Traction Failure

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swies

swies

Wish I had more time.
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I had my Dart at the track last night. It was the first night with the new gears installed. (3.55's SG instead of the 2.45 open that was in it)
It was the first time I have installed a set in a MOPAR unit and the good news is they held together fine. There is a very slight whine at neutral throttle but they are a used set and the whine is not getting worse so I will live with it for now.

The question was traction...
I could not get any to save my life.
First run, good burn out, test launch on the pad was good. When the light went green, all hell broke loose including my tires. It was a smoke show on the launch pad. After getting the rear settled down and the front pointed straight again, I eased into the gas and ran out the back side 17.1 sec @ 91 mph, 4100 rpm.

Second run, longer burn, two test launches, both good. At the green, launch was good till I left the pad and then it lit up. Backed out of the throttle, got it settled, on the gas again, out the back 16.6 sec @ 93 mph, 4200 rpm.

Third times the charm right? NOT.
HARD burn in the water, another burn on the pad, test launch hooks hard. At the green, launch was good, made it to the 60' mark and the tires lit again. Settled, on the gas, out the back 16.1 sec @ 94 mph, 4250 rpm.

Here is the car info.
It is a Toy for me. I cruise and hit the track once and a while.
245/60-R15 BFG's on the rear. Wheels are 15x8 and have 4.5" BS and I don't think I can fit more under there unless I can find a wheel with some more BS. (I have about 1" to play with on the inside but only 1/4" on the outside.)

I am not a long time racer. My past experience was with a '76 Chevy Monza with a 350/350 setup and tubs in the back running narrowed 9" and Mickey 15" ET's.

I know I can get DOT "Cheater" slicks but will that be enough?
What other tire / wheel options are there? (It is the Big Bolt Pattern by the way.)
Thanks for reading and for any input.
 
I have MT drag radials on my 64 Sport Fury. Went 12.12@110mph. Others have gone much faster with them. Start there, and also try clamping the front of the leaf spring. That should get you to stop the smoke show.
 
Stay out of the water with treaded tires. Clamping the front of the springs and un-clamping the rear may help as well.
 
A friend at the track told me to try some traction bars, then he gave me a set to try.
Are they any good? or just for old school show?
 
ease it out of the hole and then nail it.learn how to drive it,more to racing then flooring it.
 
swies said:
A friend at the track told me to try some traction bars, then he gave me a set to try.
Are they any good? or just for old school show?
Click to expand...

No slapper bars, lol. You would be better served to clamp the front and un-clamp the rear on the leaf springs. This will help with spring wrap and allow the car to lift when launching, applying more down force on the tires.
 
Bad Sport said:
No slapper bars, lol. You would be better served to clamp the front and un-clamp the rear on the leaf springs. This will help with spring wrap and allow the car to lift when launching, applying more down force on the tires.
Click to expand...
Good to know.
I will politely let him have them back.
 
Drive around the water. Lower air pressure to 16 psi to start. Feather the throttle. BFGs suck.
MT ET Street drag radial 26 Diameter will hook you up. At my track you need long studs and driveshaft safety loop to get thru tech with sticky tires.
 
Do you have a pinion snubber on your car? This will also help along with the mods to the springs that was mentioned in previous post.
 
From what all the pros here say, the BFGs are hockey pucks. Get some good tires!
 
I had similar issues with a 360 Dart on street tyres. Tried 3.23, 3.55, 391 gears. The more the gear, the more she spun the tyres with that open diff.
By easing it out of the hole I could run 14.0 dead, obviously the 60' was not great but I had fun.
I later bought some MTs and they are a world of difference, burn out properly and they stick tight and I'm a very occasional drag racer.
 
I have those exact same tires on both my cuda and my s-10. Ran my s-10 at a test and tune recently, didn't matter if I heated them up in the water box or passed around it. Smoke and fish tailed something terrible, they're fine for the street but completely useless at the track. Buy a seperate set or wheels and put some slicks on those and give it a whirl.
 
You have probally the WORST tire possible on that thing. ANY other brand would be a improvement.
 
