Two Times Can't be a Coincidence...Dart not Firing

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Whats the fascination with EI on an old slant? Kettering will get you home. Id say keep one in the trunk but on a slant its a PITA to remove. Simple pimple.....
Schematic_ignition.jpg
 
Wasn't able to do much today. I tested those little crimps I did from the ECU wire to the ballast. A tiny tug and they both slipped right out. I went out and got a soldering gun...and then exchanged for another (wouldn't even melt the solder!) and did my first two wire solders (I don't think I did too bad :). Wrapped them in heat shrink and electrical tape, should be much better. Was able to turn the car on and let it idle, went through the gears. Didn't die like it did before when this happened for a second time (wasn't warmed all the way up). It was already dark out so I will be regapping spark plugs and checking my timing tomorrow. Just going through all the bases, checking everything now. Hopefully those loose wires were the problem.
 
I will admit I didnt read every single line of your previous posts, but I dont see the mag pickup in the distributor mentioned anywhere other than checking your wire connections. This part is commonly ignored, and is the only part I have had come and go as you are describing. I agree solving a problem is better than throwing parts at something, but this is a $ 13 part, and I had your exact problem, and it was my solution.....after I changed the coil, box, and checked all my wiring...wasted tons of time over this little sob lol.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=49658&cc=1088759&jnid=475&jpid=0
 
You know ,the distributor and magnetic pickup are both used, plucked out of a shed and given to me. Any way to test that magnetic pickup to see if it is bad?

Small update. Timing was shown to be about 20-25 BTDC (yikes!). Got it back up to about 10 BTDC and tightened it up there. My misfiring is gone, the idle has improved greatly, and if I left the car shut down for a few minutes it would start much easier than before. Took a short drive up and down the street, restarting the engine multiple times. So far, so good. Next little 'baby step' is to the gas station.
 
Did you disconnect the vacuum line going to the distributor when you re-set the timing?
 
Dodge72 said:
You know ,the distributor and magnetic pickup are both used, plucked out of a shed and given to me. Any way to test that magnetic pickup to see if it is bad?

Small update. Timing was shown to be about 20-25 BTDC (yikes!). Got it back up to about 10 BTDC and tightened it up there. My misfiring is gone, the idle has improved greatly, and if I left the car shut down for a few minutes it would start much easier than before. Took a short drive up and down the street, restarting the engine multiple times. So far, so good. Next little 'baby step' is to the gas station.
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That was covered in post #10
 
Dodge72 said:
You know ,the distributor and magnetic pickup are both used, plucked out of a shed and given to me. Any way to test that magnetic pickup to see if it is bad?

Small update. Timing was shown to be about 20-25 BTDC (yikes!). Got it back up to about 10 BTDC and tightened it up there. My misfiring is gone, the idle has improved greatly, and if I left the car shut down for a few minutes it would start much easier than before. Took a short drive up and down the street, restarting the engine multiple times. So far, so good. Next little 'baby step' is to the gas station.
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Ahhh....I remember trying to convinced myself i solved the problem too. Lol. ask yourself why an advanced timing setting seems like it caused a complete lack of spark? Fyi....my distributor is LOCKED at 40....and I can still start the car without a starter assist...
 
OP
Yes you can test the magnetic pick up. There are three tests. 1) if it runs, it's good. 2) you can ohm it out, and compare it to the spec, and 3) you can see it in action by checking the A/C output while spinning the driveshaft by hand.
As to #2, IDK the spec. but I can offer a guess, probably less than 300 ohms, and more than 200.Ima guessing.
As to #3, You will need an analog meter, with a millivolt scale.Every time a reluctor vane passes by the sensor, it will generate an A/C spike. Some digital meters need a peak-hold feature to capture it. Not my dynosaur.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Johnny
There are just 60degrees between towers. It is possible to advance the timing to a point where the spark jumps to the wrong tower. But I'm pretty sure you knew that.
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Yes, but not @ 24 degrees.
Im just saying....it can come and go. I dont even think a ballast resistor can do this. It plays games with you because it runs fine one min, and dies the next. Let the car sit overnight after it died, walk outside, fires right up.

