O.d.

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cuda620

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Will mopars overdrive version of the 4 speed hold up to a 451 stroker or a well built 340 stroker? If so, Can I run a lakewood bellhousing and can I run a Pistol grip shifter on it? Going in a 76 A body. Appears to be only thing available that don't require cutting up the car???
 
If driven carefully, yes. If driven like everyone drives a hot rod, no.
 
So not as bullet proof as the regular 4 speeds huh? That sucks. Next option 727 with a gear vendors.....
 
So not as bullet proof as the regular 4 speeds huh? That sucks. Next option 727 with a gear vendors.....

No sir. Almost.....but enough difference that the power you're talking about would find a way out.
 
And why can't you put in a 4 speed ? You can put a pistol grip on anything...
 
ovd has a larger bearing retainer. scattershield for one is very rare. they do exist but rare.
 
ovd has a larger bearing retainer. scattershield for one is very rare. they do exist but rare.
I'm sure any machine shop could make the whole larger, but a scatter shield for an overdrive is literally ridiculous.
 
I'm sure any machine shop could make the whole larger, but a scatter shield for an overdrive is literally ridiculous.

op asked about overdrive behind a 451 or well built 340. Both motors are going to want to rev. He wants a scatter shield to keep his life and feet intact. Have you ever seen a flywheel/clutch explosion ? not ridiculous he is a smart man
 
op asked about overdrive behind a 451 or well built 340. Both motors are going to want to rev. He wants a scatter shield to keep his life and feet intact. Have you ever seen a flywheel/clutch explosion ? not ridiculous he is a smart man
Oh yeah he's real smart all right? He doesn't know if he can put a pistol grip on a shifter? He doesn't know if he wants a 451 Stroker which I personally have never heard of or well-built 340 he doesn't know what overdrive tranny can handle and can't ? He should get a scatter shield and wear it over his head ! Please name how many personal times you've seen a Mopar flywheel scatter?
 
Sorry cuda620 I didn't mean any disrespect. Just having a hard time understanding why you can't put together 4-speed behind such a great sounding motor combination and if you get that motor combination together of course a scatter Shield would be very safe.
I'm the king of dumb questions around here!!
 
Oh yeah he's real smart all right? He doesn't know if he can put a pistol grip on a shifter? He doesn't know if he wants a 451 Stroker which I personally have never heard of or well-built 340 he doesn't know what overdrive tranny can handle and can't ? He should get a scatter shield and wear it over his head ! Please name how many personal times you've seen a Mopar flywheel scatter?

Easy boy. We all started somewhere.

The problem with the OD 4 speed is, the counter shaft spins with the main shaft. That's a lotta weight and a lot more stress. The outcome will not be favorable. It's really that simple.
 
Easy boy. We all started somewhere.

The problem with the OD 4 speed is, the counter shaft spins with the main shaft. That's a lotta weight and a lot more stress. The outcome will not be favorable. It's really that simple.
Check my next post I apologize and called myself King dumb..
 
Would the OD last behind a warmed up small block as long as you don't powershift into 4th gear? Also it would have a drawback because of the the gear ratios right? Thats what I have currently have in my truck and I am debating whether to just run the OD or pick up a regular 833. Would mostly just be driving normally but occasionally would like to get on it. Just want to make sure the OD will live. Thanks
 
I wouldn't power shift one at all. They weren't made for it.

The standard A-833 wasn't made for it, but they hold up. Most times.
 
Ok thanks. I was always told just don't shift hard into 4th- because its a od. Think maybe I will just pick up a regular 833 when I am ready.
 
2 jpar and one of those was a 390 ford in 1967 fastback mustang. no reason to ever want to see another. flywheel explosions are very rare today. This is due to better metals and better heat treating. That said it still happens. you don't see it because scatter shields are mandatory in most classes. the clutch/basket is just as dangerous

451 is 400 block with a 440 crank. mains are turned down to 383/400 standard. counter weights are also turned down. what we did before stroker cranks became the norm. Made high revving low deck that appears like a stock 383 in road runner etc. Not a good option today as chinese cranks are stronger than mopar factory cranks. especially once you turn through the heat treat on a factory crank.

