Distributor is 270 degrees off?

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BuckeyeAlex

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I'm trying to get my 408 Magnum fired back up. Before turning the key, I set it to TDC and made sure the distributor was pointing at number 1 cylinder. Cranked it over for a while and it didn't fire, so I decided to check everything over. I noticed that I had left the distributor hold down loose the distributor had jumped up. Stupid mistake, no biggie. I set the distributor back in and check the balancer, and at TDC the distributor is 270 degrees off! I know I need to adjust the oil pump gear now, but how?
 
TDC on which stroke? There are 2 TDC positions compression stroke and exhaust stroke, which one are you using?

Set your balancer to TDC on the compression stroke (both valves closed) for #1 cylinder. Check to see where the slot is on the drive. If it isn't in line with the forward intake bolt on the left front side of the engine (DRIVER SIDE) then use a big screw driver in the slot on the drive and turn it, it will ride up the cam gear and drop. Keep doing that until you have it right. Drop the distributor in with the rotor facing the toward the front.

Try it.
 
I've said this many, many, many times. "There are engines that matter" But when talking about slant or any Chrysler V8 you can ACTUALLY throw the intermediate gear in BLINDFOLDED and "toss" the distributor in there after it and it will run!!!!

The secret?

SIMPLE


Determine the timing marks are accurate (piston stop), determine the compression stroke, and then just position the timing marks WHERE YOU WANT initial timing, IE 10--15 before TDC.

Then shove the no1 plug wire in wherever the rotor is pointing. You "may" have to move the distributor housing "a few" degrees.

If it "moved" from where you put it, either you made a mistake, or didn't notice "that second timing mark," or there is something BAD wrong aka "broke"

Don't take ANYthing for granted.

CHECK the timing marks.

CHECK the distributor gear that it's not sheared on the shaft

CHECK the distributor is not "falling apart." IT HAS happened

There IS a "factory right way" to put the distributor gear in the engine. It's right there in the shop manual.

Not all distributors over the years (and aftermarket) have the rotor indexed the same in reference to the drive tang
 
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=1969686215&postcount=28

"The thing" about timing traditional V8 engines. This does NOT apply to some V6s (even/odd fire) and some 4 bangers.

"The book" shows how to insert the intermediate shaft, that is the drive gear/ oil pump drive, and if done properly, everything comes out "OK"

THE REASON it is originally done that way is

so the assembly line folk can wrench, repeat

so the plug wires "lay" nice

so the tune up guys "see" what they expect.

The TRUTH is you can close your eyes and drop the drive gear in ANYPLACE, plug the distributor in "any" old way, and and then bring the timing marks up on no1 ready to fire, and plug the no1 wire in wherever the rotor points, and it will run just fine.

If the vacuum can is off interfering with something, you can simply turn it where you want, bring no1 up to fire, and plug the no1 wire into where the rotor is pointing.

HERE IS the steps to setting up an engine dist.

1---It is important to realize, that when the cam timing marks are set "by the book" that is cam at 6 o'clock, crank at 12 o' clock, this is NOT no1 ready to fire, but rather no6 ready to fire.

So you either have to plug in the dist. pointing to no6, or rotate the engine 1 turn

2---After the cam is timed, with the timing marks on TDC, the "book" shows how to insert the intermediate shaft. if yours is incorrect and you want to correct it, you can simply use a large screwdriver and "walk" the gear up out of the helix and move it whichever way it needs

The gear on a small block should have the slot pointing nearly straight inline with the crank, just a tad to the driver side pointing at the front most manifold bolt

A B/RB gear the slot should be essentially inline with the crank

3---With this in place, now bring up the no1 cylinder ready to fire NOT on TDC but rather WHERE you want initial timing to be. There are two ways to do that

A---If either valve cover is off, bring the timing marks up to where you want initial time, IE 10BTC or so for a bone stocker, 15-20 for a "cam" or maybe even a little more for a real hot cam
Look at either the no1 or no6 valves. Whichever set of valves is CLOSED indicates which cylinder is ready to fire. If no 6 are closed, you can either plug the dist. in with rotor pointing to rear (no6) or rotate the crank one turn, and plug the dist in for no1 (rotor pointing forward)

B---If the valve covers are on, pull the no1 plug, stick your finger in the hole, and bump the engine around. When you START to feel compression, watch the timing marks, and bring them up to initial time, IE 10-12 BTC

Now plug the dist. in, rotor pointing forward, and put the vacuum can approximately where it should be.

I always mark the dist. upper rim directly under the no1 tower so I don't have to argue with teh cap.

Rotate the dist RETARD (cw for small block, ccw for B/RB) to "get the slack" out of the drive, then slowly ease the housing back advanced until

the points open if you are using points

or until the reluctor tip is centered in the pickup coil core.

This procedure should get you close enough that the engine will start and run with no fuss. Then of course just take your timing light and adjust from there

An aside.

I'm a HUGE believer in checking actual TDC with a piston stop, which you can make or buy

cca-4795.jpg


Small block intermediate shaft below. The slot lines up with the front left intake manifold bolt. You can walk the gear up and around with a screwdriver

attachment.php


B, RB, 426 hemi:

attachment.php
 
Thanks guys. The car is about 25 min away at my in-laws, so I'll have to update tomorrow evening. At the 0 mark on my balancer, the number 1 piston was at the top of the cylinder. The only thing that was changed when I pulled the motor was the oil pan gasket, so I highly doubt this is anything broken or way out of whack, the car has ran great for the 2 years I've had it.

