Yup, that's it.
26 inch ECP in a 68 Dart
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Yup, that's it.
fratzog lover
Well-Known Member
Nice engine.
investigator
Well-Known Member
Thank you very much 390 horse Mopar performance 360, changed intakes and carb have MSD Holley electric fuel pump not installed yet though obviously had 2,000 miles when I bought it used, heard it run paid paid 3500 for all in picture + fuel pump and 727 automatic transmission with performance Kit from some famous Mopar transmission builders. think I'm going to shut down for the night and do some research thank you to everybody for your help hope to visit again sometime PS anybody gets near New Waverly Texas 60 miles north of Houston let me know would like to meet you.
furyus2
Well-Known Member
I bought one of their 22 inch radiators. Nothing fit properly. So tall I can't use a lever cap. Had to grind out the mounting holes, and weld the other side of the holes/slots so a bolt and washer would fit. After all that, the stock shroud won't work due to the mounting rails on the radiator. Wouldn't cool at low speed. I had to hand build a shroud. Called them up,and got nothing. Run away. Far away. This is a 69 Dart Swinger 340.
fratzog lover
Well-Known Member
Nice to know if they dont back it up. Did they claim you altered it?
furyus2
Well-Known Member
My main concern, was, where do I find a fan shroud to work with your radiator? Reply, we don't have one. Well, if you are going to change the way a shroud is mounted common sense would be to build a shroud that fits. I didn't bring up about changing the mounting holes, I just wanted a shroud. They made it with a flange on both sides to mount a shroud to, but it sits out about and inch or so from the radiator, so you have this big gap at the top, and bottom. Defeats the purpose of a shroud.
fratzog lover
Well-Known Member
Sure does.
investigator
Well-Known Member
I installed To My Hood closed it and measured from bottom radiator support to the recessed area where Cap fits and came up with 24 and an eighth inches Auto work did you have to cut or trim any of that sheet metal at the bottom of the inner fender
investigator
Well-Known Member
My bad I meant the metal on top of my finger not what I'm actually pointing to but thanks it's nice to know I won't have to cut any talk to Champion today and they gave the measurement overall to the top of the cap on the filler neck as 23 3/4 looks like I am in business thanks to you I will wait to purchase though because they give you 60 days guaranteed to cool
Good luck using Champion. You'll need it.
Says a guy that doesn't run one and has never even tried to.
Mine has 10k miles on it and is working great. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one. I slotted the mounting holes, big deal. There's a bunch of members here that have used them without any issues at all besides the generic mounting holes. A couple guys have sent one back for being warped and had them exchanged, their customer service has replaced them. I've seen much more expensive radiators returned for much bigger flaws.
Yes, the dimensions changed on the cc374. But it was never actually advertised as an A-body radiator, it was spec'd as a B/E body radiator from the beginning. Some of us just found it would work in an A before the dimensions changed, and it sounds like it will still work in some A's.
Member ChallengerGary was a distributor for them, not sure if he is anymore or not but it would be worth asking. I bought my radiator from him, and he was a solid guy to do business with.
I say that because of both what I have read and seen, first hand. And no, I don't plan to run one. I've never seen problems with Be Cool or Griffin, yet there are hundreds of threads online about chinese imported radiators that don't cool well.......whether champion or whatever other brands there are. Lots of people have great luck with them. "I" will not take a chance on one and "I" will not recommend them.
I have also not tried eating dog crap, but I don't recommend that either.
I have also not tried eating dog crap, but I don't recommend that either.
meathead66
Mod Top
Know someone that has eaten' dog crap? Perhaps a close relative?
These are the comments I see that make me no longer ask questions on here.
These are the comments I see that make me no longer ask questions on here.
Here's an entire thread about griffin radiators not fitting properly, including some of their "direct fit" radiators that start at over $600 and are supposed to bolt in, but still required modifications.
Griffin Rad fitment issues
Griffin's direct fit radiators are $600+. Be Cools direct fit radiators are $700+. Their cross flow radiators are cheaper, but they're universal radiators and need mounting, and then you have to figure out new radiator hoses.
So no, griffin and be cool radiators aren't 100% problem free. And for 3x the cost, you'd think they would be. I'm ok with making a few small changes to the mounting holes if it means saving $400 and still using stock hoses.
Regardless, the OP never asked about Be cool or Griffin radiators. Probably because a $600 radiator wasn't in his budget. And since you've never used or installed a Champion or ECP radiator, I don't see how your comments are useful here. I've read a lot of those horror story threads about champion radiators, and I read a lot of them before I bought mine. Some are legit quality issues with champion, it is a cheaper radiator and they have some QC issues sometimes. And some of them were replaced under warranty by champion too. But some of them have more to do with inadequate fans and cooling systems outside of the radiator too. Put a crappy fan on a Griffin and you'd have the same problem.
We are arguing apples and oranges. I don't give a fig about fitment issues, as long as I don't have to cut the front of the car off for fitment.
What I am talking about is the actual performance of the radiator, but you cannot seem to get that through your head. Argue all you want. Post all you want. It does not affect "MY" opinion of chinkesium radiators. You might one that'll cool and you might not. Simple as that.
What I am talking about is the actual performance of the radiator, but you cannot seem to get that through your head. Argue all you want. Post all you want. It does not affect "MY" opinion of chinkesium radiators. You might one that'll cool and you might not. Simple as that.
I also never said they were problem free. The Be Cool radiators I am talking about........the ones I actually posted a LINK to are all around 300 dollars. They are universal fit. With the right measurements, a chimp could do a good job at fitment. But you cannot fix a radiator that will not cool......which is what "I" am talking about.
Well, other people do care if they have to "cut the front of their car off" to get their expensive radiator to fit. Or if they have to find aftermarket radiator hoses to fit a generic cross flow radiator.
