Borg & Beck Pressure Plate Springs

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mopardude62

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I have a 1967 Barracuda that came with a 9 1/2" clutch disk and Auburn style pressure plate. During an engine rebuild, I went with a 10" clutch disk and Borg & Beck style pressure plate I got from a clutch shop here locally.

That new pressure plate is plenty stout and I'd like to replace the springs with lighter ones. Looking through my 1967 Plymouth Service Manual it looks like the springs come in different colors from the factory.

Does anyone know the "order" of increasing spring pressures? For example, from lightest to heaviest pressures...... white, pink, tan, red, black, blue and no paint (obviously that is a guess). I'm not sure what color of springs are in there now. If I pull it out and find 9 red springs, then I need to know what the next lightest spring would be.
 
Do you have the overcenter spring up in the pedals? That is there to help work the B&B's heavier spring pressures. I'd do that before changing the pressure plate springs.

Over-center spring install question...

This may not be of any help but from my '62 FSM is shows for V8 clutches:
Orange spring 162 lbs at 1.5"
No color spring 189 lbs at 1.5"
White spring 201 lbs at 1.5"
Red spring 236 lbs at 1.81" (This is in the /6 section so many not be a V8 PP spring.)

Also, it seems common to make small adjustments to total spring pressures by changing out just one spring in each of the 3 sets, or even to leave a spring out in each set (which is a pretty radical change). If any are left out, they need to be all symmetircaly arrangedl.
 
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I do have the overcenter spring up in the pedals. I have not changed anything out except the pressure plate and of course the disk itself. The car was a 4-speed and I just went from the old 9 1/2" three-finger Auburn style pressure plate to the Borg & Beck style pressure plate so I could use the 10" clutch disk without changing out my 122 tooth flywheel. My 1967 FSM lists the 10" Borg & Beck pressure plate as the one used for the /6 engine.
 
I'd have a HP clutch rebuilder replace them for your application. A good shop should be able to do you what you want and readjust everything so it works great.
 
Thanks 66fs. Yea, we had a great shop here but the man died in Oct 2014 and his kids closed it up. There is another shop in town but I have never been able to work with them or get them to listen to me. They have that "You don't know anything, we've been in business for 40 years" attitude. They actually sold me a Borg & Beck #1576 pressure plate and it was not set up right. I tried to tell them it didn't release and the spring pressure was too great. After telling me twice they had it fixed, installing it and dropping the motor/tranny back in the car only to discover it still didn't work, I gave up and ordered a new pressure plate from Brewers. It's still not like it was, but the car runs and I can live with it for a little while. I'm going to school myself all I can on pressure plates and make sure I know what I'm talking about so I can spot someone trying to jerk me around before I swap parts again.
 
Since you bought the present piece from Brewer's, maybe just give them a call. Is the engine here a /6?
 
No it's a 318. My car originally had a 273 but the block cracked and I just put a stock 318 in it. I changed pressure plates when I did the swap then pulled it back out again because the clutch was extremely stiff, popped that twangy spring sound when I depressed the pedal and was VERY difficult to disengage after I ran it on the highway. This is not a high performance car, but thought it could benefit from a little larger diameter clutch.

I'm not very happy with Brewers either because part of my disengagement issue was the clutch disk they sold me was .355 thick and I had to pull the tranny to swap in a thinner clutch disk. I could not get it to release with the adjustment nut all the way to the end, so I had to pull the PP again and swap the disk. I'm trying to stay positive here but I'm frustrated these shops like Brewers should know a stock clutch disk is only .305 thick.
 
Thanks 66fs. Yea, we had a great shop here but the man died in Oct 2014 and his kids closed it up. There is another shop in town but I have never been able to work with them or get them to listen to me. They have that "You don't know anything, we've been in business for 40 years" attitude. They actually sold me a Borg & Beck #1576 pressure plate and it was not set up right. I tried to tell them it didn't release and the spring pressure was too great. After telling me twice they had it fixed, installing it and dropping the motor/tranny back in the car only to discover it still didn't work, I gave up and ordered a new pressure plate from Brewers. It's still not like it was, but the car runs and I can live with it for a little while. I'm going to school myself all I can on pressure plates and make sure I know what I'm talking about so I can spot someone trying to jerk me around before I swap parts again.

