Sorry it's radiators again

please forgive me for posting about radiators again I'm a 60 year old fart having trouble searching. 1968 Dodge Dart was 6 converting to 8. 390 horse 360 do not want electric fans I trust you guys comments Maybe you could recommended radiator and fan shroud to keep about 420 horse cool. No AC would like transmission cooler built-in. would greatly appreciate any of your recommendations. I am new to Mopar also not much money thanks again.

Hmmm.. the 'not much money' aspect makes it tougher.

Are you having specific issues now? If so, can you describe them?

Are you running the older iron water pump or the later AL water pump? Note that the upper and lower rad hose connections are on opposite sides for those 2 pump types.

I have been considering going to the Griffin AL 22" rad for a 340 in an early A body, but that is priced at $619.... it uses 2 rows with 1.25" wide tubes. This is to replace an AL rad with 3 rows of .75" tubes of unknown brand (perhaps a Champion). The Griffins seem to have solved a good number of cases where the engines just ran hot at 70-75 mph hard cruising speeds.

The other alternative I've looked at is an ECP 2 row 22" AL rad. It uses 2 1" rows of tubes. It costs $219.

Do you have things in place like the hood-to-core support seal?

thank you so much for replying first of all engine is a 360 Mopar performance 390 horse stock believe the water pump is aluminum and exits pointing towards the passenger side I have a performer RPM air gap with a straight-up aluminum thermostat outlet it does have the rib to hold the hose on. Engine not installed yet still early in the build but would rather not make mistakes that I have to correct later. I was looking at the ECP I can find a way to deal with hoses but definitely need them on the correct side lower radiator passenger side upper radiator driver side hope this helps thanks for the response let me know what you think.block to intake hose is already dealt with.

not trying to stay original can find seals for under hood sorry I forgot to include in previous post

hope this helps

I'll tell you what works for me;
Group 1
A 26"A/C rad from a 73 Dart, installed into a widened core-support hole. Yes it is from an automatic car.And I used the shroud that came on it..
I also used the big 7-blade all steel clutch fan from that car, and all the pulleys.
I installed a Milodon hi-flo water pump and matching stat. This pump has an anti-cavitation plate on the bakside of the impeller
I used molded hoses only, and the lower one has the SS anti-collapse spring in it
I went down to the FORD dealer and purchased a thermostatic clutch for an early 2000s pick-up truck
I run the rubber seal between the core support and the bottom of the hood.
-----------------------------------------------
Group 2
I installed a 7 qt oilpan on the engine and run it at 5qts
I run fresh cold air into the carb.
I restricted the coolant bypass hose to something like 40%, but I use the heater as a bypass on cold mornings.
In the early years I ran straight water with the anti-rust and bearing lube additive. But eventually switched to 50/50
I removed the front license plate holder.

This system cools my 420 hp 367 cuber without hick-ups of any kind, and since I had most of the junk laying around, it was pretty cheap. We are talking occasional strip( been twice, total maybe 5 runs) but the rest,100,000 plus miles. is all street. Hi-speed,low speed, parades, stomp after stomp after stomp, traffic, towing,whatever, the gauge never moves.All these parts are still on the car, most from day one in 99. The Ford clutch went on in about 2004. The Milodon pump maybe 2002. Actually, now that I think of it, that pump made a big difference.I'll guess it's the plate, and they are available separately for cheap.My engine runs at about 205*F as measured with an IR gun.The stat is labeled 195*

I'm pretty sure many of these things might not be absolutely necessary.I just know that in the big picture, Zero heat problems is hard to mess with.So I'm not about to change anything.
I think the stuff in group 2, might be optional. You could eliminate the Ford clutch, and run a 7-blade fan directly. I think that clutch cost me about a $100. If you run a direct fan, you might get away with a big 6-blader from the junk pile. But forget about any flex-fans. The one I tried was hopeless.With the anti-cav plate,and direct drive fan, you might also be able to get away without the rubber core seal.The Milodon pump was about double a stock 8 blader.

thank you so much for the information. I live 70 miles north of Houston Texas no wrecking yards anywhere near me Carry the older radiators have you heard if the 22" EPC radiators work good enough for my engine. I plan on running a cowling and a quality Flex fan. if not what about a 26-inch. the vast majority of the rest of your information is great. once again thank you very much. I would send you a personal text or whatever but I don't know how to do that thanks again for your wonderful response

I guess I could also tell you what doesn't work. Here is a list of parts I originally put on the car that just could not keep up under any circumstances.

