Stalls in Gear, Automatic- Restarts Good- Can Slam it into Gear! EEEK

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Ferdinandbites said:
i had great trouble maintaining the idle even with the screw turned all the way in. so
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Why are you screwing with the metering rod(s) at idle?

It might be flooding over the top and dripping fuel into the throats? Doe it make a frying spitting sound when idling?
 
Phreakish said:
It's possible the chain jumped,
.
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I almost mentioned this. If you look through the factory shop manual, there's a procedure in there for checking the chain / valve timing, and valve timing for factory cams is listed in the back of the engine section, "specifications"
 
Ferdinandbites said:
yes, I rebuilt it with the kit. i will reinstall the other gasket. thank you
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I and other members have encountered this however, if the problem was occurring before the carb rebuild I think there is another issue.
 
define "compression good".......... two things to me come to mind, first is a bad timing chain, chk. your compression, u want somewhere in the 125 psi mark. sounds like it is stretched a little to far.........second is as others have said, a fuel delivery problem. sounds like the carb is bleeding over and causing a flooding condition. get a fuel regulator to drop the pressure, or get a carter mechanical pump.
higgs
 
He never really was clear as to weather it will idle after its in gear, but sort of sounds like the torque converter if I am reading all this correctly.
 
67Dart273 said:
Why are you screwing with the metering rod(s) at idle?
because it wouldn't stay running at all unless I kept my foot on the gas.
It might be flooding over the top and dripping fuel into the throats? Doe it make a frying spitting sound when idling?
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yes it did that's why I rebuilt the carb. yes it makes that sound still but very little now that carb was rebuilt and idle rods lifted.
 
67Dart273 said:
I almost mentioned this. If you look through the factory shop manual, there's a procedure in there for checking the chain / valve timing, and valve timing for factory cams is listed in the back of the engine section, "specifications"
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in order to check the timing marks if this is what u r saying I believe I have to take the cover and water pump off to check. I was thinking of doing this because when I rock the crank pulley back and forth there isn't any movement at the distributor for a bit. I think there might be some slop in the chain. again other than some spitting minor stumble of the engine I would never know theres a timing issue
 
replicaracer43 said:
He never really was clear as to weather it will idle after its in gear, but sort of sounds like the torque converter if I am reading all this correctly.
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it will not idle once in gear. I can only get it in gear if I rev the **** out of it like 2000 plus rpms then it will slam into gear and stay running at the rpm but I dare not keep it more than a few seconds because it useless to continue anyway. any other way it stalls immedialty.
 
Ferdinandbites said:
Could use some old school help on my 76 Dodge Dart 318 Automatic. I've been trying to figure out why the engine stalls when I put it into gear (restarts immediately) and I've run out of ideas. There isn't anyone around that knows how to work on this thing that I can find, dealership, aftermarket garages other than me. Here's what I have done up until now and not only to correct this problem.
Compression good, new spark plugs, wire set, rotor, distributor cap, ignition coil, ignition module, set pick up gap because reluctor was touching pick up, ballast resistor, pcv, fuel electric pump, 7 psi pressure checked, new fuel filter, rebuilt carb, double checked float level and for holes, idles mint, starts mint, sweet spot with timing light, no vacuum leaks other than small one at egr which aprears that it was designed that way but replaced intake manifold gaskets, cleaned grounds, fluid levels up, . If I reve rpms high I can slam into gear and take off. Coming to a stop stalls but restarts. Doesn't seem to shudder just stalls. I can turn idle screw all that way up no difference. Cleaned firewall electrical connector real good. Doesn't have a lock up torque converter and a transmission guy said he didn't think that would be the problem unless bad shutter coming to stop. Good ground to distributor. Vacuum is good on my gauge can't remember the reading right now but its in the green kinda thing on the gauge (20 inches).
Any help would be much appreciated.
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The dist should turn along with crank rotation back and forth with only a small dead-band with no motion.
If theres enough slop in the chain, you probably jumped the chain one tooth.
It's now retarded and the engine cannot make enough vacuum to sustain idle at normal speeds. Another clue would be how fast it cranks. If it doesn't sound like the starter is doing the hard work of compression when the engine's hot, but spins the motor fast, that's another reason to suspect the chain jumped and your timing is retarded.
One more question, when you do drive it and let it run up rpm under hard acceleration, did the upper rpm performance seem "improved"?
That also happens if you jump one tooth.
 
