No Wheel Weights!???

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threewood

threewood

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Trying to track down a high speed steering wheel shake. Wheels and tires are about 2 weeks old. New Cooper Cobra tires mounted on new Wheel Vintiques 63 Mopar steelies. No wheel weights on any of them, inside or out. No shaking with the old skinny 14" wheels and tires.
Odds that all four were in balance? Odds that someone forgot to balance the wheels?
 
Check the inside. Some tape them and some hammer them on the inner side. That's my choice. I don't want to see wheel weights.
 
One ounce off balance at 60 mph. exerts a force of 8 pounds on the heavy side of the tire. It doesn't take much.
 
Pulled them off and took them back. They all needed weights so the tech dropped the ball on the original install. On a happier note, it did give me reason to pull and replace the front wheel bearings.
 
someone told me there was a brand of tire (Bridgestone?) that had a little dot on the sidewall that denoted the location of the valve stem to facilitate balancing...BS? Still would need it but maybe it would need less?
 
pishta said:
someone told me there was a brand of tire (Bridgestone?) that had a little dot on the sidewall that denoted the location of the valve stem to facilitate balancing...BS? Still would need it but maybe it would need less?
Click to expand...

Never heard that but I will ask the guy that works with me Monday. He worked in a tire shop many years.
 
I always shake my head when I see new tires on a car, and the dots being anywhere but where they should be,, and hefty weights where there shouldn't be.. lol

They'll pretty much let anyone install tires now, without proper instruction.. sheesh

google it..
 
I was under the impression most tires had the lightest spot marked...
I work on motorcycles, and virtually all tires with the exception of Michelin are marked.
That said, if I spin it and it asks for a lot of weight, I will frequently re-orient the tire on the rim to lessen the amount of weight asked for...
 
The spots are said to be aligned to aid in balancing, however they seem to make more of a difference in tires with tpms senors than without, some tires have em some dont, most michelins dont have em
 
71beater said:
I was under the impression most tires had the lightest spot marked...
I work on motorcycles, and virtually all tires with the exception of Michelin are marked.
That said, if I spin it and it asks for a lot of weight, I will frequently re-orient the tire on the rim to lessen the amount of weight asked for...
Click to expand...

This^ If they call for a lot of weight i spin em up to 4 times. First 180 then 90 then 180 from that. If it still wants too much weight time for another tire. Ive only seen one tire that would not change by spinning it on the rim in the 6 years ive been changing them. I mounted tires on a dually and have seen them want 5.00 oz on the left plane and 7.00 oz on the right plane. Spin tire 180 and changed it to 3.00oz on the left plane and 2.75 oz on the right plane
 
71DodgeDemon340 said:
This^ If they call for a lot of weight i spin em up to 4 times. First 180 then 90 then 180 from that. If it still wants too much weight time for another tire. Ive only seen one tire that would not change by spinning it on the rim in the 6 years ive been changing them. I mounted tires on a dually and have seen them want 5.00 oz on the left plane and 7.00 oz on the right plane. Spin tire 180 and changed it to 3.00oz on the left plane and 2.75 oz on the right plane
Click to expand...

Great info, thanks!
 
It is possible to get a tire that requires no weights. Indicates a well made tire. Unlikely to have a set of 4 work out that way. Even with real good tires like a Michelin.
Make sure you have them Dynamic Balanced. It's a 2 plane balancing & is the right way to do it. Much better method.
The "dots" on the tires are there for mounting & valve stem orientation, but can be
RED or YELLOWand are positioned differently. RED is usually mounted opposite the valve stem and YELLOW at the valve stem.
Regardless of the dots(or no dots) the wheels need to be Dynamic Balanced.
As Toolmanmike points out the force is pretty great with only an small amount of imbalance. 2oz. of imbalance is equal to 20# of force against the pavement at highway speed & increases as speeds go up. This is why trailer tires need to be balance also.
 
The local tire shop around the corner gives me all the FREE wheel weights I want.. The people that pay $7.50 a wheel pay for them.All I have to do is pick them up off the street about a block from the tire shop. I can do this daily..... !
 
95teetee said:
better yet- balance beads.
Click to expand...

Your choice but I still need convinced that they work.

71DodgeDemon340 said:
This^ If they call for a lot of weight i spin em up to 4 times. First 180 then 90 then 180 from that. If it still wants too much weight time for another tire. Ive only seen one tire that would not change by spinning it on the rim in the 6 years ive been changing them. I mounted tires on a dually and have seen them want 5.00 oz on the left plane and 7.00 oz on the right plane. Spin tire 180 and changed it to 3.00oz on the left plane and 2.75 oz on the right plane
Click to expand...

That works quite well. I have done that many times with good results.

Lonewolf3165 said:
It is possible to get a tire that requires no weights. Indicates a well made tire. Unlikely to have a set of 4 work out that way. Even with real good tires like a Michelin.
Make sure you have them Dynamic Balanced. It's a 2 plane balancing & is the right way to do it. Much better method.
The "dots" on the tires are there for mounting & valve stem orientation, but can be
RED or YELLOWand are positioned differently. RED is usually mounted opposite the valve stem and YELLOW at the valve stem.
Regardless of the dots(or no dots) the wheels need to be Dynamic Balanced.
As Toolmanmike points out the force is pretty great with only an small amount of imbalance. 2oz. of imbalance is equal to 20# of force against the pavement at highway speed & increases as speeds go up. This is why trailer tires need to be balance also.
Click to expand...