The above listed rad in the stock slanty opening,the shroud, the core-seal, the hoses, the 7-qt pan. the 7 blade all steel fan with a brand new viscous clutch, a 160* stat, and water.
It worked at about 45 mph.
It was no better with a big flex fan, actually worse, now I was down to 30/35 mph.

Things took a turn for the better when the hi-flo pump went on. And with the Ford T-clutch it was all over.
So Ima gonna say The anti cav plate and the 7 blader are must haves.Probably followed by enlarging the rad opening.
Sucking hot under-hood air (I have TTIs and Alumunum heads), I had trouble with consistent idle quality, so in about 2006,(I'm guessing), I cut a hole in my hood, and since that day my idle and low-speed problems have been over. I mounted an oval air filter house directly sealed to the top of the hood. Then I sealed the Carb to the bottom of the hood. When I open the hood you can see directly into the venturies. I think my power doubled that day!,lol

AJ/FormS said:

I guess I could also tell you what doesn't work

Click to expand...

Thanks do you know of anything on EPC rads. both of you guys have been helpful sorry to pester you all with the lack of original radiators for old Mopar stuff available Plus recore cost I'm going to try and go with aftermarket if I can epc and Championship cheapest I don't know about their quality though

All I can say on the ECP rad is that 2 1" rows of tubes ought to cool a bit better than 3 rows of 3/4" tubes. Also, the core height is a bit better than the 'unknown brand' 3 row in my son's car. On net, maybe 15% better, as best as I can compute.

Being in Texas, you'll be pushing the heat transfer equations pretty hard, so you would be wise IMHO to put in as much rad as you can afford. I can't really say if the ECP 2 row is adequate or not. But, if you have the option to open up the rad support core to accomodate a 26" rad core as AJ did, I would not hesitate one millisecond to do so.

BTW, your hose setup is for the 1970 and later hose arrangement. A 22" or 26" small block rad from ECP has that arrangement. The Griffin 5-00154 22" rad with 2 rows of 1.25" tubes may well outcool the ECP 26".

26" Small Block Mopar Radiator
22" Mopar SMALL BLOCK HD Aluminum Radiator
Griffin Exact Fit Radiator Details for

One other idea if you have the flexibility in mounting is to use a Griffin 2 row cross flow like the 1-55222-XS. I would expect this to outperform the ECP rads. It has the hoses in about the right spots, and has 2 rows of 1.25" tubes for less than half of the price of the exact fit styles from Griffin...like around $275! That is a pretty good cost versus cooling price point. You can also get the same rad with an angled lower fitting for perhaps an easier lower hose connection.
Radiator Details for Universal Fit Racer Part: 1-55222-XS

nm9stheham said:

All I can say on the ECP rad is that 2 1" rows of tubes ought to cool a bit better than 3 rows of 3/4" tubes. Also, the core height is a bit better than the 'unknown brand' 3 row in my son's car. On net, maybe 15% better, as best as I can compute.

Being in Texas, you'll be pushing the heat transfer equations pretty hard, so you would be wise IMHO to put in as much rad as you can afford. I can't really say if the ECP 2 row is adequate or not. But, if you have the option to open up the rad support core to accomodate a 26" rad core as AJ did, I would not hesitate one millisecond to do so.

BTW, your hose setup is for the 1970 and later hose arrangement. A 22" or 26" small block rad from ECP has that arrangement. The Griffin 5-00154 22" rad with 2 rows of 1.25" tubes may well outcool the ECP 26".

