Piston recommendation

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Ironmike

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After getting my oil burning crap all figured out, found out today that I have to go .060 on my rebuild, among other not too good news.

I was running this Icon forged stepped dish http://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-ic745-040/overview/make/dodge and could just order a set .060 over, but my machinist said they are "ok", and really a "low end forged piston".

I really trust this guy and he's spent a lot of time showing me everything that was wrong.

I need a dish volume of somewhere around 20.5cc.....maybe a tad more since the block has to be decked also

So basically I was wondering what you guys might recommend? Diamond? Mahle? Wiseco?
 
If your machinist is so good and you trust him, ask him. I've always thought the Icons were a good piston.
 
Same here Rob. The only problem I have with ICON is they won't make you a custom piston. Everything they have is shelf stock.
 
I was gonna say JE is a candidate, but I only see them for stroker SBM's, and 4.030" and 4.070" bores; dunno what you have. Those do come in about 20 cc dish tops.
 
hopefully Mike from MRL Performance will chime in. He had some custom Racetec pistons made for my 340 and they were reasonably priced. Nobody made a custom shelf piston for a zero deck 340 at +0.040
 
goldduster318 said:
hopefully Mike from MRL Performance will chime in. He had some custom Racetec pistons made for my 340 and they were reasonably priced. Nobody made a custom shelf piston for a zero deck 340 at +0.040
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Yeah cause all these amateurs around here are chopped liver. <rolls eyes>
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yeah cause all these amateurs around here are chopped liver. <rolls eyes>
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right, the guy wants help and pretty much everyone's saying "hey! look, they have this one in a catalog". I had a good experience with that and I never would have known that without him.

But hey, why not get snarky for no reason!
 
Diamond has a shelf 4.06" bore for a 4" stroke with a 21.5cc dish, p/n 51408.
 
Hey man, I thought Icons were the bees knees. He said they had some "machining issues".
They sure aren't much cheaper than some of the others.

I did see that Diamond. Seems like it may be a candidate. I didn't see a price though.

Ya know......the more I thought about it, the Icon 4.060 is EXACTLY what I got now, just a tad bigger. No worry about clearance, same dish volume, etc. I MAY just stick with 'em.

I also have to read up a bit on quench. Not really sure I understand it but I know it's important, especially running 10.5 to 1 with iron heads. All I know is when my motor was originally built, the builder told me it had a "perfect quench". But he told me a lot that didn't....pan out. So as usual, I'm gonna have to check on that issue myself. If anyone can enlighten me on the subject, I'd love it.
 
Ironmike said:
After getting my oil burning crap all figured out, found out today that I have to go .060 on my rebuild, among other not too good news.

I was running this Icon forged stepped dish http://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-ic745-040/overview/make/dodge and could just order a set .060 over, but my machinist said they are "ok", and really a "low end forged piston".

I really trust this guy and he's spent a lot of time showing me everything that was wrong.

I need a dish volume of somewhere around 20.5cc.....maybe a tad more since the block has to be decked also

So basically I was wondering what you guys might recommend? Diamond? Mahle? Wiseco?
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with an ICON piston. If you are convinced you need to move away from them then I would select Mahle --they come with rings and are a really nice piston. Diamonds are also nice but I only go to Diamond when I need a true custom. If I were in your shoes I would just get an ICON .060" and be done with it.

BTW what were the issues with the oil consumption? J.Rob
 
Ironmike said:
If anyone can enlighten me on the subject, I'd love it.
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There is a sticky on quench in the General Discussion subforum. In a nutshell, it is any tight fit between the piston top and the adjacent area in the combustion chamber wall. Tight fit means under .060" maximum and preferably .035" to .050", measured (or accurately computed and checked) at TDC. The tighter the better, but too tight results in pistons kissing the head....the .035" minimum gap is a good general rule of thumb for that.