To the op sorry for getting your original post off track. I would not run a overdrive behind anything other than a very mild small block. And then only if it was rebuilt. They are very desirable for some of the parts that they have that can be used in a standard 4 speed.
 
I will be pushing the boundries running my truck OD 4 speed behind this warm 56 Chrysler 331 Hemi. But then, all I want is to cruise and have fun.
 
Oh yeah he's real smart all right? He doesn't know if he can put a pistol grip on a shifter? He doesn't know if he wants a 451 Stroker which I personally have never heard of or well-built 340 he doesn't know what overdrive tranny can handle and can't ? He should get a scatter shield and wear it over his head ! Please name how many personal times you've seen a Mopar flywheel scatter?


He's smart enough to know what a 451 stroker is (even if you've never personally heard of one): http://arengineering.com/tech/451-manifesto/

He's also smart enough to ask if the OD transmission will stand up behind one before going down the wrong path.

Why be an @$$ about it?
 
He's smart enough to know what a 451 stroker is (even if you've never personally heard of one): http://arengineering.com/tech/451-manifesto/

He's also smart enough to ask if the OD transmission will stand up behind one before going down the wrong path.

Why be an @$$ about it?
I apologized twice already now if you read everything once to the original poster and once to Triple R or explain to Triple are already posted an apology I'm calling myself dumb? The whole thread is not making sense as he knows how to make a 451 Stroker and maybe even have the money to buy a 340 and heat it up and wants to scatter Shield for an overdrive transmission? Maybe the scatter Shield should go the length of the transmission as it's likely the transmission will scatter long before the flywheel does? It's just sounds like a lot of cloud talk quite honestly but again if this forum needs another apology for me being a jack wheel here it is I'm sorry okay I reserve the right to not be perfect!
Actually it was misguided frustration at acpat's first post.
 
To the OP, one option would be to go with a regular 833 4 speed and a gear vendor. That is what I'm considering with my 82 D150. Seems like the best of both worlds. I too will be going with a stroked big block.
 
Not in high gear.

The countershaft always turns. Period.

The difference is, the 4 speed OD is not really a 4 speed OD but it is a 4 speed that Chrysler modified the shift rods so that when the shifter HANDLE is put into the 3rd gear position, the gear box is actually in 4th gear, which is direct. All that means is the disc, input and main shaft are all turning in the same speed. That would be crank speed.

To get it to overdrive, you put the handle in the 4th gear position, but the gear box is actually now in 3rd gear. And since you can never turn something overdrive that is directly driven, the engineers made 3rd gear overdriven. That's how they have an overdrive.

Does NOT matter what the trans is, the counter gear is always turning. Is power moving through the counter gear? In every gear but the direct gear, which is 4th in a standard box, and what they call 3rd gear in the overdrive box (which, as I said is really 4th gear, but you flip the 3-4 lever down instead of up and it changes what gear you are in, relative to shifter handle position).

Is the OD really any weaker? Depends on who you ask. I have only used one on the street, and that was 1980 on accident. We tried to break it, but never did. Didn't have much HP, but we would get blind drunk and beat the snot out of it. We finally gave up. Obviously, more HP and bite, or a bad clutch and I could have destroyed it.

I was told the counter gears are what are weak. They have a different bearing arrangement or something. Use one with caution.

One last thing. It is beyond silly and cheap to run a stick and NOT use a scatter shield. In fact, I would call it downright IGNORANT and STUPID. You don't need to fail a flywheel, or a disc or the pressure plate to need a scatter shield. Doo doo occurs. We are all human and make mistakes. It is arrogance that breeds perfection in our own minds. Why am I anal about this?