Yes it is possible to get a tire that doesn't require weight. My last pair of 8R-19.5's had one that was perfect. The shop owner even came over and balanced it 3 times to make sure. The dots are for stem alignment and aligning the two seems to help. I always like to re-balance after a thousand miles. The balance always changes.
 
The story I have heard about the dots on the tires was it is for a reference point for remounting the tire after a repair or valve stem or TPMS replacement. Also heard it is used as a reference point if the tire rotates on the rim knocking it out of balance. A buddy of mine had that happen on a Ram pickup. One tire would rotate on the rim. Dealer remounted the tire, noted the mileage and sent him on the way. After about 150 miles, the tire had moved quite a bit, so the dealer replaced the tire and it still happened. The rim was found to be on the low end of tolerances, but still in tolerance, so the dealer used a liquid bead sealer to "solve" the problem.
 
bruceo2011 said:
The story I have heard about the dots on the tires was it is for a reference point for remounting the tire after a repair or valve stem or TPMS replacement. Also heard it is used as a reference point if the tire rotates on the rim knocking it out of balance. A buddy of mine had that happen on a Ram pickup. One tire would rotate on the rim. Dealer remounted the tire, noted the mileage and sent him on the way. After about 150 miles, the tire had moved quite a bit, so the dealer replaced the tire and it still happened. The rim was found to be on the low end of tolerances, but still in tolerance, so the dealer used a liquid bead sealer to "solve" the problem.
Click to expand...

The colored dots may be significant now for tpms systems but some brands have had dots for decades. I worked at tire stores back in the 70's and lining up the dots with the stems.
 
pishta said:
someone told me there was a brand of tire (Bridgestone?) that had a little dot on the sidewall that denoted the location of the valve stem to facilitate balancing...BS? Still would need it but maybe it would need less?
Click to expand...

Every tire company has that. Most tire guys these days have no idea what it's for, but old dogs like me line them up with the valve stem for optimal balance.

I have seen tires take no weights, but it's rare, and I know damn well two on the same car is never going to happen. Glad they took care of it.
 
toolmanmike said:
Your choice but I still need convinced that they work.
Click to expand...
Well...they work. Convinced?
:D

I mean, you put them in the tire and drive. That's about all there is to it.

My brother runs them in all his mopars (and I have them in my Duster's tires).

The only time I ever noticed a difference (or an advantage over wheel weights, I should say) was when I was in the oil patch and had them in my work truck's tires- after driving on muddy roads, the mud sticking inside the rims didn't affect balance nearly as much as with static wheel weights- when mud built up, the beads would redistribute themselves to smooth out the ride (to an extent, of course- a few ounces of balance beads won't correct for 5 or 10 pounds of mud in one spot on the rim lol).
 
I really dont think the dots really matter, if its balanced its balanced right? I still line em up when they are on there just as a force of habit. However a lot of tires that have raised white letter only put the dots on the white letter side. So if running black wall out you know how much of a pain it is to line em up on the backside lol? Especially with most shops being a bang bang bang in and out i doubt they would take the time to repeatedly spin the tire and tae it off the tire machine to see if the dot is lined up on the backside. Honestly i have seen tires balance out with low amount of weights when the dot wasnt lined up and call for a lot of weight when the dot was lined up. Type of rim usually makes a difference too. I put a set of 4 michelins on a 2012 f150 the other day. Tires were 265/60r18 michelins and the truck had the factory alloy wheels and they took no more than 2.50 oz on either plane
 
71DodgeDemon340 said:
I really dont think the dots really matter, if its balanced its balanced right? I still line em up when they are on there just as a force of habit. However a lot of tires that have raised white letter only put the dots on the white letter side. So if running black wall out you know how much of a pain it is to line em up on the backside lol? Especially with most shops being a bang bang bang in and out i doubt they would take the time to repeatedly spin the tire and tae it off the tire machine to see if the dot is lined up on the backside. Honestly i have seen tires balance out with low amount of weights when the dot wasnt lined up and call for a lot of weight when the dot was lined up. Type of rim usually makes a difference too. I put a set of 4 michelins on a 2012 f150 the other day. Tires were 265/60r18 michelins and the truck had the factory alloy wheels and they took no more than 2.50 oz on either plane
Click to expand...

I usually use the yellow crayon used for writing the customer's name, or valve stem position on a tire to be re-mounted, or to mark a nail hole, and put a corresponding mark on the"un-spotted"/visible side, saves all the pain you're experiencing..

Using 3 1/2 oz of weight to balance a tire that may require little or no weight if the tire is positioned correctly, is irresponsible if given the choice, and dots are avail on either side. jmo . I just have high standards in my shops, and expect better.

Mounting a used tire, no dots, I'll break the bead and swing the tire a few times if the weight seems excessive.

I've maybe had 15 wheels balance perfectly over 4 decades and hundreds of wheels.. lol

hope it helps . . cheers.
 
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