1968Dartman;
I do have the factory snubber.
I am considering the Caltrac bar fabrication option but don't want to head down the wrong street as it were.
To many of you, So my BFG's (PO put them on the car) what is a good suggestion that won't require me to break the bank?
Looked at Summit, ~$200 each seems kinda high for a play toy street strip car.
OR, is that exactly what it is going to cost and I should suck it up?
 
Big burn out with BFG makes them greasy. A quick hit to clean them off and go. Never do test hops. Burnout and go to the line. Every time you do a test hit, you take anything good from a burnout off the tire.

I agree with others in here, Radial T/A's are horrible tires for getting a good 60' time.

Don't do big burnouts with et street radials either, get the tires spinning in high gear at high rpm, count one and let it roll out. They get greasy as well when heated up too much. My 2 cents, Try a 235/60/15 ET street radial or similar sized tire. Short tires will help with effective gear ratio.

94 is a pretty good MPH so keep at it. That's low 14's in the 1/4. It's got 13's in it with tuning.

Most important... Did you have fun?
 
crackedback said:
Big burn out with BFG makes them greasy. A quick hit to clean them off and go. Never do test hops. Burnout and go to the line. Every time you do a test hit, you take anything good from a burnout off the tire.

I agree with others in here, Radial T/A's are horrible tires for getting a good 60' time.

Don't do big burnouts with et street radials either, get the tires spinning in high gear at high rpm, count one and let it roll out. They get greasy as well when heated up too much. My 2 cents, Try a 235/60/15 ET street radial or similar sized tire. Short tires will help with effective gear ratio.

94 is a pretty good MPH so keep at it. That's low 14's in the 1/4. It's got 13's in it with tuning.

Most important... Did you have fun?
Click to expand...

Thanks Cracked for the input.

I did have good fun and it was good to know the gears held. (It was my first MOPAR gear install.)
I believe the car does have the 13's in it.
I have just got the AFR installed and have not had any real test and tune time with it so that will help.
I know I have my initial timing a little low but need to run it that way until I can get the mechanical limited on the top end.
With all that, tires just became my next purchase so that will delay the rest.
I did look up some CalTrac instructions that can be fabricated at home.
I have a welder and I am pretty good with it.
What do you think of them?
Seems like a good plan on the surface, metal is cheap and I can do the assembly in the garage and the reviews on this site seem to back their performance.
 
I'm running a 13.04 with used skinny street tires! Bfg's do suck for the track.
 
I like the home built stuff. I build my own as well... :) Nice thing is you can move the shock mount more inboard a bit.

You shouldn't need them at the level you are running if the springs are decent. Any video of the car leaving? Is it Porpoising? A good rear shock may help. It's strange that it unloads the tire at 60'.
 

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20 years ago I had a 74 4 door valiant. Similar combo as you. 318, 904 shift kit, 3500 stall 275 first gear ratio, 8 3/4 Detroit locker with 4.30 gears. I ended up putting 275/60/15 mt cheater slicks. I also put super stock springs on. Also put hood scoop on sealed to thermaquad carb. I could pull 1.70 sixty foot times with 13:30"s quarter mile times. 101 mph was the best I could do. My point is if you want to come out of the whole, you got to have tire and suspension to lift the rear skyward.
 
So, who has a pr to sell me cheap?
Shipping to 98901
LAUGHING MY A$$ OFF at thaaat one.
Seriously, will save my nickles and move them to the top of the list.
 
I totally agree with clamping and unclamping the springs.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DRAG RADIALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is a reason some tires are called "street tires".
 
You were dropping a 1/2 second per pass. Nothing to complain about there! Very few can run to the cars potential right out of the box. Its always about chipping away at that e.t.. Knocking off a 1/2 second per run is great. BTW how fast did that brand X go?
 
Yup, nut up and get some new rubber. Gotta pay to play. Just be glad its not $1000+.

The same should be said for converters, don't cheap out!
 
And I wouldn't be buying a bunch of suspension parts that you don't need, id spend the money on two tires.
 
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