Two-Tone Layering Question

Well, the clear coat has started peeling in a lot of places on the 5 year old $500 paint job on my '68 4 door. The roof is white, and the clear has faded on it and peeled. All of this happened in a very short amount of time - about 2 months. First noticed the first peel, then every wash gets worse and worse. Anyway, I want to repaint the car.

I am all about low downtime, so I'd set probably a week aside to pull it into my shop when it becomes empty, peel all the vinyl off with a vinyl wheel, and remove what I can.

There's a couple things i want to fix - pull a dent on the driver's door, and fix the trim holes. As far as I can tell the previous work was to pull the strips off the side of the car and just fill the clip holes with bondo or something. They were invisible 3 years ago, but now each one you can see a recessed ring that gives away the hole. So I want to put some kind of backing on those and epoxy them.

The pillars on the rear of the roof I know are likely bondo'd but I'm going to wait and find out.

Anyway - on to my question. Bronze metallic was not my first choice of color, but it looked nice so I left it.

I want to recolor Plum Crazy with a Urethane. On top of that though, I want the roof to be gloss black, and to have a painted on gloss black stripe, as well as paint the window frames on the 4 doors black - it gives a slight illusion to being a no post. Then the rear -trunk trim I am taking off, and painting that portion black as well, and having a sign painter friend paint "Dodge" in cursive script in silver and black.

So my question is, how should I layer this? My thought was to spray the black roof, spray a black splotch across the trunk and rear fenders, and then tape off where the stripe will be, tape off the roof, lay down some kind of base, and then the purple. Or would I do purple, tape off the rest of the car besides the stripe, lay down black?

Or something else entirely? My worry with the black on top of the purple is that the paint layer will be raised slightly and crisp and it'll just look vinyl. Basically I don't really want to be able to run my hand down the body and feel the stripe, is that possible?

Whichever way you do it, it takes a lot of clear to cover a line. If by urethane you mean a (hopefully high quality) single stage then there isn't much you can do. 3m makes blue and green stripe tape "fine line tape" they call it. Enables the cleanest straightest lines. And as far as the holes go please weld them in. You'll be happier in the long run. Even if you were to epoxy from the back it will eventually fail. Best of luck in your adventure!

So you'd recommend more welding a plate to the back of each hole and then filling it? Or welding a big gob on there and grinding it off or something?

I have a lot of tape at my disposal, and have some of the blue fine line and the green thin tape that's not quite as malleable. It also isn't as clean. I don't really know that i intend to clear it. I'm looking at a Gallon of it from TCP global for under $200. It doesn't say single stage though, when I look at single stage all they seem to list is acrylic enamel.

Then likely a couple quarts of black.

Acrylic enamel is a single stage. An ancient, non hardened (although some brands can be hardened) low uv resistance single stage. That said it was the industry standard for a long time.
Enamel also takes a long time to dry. You'll have to apply the second color days later (maybe less consult the tecnical data from the manufacturer).

A urethane single stage like you mentioned in the first post, while more expensive, will have better fade resistance and cure much faster. Things to know ahead of time: Paint, even solid color, has pigment settling, so you can only do the barest minimum wet sanding an buffing. If you have a run or sag you may see an impression or outline even when sanded flat and buffed back to a gloss. Using single stage the line between colors will always be apparent.

As far as the holes, if they are about 1/4" or smaller you can mig them closed easy. A tack at a time until you have it filled in you'll be done before you know it. There will be some grinding involved, but if you keep the heat at a reasonable level there shouldn't be much warping. Once you're done some metal etch primer and undercoating on the backside will keep it from going bad for a long time.

Edit: re-read your post. You can disregard most of what I said above about paint as it won't apply to what you're looking at(I think, going over to tcp global to check it out). if it's not single stage, then its base coat for a base/clear system. you really have to clear coat over it or it will go bad, fade and chalk up quickly.

Is this what you're looking at?

http://tcpglobal.netsuitestaging.com/s.nl/it.A/id.146880/.f

It's single stage, hardened, urethane, and should hold up ok.

adiffrentcity said:

Is this what you're looking at?

http://tcpglobal.netsuitestaging.com/s.nl/it.A/id.146880/.f

It's single stage, hardened, urethane, and should hold up ok.

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Yes that's the one I saw. I;d like something that last a little longer than 5 years. Unfortunately the car lives outside. I don't have a garage. The old owner had it painted by in his words "guy turned out to be a drunk and took 6 months to paint it, finally I gave him $500 to do what he could, hurry up, and give it back" and it was ok, because it lasted a little while and looked nice, now the quality is showing. People comment going "nice car" and stuff. And it is, but in my head I can't get over the peeling thing, it's driving me nuts.

