DANGEROUS PRODUCT = Moog Ball Joints

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jbc426

jbc426

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I purchased a pair of Moog Problem Solver lower ball joints for my '68 Barracuda convertible. The pair that I put in there when I went through the suspension 3 or 4k miles ago were worn out? My alignment guy lifted the front of the car to make enough room for a prybar to lip under the tire and lift it up. The amount of freeplay at the lower balljoint was scary. The bottom of the tire would move over 3/4 of an inch up before the balljoint play would be taken up. Yes, Moog joints.

I ordered another set of Moog joints from Summit, K-781 & K783. I have the 11 &3/4" disc brake swap on my car.

The driver's side went in like normal. When I pulled the passenger side out of the box and prepared to put the rubber boot on it, I felt the entire ball joint itself wiggling loosely in the forged arm. I called Summit and they sent me a replacement and picked up the bad one UPS. I love Summit!

The next day, I received the replacement passenger side lower ball joint, # K-781. The ball joint seemed tight in the arm, so I began to bolt it in. No sooner than I had the K-781 bolted to the spindle and began bolting on the castle nut to attach the assembly to the lower control arm, than the ball joint fell out of the forged arm nearly dropping my spindle/dustshield onto the ground. I was just barley able to catch it in time.

I started doing some research about Moog quality and was disappointed to find this is a rather widely known issue. What a disappointment to find out Moog sold us out! :wack:

Needless to say, I am returning both lower ball joints to Summit and making them aware of the dangerous quality control issue with Moog.

I found a company that reportedly sells high quality suspension pasts called XRF Chassis. Has anyone tried their parts?
 
Wow, that's good to know, I was going to use the same ball joint's on mine when I redo my suspension this winter! I always assumed there quality was really good.
 
God dammit I don't know what we are supposed to do. Far more than Moog has sold us down the river to third world 'manufacturers.'

"NOS" is not going to last forever, and the way ebay operates, I bet some shztick right NOW is putting chineseo balls in "merican" boxes.
 
Bad Sport said:
Supposedly a lot of their stuff is from....you guessed it...China.
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IIRC, more and more is starting to be made out there from them. I think Hotchkis uses Proforged ball joints. They use their stuff for street, autocross, and the occasional road race. It can't be too bad of an option...
 
The problem is not so much China, but the greedy american company that moved or opened a plant there and has no room in the budget to pay a few quality control peaple!
 
I just re-did one side of my front end using Moog bushings and ball joints. I hope this is not the case for me, but I'm sure mine said "made in USA" on the boxes.
 
EL5DEMON340 said:
The problem is not so much China, but the greedy american company that moved or opened a plant there and has no room in the budget to pay a few quality control peaple!
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Well as I said, we sure as hell cannot single out Moog. Most of the shelves at NAPA. My father worked for years and years in a NAPA store, and for many years after that, ran his own independent store. He would turn over in his grave at the "modern crap."

Actually, before he died, he got a taste of it.
 
The Moog "problem solver" lowers I put in my Dart last year were binding up so badly the steering wheel wouldn't return to center. I actually replaced them with the O'Reilly ball joints (MasterPro?) and the Duralast ones from AutoZone (uppers, just last week). I don't know how they'll work long term, but the car now turns freely and they seem tight. I actually wrote Moog a detailed email about how disappointed I was in their expensive but crappy product and how I expected Moog products to be of superior quality. Their reply was basically, "yeah, sorry about that." They were a year old, so I didn't expect to return them or anything, but their attitude was one of nearly complete indifference. Sigh.
 
A ball joint is a ball captured in a cup. The "capture" is pressing the rim of the cup over a portion of the ball northern hemisphere. Enough force applied in a wrong direction would undo the capture. I'm reading error in your method of assembly.
 
My lower ball joints were recalled that came from "The Right Stuff ''. Maybe one company makes all of them.
 