Drive it into town. Shut it off...dead again.

Sits for a half hour, fires right up.

Shut it off, and start it 30 more times..fine

Time 31. Dead in the water.

You'd think there is a little mopar ignition fairy under the hood playing with your coil wire.

For $13, id like to know its good. What's testing it gonna do? Show its working at that point in time? Sound to me like you are $30 into electrical tape, soldering gun, and connectors.....maybe time to just try s new pickup. Lol

Im sure autozone can cross ref the number I gave u. U will prob pay a little more for it though
 
AJ/FormS said:
Johnny
I think I got lost; are we talking about the OPs issue?
or an issue you have experienced?
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Both? I'm backing my claim that I believe it's the mag pickup.

I experienced the exact same issue he has, with the random no-start issues, and i was just describing that i went through the exact same thing years ago. I'm just adding my experience to the fire. Sorry if i confused anyone.
 
There is no doubt that the mag pickup "could" cause such a situation

One guy I ran into believes that some of them the magnet deteriorates.

Moisture is CERTAINLY a factor. Gets into the windings.......dirt and chemicals deteriorate the winding insulation......cause intermittent internal turn-to-turn shorts and "just plain" leakage.

You can NOT necessarily show that with resistance checks. Only some sort of dynamic or output test would show that. Since there is no such data, a guy would have to develop a tester, and say, test "a bunch" (maybe 50 or 100?) "known good" pickups to get a baseline.
 
67Dart273 said:
You can NOT necessarily show that with resistance checks. Only some sort of dynamic or output test would show that. Since there is no such data, a guy would have to develop a tester, and say, test "a bunch" (maybe 50 or 100?) "known good" pickups to get a baseline.
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And that is why I mentioned the dynamic test in my post, with the dizzy out, and spun by hand, with an analog meter reading the output spikes.
Of course you are right, it is highly unlikely that one could ever find a spec, and it's just as unlikely that a member would go out and procure a bunch to develop a test.
But in over 45 years of running, and tuning, Mopes I have only ever had one pick-up failure; and it failed the dynamic test.I stopped carrying a spare many years ago.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just saying.
 
Well, wouldn't hurt to try it then. I ordered the last one on the link you gave me because, well, it was 13 bucks and I could always return it. I don't have an analog meter but I'll ask around, maybe my old auto-shop teacher has one somewhere stuck in the back; still would be good to test it, just to be a little more sure. I don't doubt it failed; I've had some weird stuff happen to my Dart, lol. Appreciate all the input, gotta get 'er fixed before a cruise next week.
 
So I got the pickup in the mail today....question is, how do I remove it. I see one screw, and the vacuum advance pin. Do I just press that pin in and it can be removed?

Edit: Trying to gently lift. It seems like the area with the big pin is free, but something on the other side is caught. There's seem to be another pin? Do I use a screw driver just to pop it out?
 
Dodge72 said:
So I got the pickup in the mail today....question is, how do I remove it. I see one screw, and the vacuum advance pin. Do I just press that pin in and it can be removed?

Edit: Trying to gently lift. It seems like the area with the big pin is free, but something on the other side is caught. There's seem to be another pin? Do I use a screw driver just to pop it out?
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I think it is just hanging on the roll pin.
 
Do you just use a screwdriver to pry it out? It seems like it's in there good.

There's like a spring holding the bottom of the pin...how am I supposed to reach it?

EDIT: I got it. First time actually going through a distributor, actually isn't hard when ya have it figured out haha. Too bad it's dark now, I'd put it back in. I sure to wish it was summer; less rain and it wouldn't be dark until 9:30!
 
Make sure you have a good engine to body ground strap. Ran into this years ago and a bad ground strap from engine to body was it.

Good luck !!!
 
