Questions about electronic vs HEI

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MrJLR

Built, not bought
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Can you guys help my understand the difference and benifits of electronic vs HEI Ignition?
My 'Cuda was converted to electronic ignition by the previous owner. ....
Should I go HEI? Huge benifits?
What's really the big difference?

Forgive my ignorance. .....

Jeff
 
This should convince you...........

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl0ks2o-DjQ"]Mopar ignition to GM style HEI - YouTube[/ame]
 
It is more likely the change in ignition also changed the timing advance in that video. Bump up the initial with the mopar ignition in the first half and it will smooth out about the same..... Not knocking HEI though.
 
From my understanding
electronic give you a more consistent spark time duration etc
at higher compression you loose spark intensity, so HEI gives you a hotter spark
 
If I may.

HEI is basically a hotter spark as compared to standard electronic ignition and can be had simply by changing coils to a different design as in the E and C core coils.
The benefits are better cold and hot starts, smoother more fuel efficient idle, and better fuel economy in most cases specifically because of the hotter spark allowing larger plug gaps, and therefore faster igniting and more complete burning of the available fuel.

HEI also has other advantages in the background that a lot of people don't realize.
The background advantages are that if the HEI type ignition modules are also used, you gain a few fairly noteworthy advantages.
Dwell for one, as dwell determines the charge time for the coil to get ready for the next spark and HEI modules control dwell much more efficiently giving the coil the correct time to charge fully.
One way it does this is by having full voltage (no ballast resistor) and therefore allowing the coil to get to full charge quicker.

The older four HEI pin modules you see around work well for what they are, but they do have disadvantages.
Four pin modules are more susceptible to death if they don't have the correct voltage, and also they cannot control engine timing, as well as being more prone to loose connections or atmospheric corrosion unless the person installing it goes to lengths to prevent that exposure.
The newer 7 and 8 pin modules can run in more adverse voltage and weather conditions, and are also capable of controlling engine timing for EFI systems as well as forced induction systems where the ignition timing has to be delayed (retarded) and can do this via commands from fuel delivery computer and sensor systems.
The 8 pin HEI modules are also weatherproof as far as their connections to the coil and modules with near zero atmospheric corrosion causing exposure making them more reliable.

Reliability and availability:
Try walking into a little Mom and Pop parts house and ask for an electronic box or ballast resistor for your car and see what happens.
"We can have one of those for you in 2 days" (or longer) is common.
Same with almost ALL aftermarket ignition systems.
HEI replacement parts are IN STOCK in every little parts house as they are so common in so many newer vehicles.

Buying a specific aftermarket HEI setup like the "All in one" distributors or similar puts you right back into the waiting for not in stock replacement parts, so keep that in mind when considering.

So,
1. Improved reliability
2. Hotter spark
3. More efficient spark control (dwell)
4. Better parts availability
5. Quicker starts
6. Improved fuel burn efficiency.

I build and sell HEI kits that are so easy to install you would probably be surprised, and don't have the drawbacks of proprietary parts that have to be ordered if you need to replace something.
They also use your existing electronic distributor, so replacing or recurving a whole new distributor is not needed.
I would venture an off the top guess that somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 FABO members are running my HEI kit right now, and another 10-15 non member orders have been filled.
In about 3 years 1 module failed and was replaced at zero cost to the owner, and we have telephone and email support for installation if needed.

The kits can be checked into and purchased here. www.classichei.com
 
If I may.

HEI is basically a hotter spark as compared to standard electronic ignition and can be had simply by changing coils to a different design as in the E and C core coils.
The benefits are better cold and hot starts, smoother more fuel efficient idle, and better fuel economy in most cases specifically because of the hotter spark allowing larger plug gaps, and therefore faster igniting and more complete burning of the available fuel.

HEI also has other advantages in the background that a lot of people don't realize.
The background advantages are that if the HEI type ignition modules are also used, you gain a few fairly noteworthy advantages.
Dwell for one, as dwell determines the charge time for the coil to get ready for the next spark and HEI modules control dwell much more efficiently giving the coil the correct time to charge fully.
One way it does this is by having full voltage (no ballast resistor) and therefore allowing the coil to get to full charge quicker.

The older four HEI pin modules you see around work well for what they are, but they do have disadvantages.
Four pin modules are more susceptible to death if they don't have the correct voltage, and also they cannot control engine timing, as well as being more prone to loose connections or atmospheric corrosion unless the person installing it goes to lengths to prevent that exposure.
The newer 7 and 8 pin modules can run in more adverse voltage and weather conditions, and are also capable of controlling engine timing for EFI systems as well as forced induction systems where the ignition timing has to be delayed (retarded) and can do this via commands from fuel delivery computer and sensor systems.
The 8 pin HEI modules are also weatherproof as far as their connections to the coil and modules with near zero atmospheric corrosion causing exposure making them more reliable.

Reliability and availability:
Try walking into a little Mom and Pop parts house and ask for an electronic box or ballast resistor for your car and see what happens.
"We can have one of those for you in 2 days" (or longer) is common.
Same with almost ALL aftermarket ignition systems.
HEI replacement parts are IN STOCK in every little parts house as they are so common in so many newer vehicles.

Buying a specific aftermarket HEI setup like the "All in one" distributors or similar puts you right back into the waiting for not in stock replacement parts, so keep that in mind when considering.

So,
1. Improved reliability
2. Hotter spark
3. More efficient spark control (dwell)
4. Better parts availability
5. Quicker starts
6. Improved fuel burn efficiency.