Wow, well at least you know who not to deal with. I might give someone one chance, if I really like them. What engine and car are we talking about? It would probably be worth it to send it to someone good. I have a couple of 10 in B & B Pressure Plates, one from PST and another from another good rebuilder. If it is a hot 273, I'm looking at a few out of the box solutions, but I'm not ready to recommend anything yet. I've had good luck calling people like McLeod, but they do not like the 10 in B & B plate for what I had and how I was going to use it, so that started me looking at alternatives. If you want, let me know and I'll try to find who did my last Pressure Plate. The one in my 66 works perfectly, except it is beginning to slip in 4th. It has nice release and pressure.
 
Thanks 66fs. Yea, we had a great shop here but the man died in Oct 2014 and his kids closed it up. There is another shop in town but I have never been able to work with them or get them to listen to me. They have that "You don't know anything, we've been in business for 40 years" attitude. They actually sold me a Borg & Beck #1576 pressure plate and it was not set up right. I tried to tell them it didn't release and the spring pressure was too great. After telling me twice they had it fixed, installing it and dropping the motor/tranny back in the car only to discover it still didn't work, I gave up and ordered a new pressure plate from Brewers. It's still not like it was, but the car runs and I can live with it for a little while. I'm going to school myself all I can on pressure plates and make sure I know what I'm talking about so I can spot someone trying to jerk me around before I swap parts again.
hi, you can fix it your self. bolt it with disc to flywheel on bench. loosen the three bolts on top equally until they are removed, then loosen pressure plate bolts equally until the hat is free. can remove the hat. be sure to not to loose any shims between the hat and lever pivots, have springs pressure tested to find the right combination. installed height is what you have to use , just like a valve spring. set springs back in base, set hat back on, slowly tighten down the bolts to flywheel, once they are tight, then install three hat bolts and tighten down. release pressure plate bolts , clutch is done. reason, I know about this, is I did this same thing years ago on my 273 dart. my clutch worked great. later on, I did same to my 340 clutch, changing base pressures, it's not rocket science, have to pay attention to details. pvt message me if you like.
 
If it is your 67 convertible, I'd go to the 130 tooth, 10.5 / 10.95 clutch setup. It is easy for you.
 
No it's a 318. My car originally had a 273 but the block cracked and I just put a stock 318 in it. I changed pressure plates when I did the swap then pulled it back out again because the clutch was extremely stiff, popped that twangy spring sound when I depressed the pedal and was VERY difficult to disengage after I ran it on the highway. This is not a high performance car, but thought it could benefit from a little larger diameter clutch.

I'm not very happy with Brewers either because part of my disengagement issue was the clutch disk they sold me was .355 thick and I had to pull the tranny to swap in a thinner clutch disk. I could not get it to release with the adjustment nut all the way to the end, so I had to pull the PP again and swap the disk. I'm trying to stay positive here but I'm frustrated these shops like Brewers should know a stock clutch disk is only .305 thick.
you are correct, standard disc is .305 thick, friend of mine went through same with his clutch disc from brewers, his was .350 thick, clutch wouldn't release correctly, we ended up shimming pressure with . 050 shims to make it right. you can do same with your 10 " clutch if don't want to tear it apart. mcloed, uses shims on some of their racing dual disc setups with diaphragm pressure plate. only way to adjust base pressure with those .
 
If it is your 67 convertible, I'd go to the 130 tooth, 10.5 / 10.95 clutch setup. It is easy for you.
hi, that's a pain in the ***, have to use different bell housing, flywheel , clutch, floor pan has to be massaged to fit it in, z bar has to be modified to fit. can get expensive. I been that route already. as for the 10 " clutch, not being enough, is wrong, the soft loc we use is 10" long. it's used on high hp stockers and super stockers. they are low base pressure units.
 
hi, that's a pain in the ***, have to use different bell housing, flywheel , clutch, floor pan has to be massaged to fit it in, z bar has to be modified to fit. can get expensive. I been that route already. as for the 10 " clutch, not being enough, is wrong, the soft loc we use is 10" long. it's used on high hp stockers and super stockers. they are low base pressure units.