Bad Sport, my father in law put a screwdriver in there and tried to turn, but said he couldn't. Maybe he was just afraid to force it too much or couldn't get a good grip on it, but that was my first suggestion for fixing it and I'll try it myself first thing tomorrow.

67Dart273, I really appreciate your response as well. I do a lot more searching and reading on here than I do posting, and your posts have helped me a LOT!
 
At the 0 mark on my balancer, the number 1 piston was at the top of the cylinder.

ON WHICH STROKE? It has to be on the compression stroke.

Bad Sport, my father in law put a screwdriver in there and tried to turn, but said he couldn't. Maybe he was just afraid to force it too much or couldn't get a good grip on it, but that was my first suggestion for fixing it and I'll try it myself first thing tomorrow.

It'll turn, big screwdriver tight in the slot and turn/lift.
 
Thanks guys. The car is about 25 min away at my in-laws, so I'll have to update tomorrow evening. At the 0 mark on my balancer, the number 1 piston was at the top of the cylinder. The only thing that was changed when I pulled the motor was the oil pan gasket, so I highly doubt this is anything broken or way out of whack, the car has ran great for the 2 years I've had it.

Bad Sport, my father in law put a screwdriver in there and tried to turn, but said he couldn't. Maybe he was just afraid to force it too much or couldn't get a good grip on it, but that was my first suggestion for fixing it and I'll try it myself first thing tomorrow.

67Dart273, I really appreciate your response as well. I do a lot more searching and reading on here than I do posting, and your posts have helped me a LOT!

If timing marks are physically correct the no1 piston "comes up" on the firing stroke AND the "wrong" exhaust stroke. This is when no6 fires. (The outer dampener ring CAN slip, making the marks incorrect)

There is really no need to change the dist. gear just to get it running.

Easiest way to find "compression stroke" is to ........

pull no 1 plug

stick your finger in the hole, and bump engine. I use a screwdriver, etc, to jumper the start relay. You may have to "go round" a couple of times before you know what you are to feel for

"As soon as" compression starts to be felt, STOP. Now look at the balancer, and move/ bump the engine till the timing marks "come up" which should be pretty quick. Once again do NOT stop the marks at TDC. Rather stop them "about" where you want the engine timed, IE 10-15 BTDC

Now look at your rotor. Where is it pointing? That is where the no1 plug wire goes.

You can get further close by moving the dist. body until the reluctor is centered in the pickup coil core. If you have points you want them "to just open."

If you do this right it WILL start right up

What is the condition of the timing chain? Might it have slipped?
 
He was turning clockwise, but just made one attempt and said "won't turn", so I started making things complicated in my head and decided to come home and check FABO! Lol

Stupid question, how would I know if it's on the compression stroke aside from pulling the valve cover? Just harder to turn the crank? Honestly I turned the thing over so many times tonight that it's already become a blur to me.
 
Just like Del said in the above post, pull the plug, stick your finger in the hole and bump it over until you feel your finger being pushed out.
 
Timing chain should be fine. It's a crate 408 Magnum that only has a few thousand miles on it. It sat parked for a while before I bought it and started driving it, oil pan gasket seeped enough to make me want to change it, here we are today. Never had any ignition/timing issues with it until tonight. Everything is exactly as it was when I pulled the motor out, other than the distributor being 270 degrees off from what it was. I'm pretty confident turning the gear with a screwdriver will take care of it.
 
OK but what GOT it that way? Something had to have changed? These things just don't happen.
 
In the OP, he said the dizzy jumped up, probably was pushed up by the gear maybe. I dunno.
 
Yes. Trying to watch my 3 year old while buttoning everything up, forgot to tighten the bolt for the hold down on the distributor. When it didn't fire, first thing I checked was to see if I had plugged the connector in for the distributor (I did), that's when I noticed the distributor was not seated down into the block (it was before attempting to start it). I tried to set it where it needed to be, wasn't happening, I called it a night. There's been a few head scratchers for me getting the car back together and nearly every "problem" has been solved within 10 minutes the next day after getting some sleep. Hopefully this will play out the same way.
 
I'm trying to get my 408 Magnum fired back up. Before turning the key, I set it to TDC and made sure the distributor was pointing at number 1 cylinder. Cranked it over for a while and it didn't fire, so I decided to check everything over. I noticed that I had left the distributor hold down loose the distributor had jumped up. Stupid mistake, no biggie. I set the distributor back in and check the balancer, and at TDC the distributor is 270 degrees off! I know I need to adjust the oil pump gear now, but how?

If everything was ok..and the distributor just moved...then moving the distributor back the engine would fire...the intermediate shaft is not going change its setting if the distributor is loose....

What distributor are you running...the MP distributor will have the slot that engages the immediate shaft and the rotor will line up...a MSD or other after market distributors has the slot and rotor will not line up and will be about 45-90 degrees off....and in order to get the rotor pointing towards the front left intake manifold bolt the intermediate shaft will need to be adjusted .....
 
Couple turns with a screwdriver, dropped the distributor in and it fired right up. Thanks fellas. A lot of these simple little things are new to me, this is my first time really messing with a carb and distributor powered car haha
 
Couple turns with a screwdriver, dropped the distributor in and it fired right up. Thanks fellas. A lot of these simple little things are new to me, this is my first time really messing with a carb and distributor powered car haha

Excellent. Thanks for posting back.

Sometimes folks get that happy feeling and leave us hanging, lol.

Now that you have that, it's time to tune, timing first carb second, and let er rip. :burnout:
 
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