26" Small Block Mopar Radiator
22" Mopar SMALL BLOCK HD Aluminum Radiator
Griffin Exact Fit Radiator Details for

One other idea if you have the flexibility in mounting is to use a Griffin 2 row cross flow like the 1-55222-XS. I would expect this to outperform the ECP rads. It has the hoses in about the right spots, and has 2 rows of 1.25" tubes for less than half of the price of the exact fit styles from Griffin...like around $275! That is a pretty good cost versus cooling price point. You can also get the same rad with an angled lower fitting for perhaps an easier lower hose connection.
Radiator Details for Universal Fit Racer Part: 1-55222-XS

Click to expand...

thank you very much for the information I will research and consider it all and see if I can't come up with a cooling plan once again thank you for everything if you are ever in Texas give me a shout

AJ/FormS said:

Sucking hot under-hood air (I have TTIs and Alumunum heads), I had trouble with consistent idle quality, so in about 2006,(I'm guessing), I cut a hole in my hood, and since that day my idle and low-speed problems have been over.

Click to expand...

Int.eresting you brought this up..... we are pretty much at the same spot and have concluded the generally high under hood temps are causing issues in the air-fuel mix. Some sort of cool air intake will be coming along. Getting the excess hot air out from under the hood is more of a challenge when you don't want a hole in the hood.

Making the decision to cut was very hard. I didn't have money for the RamAir stuff, so it was my only option.

@ AJ Form S

why are you installing a 7 quarts Oil pan...but only use 5 Quarts ?? Why not 7 ...as you now have the volume for using 7 quarts..

About the rest...I run nearly the same set up in my Chally... Milodon Pump / Highflow 195°F Thermostat..3 Row Cooper Brass Radiator 22 " .. ATF cooler from B&M bypassed the water cooler ...
Severe Duty Clutch with a 5 Blade Morpar Perfomance FanBlade...

200 °F is the Maximum that I see...even in the city stop and go..or on the German Autobahn... 200 °F that ´s it

Greetings Juregn

I see a lot of better cooling talk from guys using water pumps that out perform others. I would enlarge rad support opening to accommodate the 26 in rad like said. thermostat is a factor. 180 vs 195. read up. also be sure your hood has the factory seals there, that will air flow, shroud is a must, correct size pulleys.
sorry gas will boil and cause problems not related to rad. fresh air opening in hood may not be "factory" but it does help get rid of hot underhood air.
use correct factory fan. do not use the flex! for several reasons.

If you go on the Summit site, they have some Be Cool universal radiators I think around 300. Those work very well. I wouldn't put a Champoin or any other total chinkese POS radiator in jack dammit. Just too many stories about how they don't cool. I know they are not all bad, but there is such a huge influx of chinkesium, that the chances of getting a bad one are too high to take chances. Spend your money wisely and ONCE.

brasil
I run the 7qt pan at 5qts, to keep the oil off the crank, to reduce windage, at high rpm.Since I can't help myself, and keep going there, hitting 7000 whenever I feel like it; I mean that's why I built this thing;to be wailed on.And my wailing is not all in a straight line, I love to off-road this little powerhouse. But since I'm not a straight-line racer, it's not at 7000 for 12 seconds at a time, but rather for perhaps 3 to 5 seconds at a time. 7000rpm is 117 revolutions per second, so 5 seconds is 585 revolutions.My hope was that the oil would return to the pan faster than the pump could move it out. So I made it as easy as I could for the oil to return.
So my thought was that by doing it this way, the reduced windage would not only free up some power,But reduce the oil temperature as well. The 7qt pan has a lot more surface area to radiate heat, and that extra area is at the bottom of the engine, out in the relatively cool air-stream.
It seems to be working, cuz the engine has over 100,000 miles, on it, and she has gone 93 in the 1/8 at 3650 pounds, at 900 ft elevation.And not that long ago.

@ AJ/Form S

got it... but I would add one more quart of oil.... so you are just in the middle ...

Greetings Juergen

I spoke with ECP on their 26-inch radiator due to a 20% restocking fee I'm wondering if anyone can give me any hints on work required to install in a 1968 Dart any additional help again would be appreciated thanks for any advice.also if a b body fan shroud would work.