Modifying headers, what size collector should I use???

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Butch67

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Location
Port Hope, Ont,
71 Dart.
Total new rebuild, motor dynode at 508hp@5700 and 565ft, tq @3600
So I finally got my 440 mounted in the car earlier this week. The car was an automatic before. As it turns out the driver’s side shorty header ends up coming out right at the Z-bar linkage and then pointing right at the clutch fork. I was going to modify the Z-bar but this wouldn't fix the clutch fork issue.
So the easier fix I believe other than buying new headers is to take the car and headers to the custom header shop. He says it shouldn't take him long to just cut the bottom section off the headers and re-route the pipe to miss all the 4-speed linkage and clutch.
My question is I guess is 2 parts.
1- what size collector should I get him to weld on to the end since I can make it any size I want now that it is getting cut? Original size is 2 1/4". I want the car to sound great and I know it will, but not so loud I don't want to drive it. I don't have pipes or mufflers so anything goes really at this point.
2- I am going to get him to change the passenger side collector at the same time even though it fits fine with no obstructions. Question Should I get him to make this side the same length as the driver’s side if he has to add a bunch of length and come out at the same location as the driver’s side even though it fits fine now?

It's long winded but I hope I cleared up all the variables. Doubt it though you guys are incredible thorough on here when you want to be.

Thanks
Butch
 
I believe they are 1 3/4"
I will have to double check when I get home tonight after work.

I new I was forgetting something. :banghead:

Thanks,
 
I believe they are 1 3/4"
I will have to double check when I get home tonight after work.

I new I was forgetting something. :banghead:

Thanks,

If they are indeed 1 3/4" primaries, I would think a 3" collector would do a good job.
 
I guess this what I get for saying I was trying to be accurate.

They are 1 5/8" schumacher Tri-Y headers.

I belive the plan is to cut them off where the single pipes join for the first time and modify them from there back to fit around the 4 speed linkage, etc...
Then do a similar job with the passenger side to have them look the same. He may be able to keep more on the passenger side and only change the bottom collector section as this side fits with no issues.

All I can say is that for anyone installing headers on a BB 71 Dart with an automatic these pipes fit awsome. Not one single hammer blow or screwdriver jam was required.
But for you 4-speed guys I guess it's not quite that east yet.

Seems a shame to wreck the coatings on them but I need headers and can't afford new ones at this time...

Thanks again,
Butch
 
I am not sure that's enough header for that motor.
 
Have you considered a hydraulic TO system? Pricey, maybe, but you'd get to keep those Schumachers w/o mods.

565@3600! Oh man...

Shouldn't take long is too ambiguous. If it goes to 3 hours, you're well on your way to new headers, and /or a hydraulic system.
 
What headers were on the motor when it was dynoed?If it was the tri-y then you have a monster.If it was dynoed with a 4 into 1 long tube header then you will drop quite a bit of power with the tri-y.

I would consider selling the tri y and putting the money towards a better header (for your application).

Those power numbers could easily run a 2" primary 3.5 collector on a lighter/lower geared car but will still pound the asphalt with a 1 7/8 primary and a 3" (3.5" would be better).

Even a 1 3/4 primary and 3" collector would beat the pants off of the tri y headers at your power level.

If you modify the ones you have a 3" collector would be my minimum.
 
Thanks everyone.
Yes the headers at the dyno were 4 into 1 long tube. I am not sure of the pipe size though, they definitely looked bigger than my Tri-Y's
Seeing that I am not in a rush cause the snow will be flying here soon, I guess selling these headers and buying new ones would be the correct solution then!!!.
Saying that what do you think mine would be worth? They are ceramic coated and in very good condition. No dents or marks to speak of.
Then what would be the best header for my application???
The only down side to the TTI's is that I will have to replace the Z-bar and a couple other things that I already bought brand new and that adds another couple hundred bucks or so. Remember we are getting are butts kicked up here (in Canada) on the exchange right now.
At the end of this build I am not looking for the fastest race car I can make, but a real nice street car that is both quick and relable.
Thanks again
Butch.
 
I would agree with what has already been stated. 1 5/8" primaries are the size for some small block applications. 1 7/8", 2", 2 1/8" primaries are what you will usually find used on the big block applications. Time to search for another set of the long tube 4 into 1 style headers. Those tri-y's will do nothing for you.
 
When I switched from schumachers to TTI's I noticed a big difference across the board. Currently running 440-200's. (2" primary, 3.5" collectors)
 
Ok.
Well I looked through TTI and I agree rocco that the 440-200's look like the best choice that I have for letting the motor do what it wants to do.
What did you do for coatings if you don't mind me asking?
If I am going to go this far do you guys recommend also adding the exhaust system from the headers back?
I have access to a muffler shop with tube bending capability, but nothing mandrel bent and not sure they actually go to 3" pipe. It's not a very common pipe size around here.

Thanks
Butch
 
3" or 2.5" will work.2.5" may be easier to fit(for tailpipes anyway) so consider that.It is your money but anything less than mandrel bent would be a waste of money.
 
Ok.
Well I looked through TTI and I agree rocco that the 440-200's look like the best choice that I have for letting the motor do what it wants to do.
What did you do for coatings if you don't mind me asking?
If I am going to go this far do you guys recommend also adding the exhaust system from the headers back?
I have access to a muffler shop with tube bending capability, but nothing mandrel bent and not sure they actually go to 3" pipe. It's not a very common pipe size around here.

Thanks
Butch


Polished ceramic. Considering the cost of the headers, I didn't see the point in skimping on the coating.
 
you know, if the header fits, thats worth 5-10-HP to me. Dealing with sub standard fit headers sucks a$$. You could even tone down the cam and make even more torque, inline with the headers dimensions. Torque is funner, HP is faster.
 
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