Darthomas said:
The dist should turn along with crank rotation back and forth with only a small dead-band with no motion.
If theres enough slop in the chain, you probably jumped the chain one tooth.
It's now retarded and the engine cannot make enough vacuum to sustain idle at normal speeds. Another clue would be how fast it cranks. If it doesn't sound like the starter is doing the hard work of compression when the engine's hot, but spins the motor fast, that's another reason to suspect the chain jumped and your timing is retarded.
One more question, when you do drive it and let it run up rpm under hard acceleration, did the upper rpm performance seem "improved"?
That also happens if you jump one tooth.
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This whole adventure started with a crapy running engine. It missed like a dead cylinder but just couldn't locate the problem. Changed all these components, rebuilt the carb replaced the intake gasket which all contributed in some way to making this thing run quite well in the end even if it meant readjusting the metering rods to increase the idle. The thing is that stumble has not completely gone away and I think you r on to something here. There is play yes in the chain but I can't tell you if that amount is excessive. From my few interactions with internal components such as short block stuff yes the free play doesn't seem right I think. When I move that pulley it's not an immediate transfer to the distributor. This is why I have to now check the timing marks. As for cranking ya I think u r right it always sounded easy to turn over, like this since I first bought it like this. But I also know it's a gear reduction old school starter so that might account for how easily it turns over. As a teen I rebuild dozens of those things as a side note. Up until what I have done it's been difficult to talk about how this performed other than it took long to get to a high enough speed because it would miss so bad it was better to accelerate slowly with the pedal because that made it miss less,if that makes any sense. Had acceleration made it runs horribly. I wonder if I did jump a tooth and possibly a second because I thought I was in the clear on how this thing ran but it's got so bad I can't even take it out of gear as u now know. I don't even think I took it out of the driveway up until this gear stalling business started.
 
replicaracer43 said:
He never really was clear as to weather it will idle after its in gear, but sort of sounds like the torque converter if I am reading all this correctly.
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I should make this clearer I can only keep it running in gear with high rpms. Engine will stall with normal idle when switched into gear. 2000 plus rpms will keep engine running when changing into gear and running in gear . Will restart immediately like one to two seconds to restart. I turned the idle up in hopes of being able to have it continue to run when switched into any gear.
 
hollywood hig said:
define "compression good".......... two things to me come to mind, first is a bad timing chain, chk. your compression, u want somewhere in the 125 psi mark. sounds like it is stretched a little to far.........second is as others have said, a fuel delivery problem. sounds like the carb is bleeding over and causing a flooding condition. get a fuel regulator to drop the pressure, or get a carter mechanical pump.
higgs
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Compression in the the 125 area. As for the carb after I rebuilt it it improved the fuel dripping from the one jet but not the other. Read some blog and found my fast idle screw too high rpms. So readjusted lower and then I could adjust idle screws then it ran great. But once the fast idle is adjusted too high it drips fuel again and runs like crap. So low rpms proper idle,runs great but not great enough to Change into gear and stay running. So really doesn't run great if u get me.
 
crank the initial timing up to around 16 degrees and see if it will idle in gear...
 
70aarcuda said:
crank the initial timing up to around 16 degrees and see if it will idle in gear...
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It will not stay idleing on its own once in gear no matter where I set the timing to. I've retarded and advanced the timing so far out each way it practically stalls to try to make this thing have an idle in gear.
 
Ferdinandbites said:
It will not stay idleing on its own once in gear no matter where I set the timing to. I've retarded and advanced the timing so far out each way it practically stalls to try to make this thing have an idle in gear.
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Set it in neutral. ...
 
67Dart273 said:
Very very very FIRST thing is "where is the timing" and I DON'T mean "by the marks" without checking them.