:banghead::banghead: So I managed to get the new magnetic pickup installed, gapped to .006" with brass feeler, timed it correctly. Time to drive. The Dart drove fantastic, more responsive than before I fixed the timing, idle was smooth,drove down to the gas station. Started back up, rode the highway home with great acceleration. Driving back home, thinking my problem is done, turned into my neighborhood and....stall. It fired right up in neutral, drove it back down the hill, then turned onto my road....stall. Fired up again, drove into the driveway. Stall. Angrily fired it up again, put it in reverse. Stall. What the?!

I was not giving gas into any of those turns, which can only point to a fuel or maybe even a vacuum issue. I just filled it up full with gas. I can only think that it's now leaning out...but it was totally fine in drive, idling when at a light. I tired hearing it before it stalled and it sounded like it ran out of gas, the idle just dropped too low. At least it fires up now..? I did reconnect the vacuum port to the distributor.
 
if your lean and the float level is super low, you could possibly stall it in a turn especially if you have power steering.
 
Way back, you mentioned that you thought the engine was worn because of oil on the spark plug. It looks normal to me. The tip is dry. Your spark plug sits in a removable aluminum tube (like a Hemi) and you can get oil down there and probably just got on the threads as you removed it. Next time you fool with the plugs, have a set of new rubber seals for the plug tubes. They are real cheap. Rockauto has most common parts for your engine cheap. If you do want to check if your engine has good compression without a gage, remove the oil fill cap while idling. If you don't feel puffing from the hole and out-gassing, your rings are probably fine. The PCV should actually be sucking a little air in. Also, turn over the engine by hand (key in pocket) by tugging on the fan belts. If you feel 3 strong "air springs" per rev (mark w/ chalk), your engine is probably excellent. Turn it clockwise (looking at it from the front), i.e. the crank should turn the same way you would turn a bolt. BTW, you can get a bolt to put in your crank and thus turn it over with a long socket wrench (I use a ratcheting clicky torque wrench from Harbor Freight).

Look at the engine idling at night in the dark. If you see faint flashes, that is arcing from the plug wires to ground and you need to change plug wires. That would be exacerbated by humid weather. The slant distributor is also subject to moisture where it sits low. My 69 slant wouldn't start on the Texas coast after a big rainstorm. The foreman sprayed WD-40 inside the distributor cap and it started right up. That was a gulf coast trick everybody but me seemed to know back then.
 
pishta said:
if your lean and the float level is super low, you could possibly stall it in a turn especially if you have power steering.
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I do have power steering. I haven't touched the carb in a while....is it possible that it could have gone lean from changing the timing?


BillGrissom...I know for a fact my engine is not in tip-top shape, haha. My rings are bad; I see the out-gassing if I were to take the oil fill cap off while idling. My compression isn't great, but I do feel the "spring" when I turn it by hand. Got a bolt down there too already; but my rachet is too clunky between the fan and radiator. Haven't watched it idle in the dark yet though, I'll have to check that out.
 
Went out driving today. Increased my idle speed and richened my mixture and tested it out around the neighborhood. Seems to work...idle went down but not stuttering or stalling. Great! Warmed it up with some cruising and riding for an hour. Fully warmed up, stopped for some lunch. Got it to go and came back. Car would not start. I checked under the hood. I have a plastic in line fuel filter and its bone dry! I looked down the throat of the carb. Its still getting fuel, but it hisses and comes back up as vapor. Has to be vapor lock? So I'll wait for a half an hour before trying again.


Edit: 40 minutes later. No start with or without pumping. Fuel filter full of fuel. This is getting ridiculous! I'm gonna have to walk home!

EDIT II: Some guy came over asking if I needed help. He wiggled my battery terminals then hopped into the drivers seat. Mind you, I haven't started the damn thing in over an hour....first few cranks, it fires right up. He told me he lifted up on the shifter lever while cranking, told me it's how he's started some cars. I was able to drive home. The second I turn it off though and try to turn it back on, it won't. I try pushing up like he did, nothing. Tried putting it in neutral. Nope. I locked the car after that. This is my one and only car and my daily driver, and I just cannot keep having this happen to me. But I don't know where to look now!
 
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