When the piston reaches TDC at the top of the combustion cycle, the ignition process has already started, and the tight quench gap compresses and 'squirts' the mixture out of that gap into the rest of the combustion chamber. That action swirls the mixture and makes for more complete and faster burning of the mixture, increasing efficiency and reducing the probability of detonation. It is a known tactic for lowering detonation. We focused a lot of effort on a .040" quench gap on our current 340 build, just for this reason.

FWIW, this type of effect, result from combustion chamber shaping, was preliminarily identified back in the 1920's in a seminal research paper in England on aircraft engines. It was a known factor for car engines by the 1960's.

And out of politeness, I have not asked about the oiling, but now that the ice has been broken....I'll admit to a strong curiosity on that point.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yeah cause all these amateurs around here are chopped liver. <rolls eyes>
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I hear ya....

goldduster318 said:
But hey, why not get snarky for no reason!
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Na, there's reason but IMO snarky he wasn't, just sayin like it is. We all try to help. The been there done that is most helpful. Those just mentioning parts is fine but without experience it does leave a bit of room to be desired and questioned of the parts actual worth or performance for the application though I'm sure all listed would be fine.

But, backing up a tad. In a way, there's nothing like being ignored or doubted since we'd not pro builders. "***" pro builder here does many engines per year. Great! Super!

I've done 5 engines my whole life. (30 years playing with cars, engines, racing, etc...)
Swapped out more parts than a speed shop carries for MoPars and learned the hard way before there was an internet. This how you end up with over a dozen intakes, cams, 5 sets of heads, buckets full of valves and (LMAO) "Extra bolts."

And for some, this time span is inferior knowledge.
Hence the "Chopped Liver."
 
Mahle , they have worked well in my car , 15,000 miles , burns no oil . Pistons are light and strong , a good piston for the money .
Ironmike said:
After getting my oil burning crap all figured out, found out today that I have to go .060 on my rebuild, among other not too good news.

I was running this Icon forged stepped dish http://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-ic745-040/overview/make/dodge and could just order a set .060 over, but my machinist said they are &quot;ok&quot;, and really a &quot;low end forged piston&quot;.

I really trust this guy and he's spent a lot of time showing me everything that was wrong.

I need a dish volume of somewhere around 20.5cc.....maybe a tad more since the block has to be decked also

So basically I was wondering what you guys might recommend? Diamond? Mahle? Wiseco?
Click to expand...
 
With the others - nothing wrong with Icon for a street or street strip engine. They are decent value for money and you don't need a competition quality piston. I've used Diamond, J&E, Ross, SRP, Icon, CP, and Speed Pro. A Speed Pro is not a CP. Icons are in the middle of the group price-point-wise.
 
due to exact measurements and dish volume compared with my .040 Icons, I decided to just order the .060 Icons. I will be about .010 OUT of the hole with 60.5cc chambers, so should be right where I want.......hopefully. Worse case is once it's decked, he MAY have to cut the pistons a bit, but probably not.

I'm not gonna hit 600 HP, so I believe the Icons will be fine. A friend running the Icons running in the 9's with a 175 shot. Many, many passes AND street miles.

OIL issues.......God, where do I start? Well, it was 2 things

1 CNC porting cut into valve cover bolt holes. No big deal, but "a little silicone" on the bolt didn't do squat. I gooped em up every time and never realized it was sucking oil and oil VAPOR like a pig.
Vaccuum test proved it. Now they're epoxied and ready to run. Vacuum and pressure tested and he even flowed them for me.

2. Horrendous cylinder finish. Aparrantly the machine shop I used last year to give me a quick hone used bad stones or something, and never checked their work. Nasty spiral scratches that looked like the friggin cylinder was threaded!
They knew what happened and ran a "dingleball hone" through to hide it.

Once my NEW guy cleaned it all up, the scratches were painfully obvious. He said that it wasn't even close to sealing.

So now, new pistons, bearings and a new Lunati solid roller and I'll be golden. It's only moneyO:)
 
Aaaaaah; thanks for sharing that info, Mike. Always good to get educated.....waiting to hear of your future success! It's tiime for a good break for you!
 
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