I build and sell HEI kits that are so easy to install you would probably be surprised, and don't have the drawbacks of proprietary parts that have to be ordered if you need to replace something.
They also use your existing electronic distributor, so replacing or recurving a whole new distributor is not needed.
I would venture an off the top guess that somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 FABO members are running my HEI kit right now, and another 10-15 non member orders have been filled.
In about 3 years 1 module failed and was replaced at zero cost to the owner, and we have telephone and email support for installation if needed.

The kits can be checked into and purchased here. www.classichei.com

Excellent write up - thank you!

Edit - checked out your website. .....nice stuff!
Looks like the way to go.....!!!!!

Thanks again!

Jeff
 

Might want to notice that some of those are non HEI, but just a stockish coil with an HEI ignition controller.

All the other ones are pretty much what I meant by waiting for replacement parts.
We also have no idea who makes, or what quality those plug wires are.
That said, those wouldn't be a bad deal at all for someone who needed everything starting from scratch.
 
The spark should be acceptable w/ either system. HEI loses the ballast, which eliminates one failure point. For those choosing, HEI is simpler retrofit wiring than the 70's Mopar box, but not the OP's issue. A more powerful spark might help with a higher compression engine and/or turbocharger, since it is harder to throw a spark at higher cylinder pressure.
 
The spark should be acceptable w/ either system. HEI loses the ballast, which eliminates one failure point. For those choosing, HEI is simpler retrofit wiring than the 70's Mopar box, but not the OP's issue. A more powerful spark might help with a higher compression engine and/or turbocharger, since it is harder to throw a spark at higher cylinder pressure.

Sorry, I must be missing something.
What was the OP's issue?
 
Sorry, I must be missing something.
What was the OP's issue?

Not an issue as much as I wanted to understand the difference between HEI vs electronic ignition.
I have electronic ignition currently, and was curious about the benefits of HEI and what it would take to go to HEI.....

Jeff
 
Not an issue as much as I wanted to understand the difference between HEI vs electronic ignition.
I have electronic ignition currently, and was curious about the benefits of HEI and what it would take to go to HEI.....

Jeff

I figured I didn't miss anything, but just wanted to make fun of Bill for getting mixed up on which post he was typing in. :D
I think that's what happened anyway?
 
I've got TrailBeast's system and I love it. Price was right, shipping was fast, install was a snap. What's not to love?

Russ.
 
We just recently converted my sons '65 Cuda hopped up 340 from the standard Mopar electronic to HEI. Much better cold start characteristics, plus smoother general operation. So the OP will like find it worthwhile.

(Of course it also helped to get rid of the wiring problem that had the alternator's field current going thought the ballast resistor! LOL)
 
Why is a hotter/higher voltage spark needed anyway? I'll tell you the only reason.

As compression and cylinder pressure goes up, the plug has more resistance to spark. That is the only one reason why extra spark is needed.

So, if you have a lower compression ratio and or lower cylinder pressure (a stock or mild engine) you don't need the extra spark from HEI, so it is merely bragging rights.
 
Mopar also makes ignition boxes made for higher cylinder pressure.
It seems to be luck of the draw when it comes to electronic parts.
I personally have only had two mopar electronic box's quit on me
in nearly 40 years. A few ballast also. Some seem to have worse luck
with them.
I have changed a few hei modules in my day also and feel it is the
nature of electronics to fail without warning. I see no advantage to one or the other myself.
I have given up on the msd stuff to be even less reliable than these electronics.
I find points to be the most reliable but don't use them on anything anymore.
Pretty much use chrome and gold box ignitions and tach drive distributors on everything.
Not the best for fuel mileage but precise, reliable and sturdy.
I would like to try a magneto on a driver some day and see how it compares.
 
Why is a hotter/higher voltage spark needed anyway? I'll tell you the only reason.

As compression and cylinder pressure goes up, the plug has more resistance to spark. That is the only one reason why extra spark is needed.

So, if you have a lower compression ratio and or lower cylinder pressure (a stock or mild engine) you don't need the extra spark from HEI, so it is merely bragging rights.
There is another factor to consider in the spark voltage and energy needed to properly ignite the mixture, and that is the A/F mixture ratio itself. It is a combination of both compression/pressure AND A/F ratio that determines the needed voltage/energy of the spark. So even a low compression engine will have times when the mixture is harder to properly fire, whenever the A/F changes a certain way.

With carbs, they tend to 'approximate' the proper A/F ratio but it will vary a LOT more around the ideal A/F ratio with a carb than with EFI. So there is a very real the benefit of HEI with any engine in properly firing the full range of operating A/F ratios AND pressures, even in low compression engines.
 
There is another factor to consider in the spark voltage and energy needed to properly ignite the mixture, and that is the A/F mixture ratio itself. It is a combination of both compression/pressure AND A/F ratio that determines the needed voltage/energy of the spark. So even a low compression engine will have times when the mixture is harder to properly fire, whenever the A/F changes a certain way.

With carbs, they tend to 'approximate' the proper A/F ratio but it will vary a LOT more around the ideal A/F ratio with a carb than with EFI. So there is a very real the benefit of HEI with any engine in properly firing the full range of operating A/F ratios AND pressures, even in low compression engines.

Exactly.
There is a notable difference in starting and running both even on low compression motors.
HEI leaves less unburned fuel in most all conditions.
 
If the mixture gets lit it makes no difference in the burn.
If it was done with a short gap set plug from a set of breaker points
or a long spark of an hei.
The problem is when it doesn't get lit. This is why points were replaced.
Points would bounce and no
 
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