I bought my first scatter shield in the summer of 1981 and all my friends (who were mainly stick guys) thought I was stupid. And arrogant. The rules didn't call for it, so they thought I just wanted to be overkill. I had never seen a clutch failure, but I damn sure figured that at some point, they had issues, or why make certain cars use them? And I was very abusive on parts back in the day.

The weekend before Labor Day (and incidentally, one week before the big GO) there was an AHRA National event at my local track. I had waited for it all year. All the hot dogs were gonna be there, but most didn't show, because they were focused on Indy. Saw my first mountain motor Pro Stocks that weekend. Yuill brothers showed up. Pretty cool. Anyway, there happened to be a goodly amount of stick cars there, and as the faster cars came up, my buddy and I walked up to the starting line. I will NEVER FORGET what happened next.

A Pontiac pulled up, and he was a stick. It was about 10:15 so the track was tight. He was in the tower lane, not 50 feet from me and my buddy, if that. They stage the cars and the Pontiac goes to the mat. I don't think he got his foot off the clutch and there was a VIOLENT EXPLOSION. As the car in the other lane left and things got relatively quiet, I realized my ears were ringing, and I could still hear the sounds of metallic parts hitting each other and the ground. Everyone was stunned. Finally, the driver got out, and we could see him limping, and his right foot was bloodied up. He went to the ambulance and they drug the car back to the pits.

We made it over to the car, right after the driver and his brother, who owned the car got there. The damage was almost unbelievable. It shredded the tunnel. Blew the dash up in the center. The cab was peppered with shrapnel. The engine, transmission and shifter were JUNK! The driver not only had some serious foot issues, his fruit salad was hit by flying debris and he said that was hurt worse than his foot (I would think so).

We talked for a bit, and then they wrote "for sale" on the back window. The brothers decided they were done. To my knowledge, they never raced again. You can say they were pussies, or they were cowards. Maybe they were. But we heard the explosion. We felt the concussion. Our ears were ringing. And the damage was almost unexplainable. From a single clutch explosion. So what happened? Was it junk parts? Was it driver abuse?

Nope, it was FATIGUE. In 1981 a mid 11 second car was pretty damned fast and he was in the mid 11's. On Friday, they tore up a disc on the last run. Probably about 9 PM. Being the racers they were, they had spare parts at home. They pulled it apart at the track, and left with the flywheel. They called their engine builder who met them at 6 the next morning and surfaced the FW for them. Back to the track and they slapped it back together. It was their first run of the day, and as far as I ever knew, the last one they ever made. In a hurry, tired from breaking their asses just to get there, running their first National Event and then killing a clutch Friday night, they just were too tired to rely on their own ability to function with out sleep and operate on motor function alone. Neither one torqued the flywheel bolts. One ASSUMED the other had done it. The results were spectacular, horrifying and devastating. The driver could have been killed. The car was pretty much junk.

The moral of the story is simple. The thing we love to do it inherently extremely dangerous. It needn't be a parts failure that gets you. It could be a simple routine, mundane task that gets overlooked. The results are, never the less, paid in money, blood and possibly, a life. I take this crap very serious. I don't care who you are, if you are using a stick, and you are going to go out and treat it like you stole it, then don't be a cheap *** and buy a SCATTER SHIELD. Anything else is dumb. It don't matter if the rules don't say you need it, you MUST have it, you MUST have it. Take a 30 pound flywheel, add a 10-12 pound disc, and a 30 or so pound pressure plate and bolt them up. You now have 70 pounds of ballistic projectile. Now, add RPM to that mass and you get the ability to kill, very easily.

My apologies to the OP. I did not intend to jack this thread. When someone is ridiculed for wanting safety equipment, that is complete and utter stupidity. Any car with bite SHOULD have a scatter shield on it. PERIOD. I appreciate that an apology was made. That was right and good. But the fact remains that very few people have seen a clutch failure, for any reason. If you did, you would only ridicule the fool who doesn't want one.

I hope my long ramble just may change on mind.
 
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