No special parts to fit, if it is a 67. You just use 67 up 318, 340, 360 A body A833 set up. Floor pan is the same.
Are you running a 10" long pressure plate? What is it in? If you are using a 10" long pressure plate, what flywheel are you using and what finger height? A 10" long pressure plate does not bolt up to a stock flywheel. How much is a soft loc setup? Not sure that is the nonexpensive route.
 
I have checked in to going to the 10.5 inch clutch setup. It gets expensive, bell housing, flywheel, pressure plate, clutch disk, release fork and z-bar are all different. I was trying to save money by just popping in the bigger pressure plate and keep everything else the same. Like I said, it's just a parade car not anything high performance so a 10" clutch should do the trick. If I was closer perfacar, I'd sure love to work with you on how you did all that. I'll get it straightened out.
 
Listen to perfacar.

You could have shimmed the cover and not swapped the disc, but it is what it is now.

Sounds like you are closer than before.

Keep us posted.
 
I have checked in to going to the 10.5 inch clutch setup. It gets expensive, bell housing, flywheel, pressure plate, clutch disk, release fork and z-bar are all different. I was trying to save money by just popping in the bigger pressure plate and keep everything else the same. Like I said, it's just a parade car not anything high performance so a 10" clutch should do the trick. If I was closer perfacar, I'd sure love to work with you on how you did all that. I'll get it straightened out.
A good 10 in Borg and Beck PP should work for you and a stockish 318. I'd also like to know more about what it takes to run a "Long" 10 in PP in a stock 9.5 in bellhousing.
 
A good 10 in Borg and Beck PP should work for you and a stockish 318. I'd also like to know more about what it takes to run a "Long" 10 in PP in a stock 9.5 in bellhousing.
I was referring to the comment, a 10 " pressure plate wasn't enough clutch!! we run scatter shields, it fits 10 1/2 flywheel, pay attention, the 10 " B&B will perform very well for him. in fact, mcloed sells , smaller diameter clutchs, why they told him his wasn't enough, is a mystery to me!! it's like anything else, you figure it out, make it work! you can rework the 10 " B&B like I said, and end up with any base pressure you desire , by swapping springs. if, you like, when I did mine, I installed B&B fingers from a 10 1/2 pressure plate , made clutch work even better!! I drove it and raced it with that setup. yes, I'm a clutch guy.
 
I was referring to the comment, a 10 " pressure plate wasn't enough clutch!! we run scatter shields, it fits 10 1/2 flywheel, pay attention, the 10 " B&B will perform very well for him. in fact, mcloed sells , smaller diameter clutchs, why they told him his wasn't enough, is a mystery to me!! it's like anything else, you figure it out, make it work! you can rework the 10 " B&B like I said, and end up with any base pressure you desire , by swapping springs. if, you like, when I did mine, I installed B&B fingers from a 10 1/2 pressure plate , made clutch work even better!! I drove it and raced it with that setup. yes, I'm a clutch guy.

I pay attention more than most. McLeod does not sell "off the shelf" clutches for the 122 tooth flywheel any more. As a matter of fact, Red himself put me off of the 10 inch B & B pressure plate. He did not think the Hat was strong enough. When I was younger, 40 years ago, I made a lot of things work. Now, I want to find someone who knows what they are talking about, has done it, and can give me the straight scoop without BS or Drama. I have the patience to do the research and can afford to do it right the first time. Not many guys left of your caliber. It is not worth any, that I can find, manufacturers time to do the 122 tooth flywheel high performance clutch solution, which the OP does not need. I'll dork with it a little while longer since I want to keep the "stock" 66 273 clutch setup myself. I have a custom B & B Long 10.95 pressure plate and Ansen scatter shield that I know will work. The $2500 Soft Lok 10" Long solution obviously only works with the 130 tooth flywheel setup. Thanks for your time.
 
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