Anyway, yes, I would ideally like to do single stage. Would packing paint on make it more durable? Or would that just make it more likely to chip? Say 6 coats or something. Or is the idea to stop once the paint is fully covered? I've only ever done base/clear - never single. I have a folding car spray booth that im borrowing, placing outside at my shop, and then I'll hose the ground down to do it. I have two gravity guns that I used about 6 years ago to paint a '68 Porsche.

Is there some other paint i can buy in that color that's single stage or is it only base/clear? At this point if the line layer can't be gotten rid of, I'm ok with that, and it seems like I'd want to do the black after the purple I think.

I know I'll have some holes to fill anyway as I plan to take the trunk panel off, and there will be holes there as well. Th last time the car was painted it wasn't removed so it may be all nasty under the panel.

What I was trying to say, is that particular paint is single stage. I should've looked it up first. As far as it holding up, well, doing the best prep you can and then using wax and keeping it clean after you're done is about all you've got to help it last. You only should need maybe three coats to get good coverage, more will just run the risk of trapping solvents, leading to de lamination, what you're dealing with now.

TCP Global is rebranded older PPG pigments. Shot it, it looks good. Expecting to use this in limelight urethane single stage,myself.

Abodybomber said:

TCP Global is rebranded older PPG pigments. Shot it, it looks good. Expecting to use this in limelight urethane single stage,myself.

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So you've used that particular paint, just a different color, and it was good? I'm all for it then.

Also adifferentcity, that confirms the stuff I was looking at is the correct stuff. Well awesome. Do you guys think a gallon is enough? Last car I painted was a tiny porsche and I think it only took two or three quarts. I don't remember.

It also says it's a kit, but doesn't clarify if it comes with the hardener or reducer. I got three things in the cart, looks like just under $300.00 for paint. I think that's a decent deal.

This is what I'm thinking:
http://www.tcpglobal.com/KUS-KIT-HRG362-GL.html?ext=F#.VgCXMZeUVRo
http://www.tcpglobal.com/HOK_KIT-KD3000-QT.html?ext=F#.VgCXVpeUVRo
http://www.tcpglobal.com/KUS-KIT-HRF1901-S-QT.html?ext=F#.VgCXZ5eUVRo

Hmmm.. Single stage not being my normal thing, considering you're going with the roof black I'd have to make a WAG that a gallon will be right, maybe just a bit left over. You painting the jams? That might mean you need a little more.

And I was confused by the "kit" designation but no listing of hardener or reducer also. Might call just to make sure you order what you need and nothing you don't.

Also for the best look and feel paint the purple first, IMO.

Agreed ^^^

so if I just barely hit the roof part with purple, like a little splotch over the line i want to make, and not spray the whole roof purple, I should be ok with a gallon? I was hoping to do the door jams yes, but not the upper door trim on the interior. That's already done, painted black.

Basically the whole roof black, except the front A-pillars, and the stripe black, window frames black, and rear of trunk black between the tail lights.

I'd do the black last. As for painting the stripe, black will cover the purple in one coat, two at the most. Due to the thin coat(s) of paint, there shouldn't a huge ridge where the tape was, plus once the paint is cured you'll be polishing it, and that alone can minimize the ridges, if any. The only way you'll never have ridges is if you did the whole car in base/clear and cleared over everything.

Personally, with the quality of the vinyl stripe kits these days, I see nothing wrong with the decal stripes.

Serj22 said:

so if I just barely hit the roof part with purple, like a little splotch over the line i want to make, and not spray the whole roof purple, I should be ok with a gallon? I was hoping to do the door jams yes, but not the upper door trim on the interior. That's already done, painted black.

Basically the whole roof black, except the front A-pillars, and the stripe black, window frames black, and rear of trunk black between the tail lights.

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That's it man! Go about a foot past the line with the purple before you spray the black, to leave yourself room to sand the fade smooth. To make sure you don't buy too much you could do the outside first then if you don't have enough for the jams you can order a quart. Although this will take soooo much masking and time waiting for the paint to cure and is bassackward from the normal, it could result in saving some dollars.

Yeah I'd rather get the jambs in the same shot. Either way I'll have to mask off the interior. I don't plan on removing much besides the Door panels, door sill covers, and kick panels, and then taping everything else. I may need to get another quart regardless because I'd like to shoot the underside of the trunk lid too, since that flips up and would be a pretty huge visible chunk of orange. Either that or I'd lay gray carpet up there, but either way needs paint, and at least the opening lip of the trunk.

I was lucky enough to have found an entire seall set, including the trunk seal in the trunk of the 1974 dart I bought. It says it fits the '68. So that should be a plus after I paint, no need to tape them off, just take them off.

I shot my car with TCP basecoat clear coat in their custom mixed F8 green. Their paint is awesome.

Take a quick look at Summits line of base-clear.
A gallon of base is $175 and a gallon of clear is $70 you would also need the reducer and hardener, the the base and clear uses the same reducer and hardener.
They also sell qts so you can get extra if you think you will need it.