You sure the timing is BEFORE tdc and not after? Try this......hook up your vacuum gauge, gently turn the dist CCW and see if vacuum increases. "Peak" the reading for max vacuum, and back your idle speed down with the screw as the vacuum goes up

THEN check your marks. Don't be surprised if it's 10BTC. Try re-starting the engine several times to be sure it does not kick back on the starter

IF the marks don't make sense, you need to CHECK the marks for accuracy using a piston stop Google "piston stop" or "how to use." Lots of info there

So with timing set for a fair amount of initial advance, AT LEAST 4BTC and perhaps 10, get the engine warm, and adjust the idle MIXTURE screws out some until the enge starts to slow. Keep the idle speed fairly low with the curb idle speed screw. Turn the screws slowly in, watching the vacuum, and listening. At some point, engine will slow a bit, vacuum will drop. THIS IS A subtle indication, you have to "watch" for it. Screw in/ out until you are sure this is right. Go back and forth between the two mixture until the peak is "right on." Then turn each screw in CW a bit for the "lean" side of the peak. idle speed / vacuum should drop the tiniest bit or not at all.

Last, reset your idle speed.
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Do
 
Phreakish said:
It's possible the chain jumped, but you'd likely have other symptoms. Even if it did jump, fixing the timing and fuel delivery will make it easier to diagnose that.

You've replaced all the small bits, and the transmission is probably OK. That means the most likely culprit is in the timing or fuel delivery, and these are easy to work on.

Timing can be all over the place and 'run just fine'. Hell, it could be 5 degrees ATDC and with the mechanical advance coming in at higher revs it will drive pretty OK but run like poo at low revs.

Timing can also have an effect on the way things burn in the engine, and cause an exhaust stench that will cause watery eyes and smelly garages. 7psi is high, but if it fires right back up then it may not be flooded. It will be tough to tell without either an oxygen sensor setup, or the timing set correctly. See where this is headed? Timing first.

Use the piston stop to verify where the timing mark points on the balancer. Assume nothing. Searching will yield a lot of info - use the stop in both directions. Meaning turn the engine on way up against the stop, then the other. TDC will be between the two resulting marks.

Then it's simply a matter of doing what 67Dart273 said up in post #8

Also, make sure all your changes are made/done on a warm engine. Small changes are OK when cold, especially as far as timing goes. But any mixture changes, and final idle settings should occur on a FULLY warmed engine, which means 170+ degrees, better if it's at the thermostat temperature range (190+).
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if this thing jumped a tooth shouldn't the vacuum be off in some way? ive got a solid 20 inches where my timing is set currently.
 
Phreakish said:
Well, it should go into gear at idle. It won't without stalling. Idle IS the problem.

Once in gear, will it idle if you take your foot out of it?
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no idle once foot is off. only 2000 rpms keep it running and allow it to go into gear without stalling. ive raised the idle to 1500 rpms (foot off pedal) but that wont keep the engine running when it goes into gear. it onls make for a fast running engine all the time. is there something I don't know about this thing that when it goes into gear it will have the carb increase rpms to stay running? say like the job of an idle air control valve? thing is even I such component exits why 2000 plus rpms to keep engine running? you think timing can be that far out that 2000 can only keep the engine running? or a fuel issue that keeps the engine running under load but 2000 worth of throttle. adding fuel, to keep it running? what do you think?
 
TrailBeast said:
Doesn't sound like it starts and idles "mint" to me or it wouldn't be doing what it does.
AND if that truly is the case then you have a bad converter.
If you don't have a bad converter, then the engine doesn't run and idle "mint".

Get where this is going? :D

I have seen people driving cars with two cylinders missing because of out of order plug wires that say it runs great.
Can you video this problem in neutral at idle, then putting into gear at idle, then in gear with just enough throttle to keep it running?

My neighbor came in with a new/different car one day and asked me "well, what do you think?" "It sounds good doesn't it?"
My reply was "Sounds ok if it was a V6, but it's a V8 missing on at least two cylinders". (plug wires were wrong and when I put them in right it cleared right up)

Guess what he said? :D
"It doesn't sound as good as did"
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ok, the eninge doesn't run mint and I like hearing that its a possible converter. great story about the v6 v8, real good story, that got to me thinking more about my thinking about this thing. but not running great don't u think even 1500 rpms should be more than enough to keep an engine running while in gear? fine a mis, something weird like some electricery going on but to not run unless I hold that fuel pedal down like that, just strange.
 
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