Thanks for the heads up. I think slantsixdan mentioned Moog is owned by Federal Mogul? I have mew Moogs on shelf waiting to be put on. I'll chk them thoroughly beforehand
 
EL5DEMON340 said:
The problem is not so much China, but the greedy American company that moved or opened a plant there and has no room in the budget to pay a few quality control people!
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This is 100% accurate. China is quite capable of making quality parts. Its the "share holders" who need the gold plated toilet in their guest house that are ruining everything. But hey, their company doesn't make ball joints for Bentley or Rolls.
 
I guess I'm not sure what the "problem solver" ball joint is referring to. I just put the Moog upper/lower ball joints in, the normal replacement ball joints. Haven't driven it a lot, but it seems alright to me
 
EL5DEMON340 said:
The problem is not so much China, but the greedy american company that moved or opened a plant there and has no room in the budget to pay a few quality control peaple!
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Not the stupid politicians that think more taxes on the people that actually create jobs and drive the economy in this country?
 
RedFish said:
A ball joint is a ball captured in a cup. The "capture" is pressing the rim of the cup over a portion of the ball northern hemisphere. Enough force applied in a wrong direction would undo the capture. I'm reading error in your method of assembly.
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I understand what you are saying Redfish, but I am cognizant of the correct assembly procedures for removal and assembly of these components so as to not damage these parts by inadvertently prying/forcing them apart when installing them. The capture of the ball joint by the rim should not be finger tight or less. The press fit of the first ball joint to the lower arm actually fell apart before any installation was attempted. It happened while I was holding the lower ball joint in my hand while preparing to fit the rubber shield.

On the replacement lower ball joint, Once I bolted the lower arm to the spindle and then attached this ball joint assembly to the lower control arm, the weight of the spindle, caliper mount and dust shield was enough to pull the ball joint out of the cup. There was no force other than the simple weight of the parts. That should not be able to separate this press fit. If it was, the added weight of wheel and tire during actual use would compromise the attachment.

The assembly needs to capture the ball joint with enough force as to require significant prying apart of the assembly to get them to separate. The ball joint itself should be as strongly attached to the lower forged arm as the upper ball joint is to the upper control arm.

The way these joints are joined together, any unweighting of the front suspension that allows the tire to come off the ground would allow the lower ball joint to fall out of the socket. There are several mountain roads I use on annual trips that find the car catching a bit of air on certain sections. I'm not talking about doing Duke's of Hazard jumps, but I have caught an inch or so of air over rolling roads at speed. These ball joints would have been a recipe for disaster.
 
318willrun said:
I guess I'm not sure what the "problem solver" ball joint is referring to. I just put the Moog upper/lower ball joints in, the normal replacement ball joints. Haven't driven it a lot, but it seems alright to me
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It sounds like it solves the problem of wanting to drive your car.:D

Maybe there is a caveat on the box about these being for trailer queens and Barrett Jackson cars only.
 
There are procedures for setting up running parts. One of which is to test the pull-off/pull-out force to remove the ball from the socket after installed. They should test at least 3-5 pieces for each set-up, and then run periodic checks throughout production.

They are obviously not performing these checks either to cut costs or the operator is being lazy and management not keeping on it.
 
Some photos on the internet will accomplish far more than a phone call.

As well as lend some credence to some pretty strong claims.
 
krazykuda said:
There are procedures for setting up running parts. One of which is to test the pull-off/pull-out force to remove the ball from the socket after installed. They should test at least 3-5 pieces for each set-up, and then run periodic checks throughout production.

They are obviously not performing these checks either to cut costs or the operator is being lazy and management not keeping on it.
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SPC ya' think?

Not sure I like the design of the "Problem Solver" joint. If you look at the sectioned image in the PDF it seems like minimal area to contain the ball stud on extension. Then the integrity of the powder metal cup bearing comes into question. Inaccurate powder mix, low density at press, and decarb at sintering the process could cause cup breakdown after assembly if not found in process.

[ame]http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/_pdf_En/MOOG_PS_Bulletin_27015_Socket_Design_En.pdf[/ame]
 
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