by its position when it's tightened down. If one side is toward the cylinder wall and the other toward the center of the cylinder when it's tightened, it could certainly have a different pattern on each side. I wouldn't let that be a blip on the radar. That's how you get too caught up in chasing ghosts.
 
Timing's easy. Dist locked at 34 degrees. Jetting is one step up from prior combo. I went up a hundred thou lift camwise, to .688. It SHOULD be fine. I gotta check the powervalves, though. Doesn't smell like gas.

Nowhere for a PCV on a 950HP and didn't have on for years. Glad you guys are all on board! Making me think!
 
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