And Rob, I wasn't trying to argue with you. I simply pointed out that you've never actually installed or used a Champion radiator. That's not an argument, that's the truth as you've said yourself. And I posted a link to show that not all of the more expensive radiators out there are without issues so that the OP has better information to make an informed decision. I posted my own first hand experience with installing and running the Champion radiator in my car. Maybe not all of them work, but mine works great. My car doesn't overheat, I drive the crap out of it, and the Champion radiator has held up just fine.
And Rob, I wasn't trying to argue with you. I simply pointed out that you've never actually installed or used a Champion radiator. That's not an argument, that's the truth as you've said yourself. And I posted a link to show that not all of the more expensive radiators out there are without issues so that the OP has better information to make an informed decision. I posted my own first hand experience with installing and running the Champion radiator in my car. Maybe not all of them work, but mine works great. My car doesn't overheat, I drive the crap out of it, and the Champion radiator has held up just fine.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
I am probably going to switch my son's car away from a Champion to a Griffin 1.25" tube cross flow rad. They run around $275, not the $620 that the direct fit Griffins cost. So 72Blunblu needs to recognize that there are multiple lines in the Be-Cool and Griffin brands, and IMHO is unfairly biasing the readers against them based solely on the cost of their more expensive product lines. This is not helpful to the general readership who are looking for the best cost and best cooling solutions.
I conservatively compute the cooling capacity to be in the 15-25% range better for the 2x1.25" row crossflows versus the 3x3/4" downflow Champion. We need to get better cooling capacity in the rad due to:
- the smaller early A body engine compartment not being as good for airflow IMHO
- having an AC condensor and external trans cooler up front of the rad.
The 3x3/4" Champion is just not doing it for overall cooling capacity at interstate speed, when moderate HP is being produced.
And FWIW I would pick a 2x 1" row rad over a 3x3/4" row rad for a slight overall cooling capacity advantage. The ECP's and Be-Cool's have that advantage. This does not include the apparent coolant flow limitations that some 3/4" tube cheap rads have been reported to to have. I can't shed any more light on that last issue; I am just relating what I have read on that matter, and have not really examined what is going on there.
I conservatively compute the cooling capacity to be in the 15-25% range better for the 2x1.25" row crossflows versus the 3x3/4" downflow Champion. We need to get better cooling capacity in the rad due to:
- the smaller early A body engine compartment not being as good for airflow IMHO
- having an AC condensor and external trans cooler up front of the rad.
The 3x3/4" Champion is just not doing it for overall cooling capacity at interstate speed, when moderate HP is being produced.
And FWIW I would pick a 2x 1" row rad over a 3x3/4" row rad for a slight overall cooling capacity advantage. The ECP's and Be-Cool's have that advantage. This does not include the apparent coolant flow limitations that some 3/4" tube cheap rads have been reported to to have. I can't shed any more light on that last issue; I am just relating what I have read on that matter, and have not really examined what is going on there.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Bingo.....
I'm sorry, but in post #40 I mentioned very clearly that both Be Cool and Griffin offer generic fit, cross flow radiators for less than the direct fit options. But those are generic cross flow radiators, they don't have their inlets and outlets in a stock location so you have to figure out hoses and routing. If that works for you, great. But yes, I based my cost comparisons on their "direct fit" radiators that had their inlet/outlet locations in the same place as the Champion, because that might be important and that's what the OP was talking about, a 26" core radiator with stock inlet/outlet locations. I'm just trying to compare like features.
The OP also mentioned that he has an automatic transmission and wants a built-in transmission cooler. Maybe I'm missing something (entirely possible!), but the cheapest Griffin or Be Cool radiator I see listed that has a 26" core and a transmission cooler that's narrow enough to fit is $368, and again that's a generic fit radiator with both outlets on the right hand side. Everything that I can find cheaper than that isn't a 26" core or doesn't have a cooler. What's the part # for the one that's $275?
https://www.summitracing.com/search/core-width-in/26-000-in/transmission/automatic?SortBy=DisplayPrice&SortOrder=Ascending&N=400030+400001+4294919216+4294949231+4294919254+4294949200+4294949199+4294914989
As far as your Champion not cooling at speed, I'm not sure what to tell you. Is it a 26" 3 core or a 22"? My Duster runs down the freeway at 80 mph with the temp gauge at 190* even when it's 100*+ outside. The electric fans never come on when the car is moving at highway, let alone freeway speeds, regardless of the outside temp or engine speed. When it's colder than 70* outside it will bounce off the 180* thermostat while on the freeway. And that's a 400+ hp, .060" over, 9.8:1 compression, iron headed 340. It doesn't have an A/C condenser up front (which is significant), but it does have a 26" radiator sitting behind a 22" radiator support. Heck, if your Champion is a CC374 I'll buy it. No kidding, shoot me a PM if you make the swap. Has to be a CC374 though and not the later, taller CC374B.
I'm not trying to bias or mislead anyone, and I'm not trying to argue. I'm just trying to compare apples to apples with a 26" core. I never said the Griffin and Be Cool radiators were junk, I never said they didn't work, heck I never even claimed they don't work better. All I said was that the less expensive ones were generic cross flow, and that the more expensive ones are both more expensive and still not a perfect fit. That's it. My 26" 3 core champion works great, and I've already described what I had to do in order to install it (clearly its not perfect either).
Nevermind.
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
probably best at this point. LOL
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
I am beginning to suspect that part of the highway speed cooling 'equation' is the engine compartment size and subsequent air flow. We are dealing with a smaller compartment than your later Duster. There is nothing especially constrictive in the engine compartment: 340 small block, AL heads, headers. In front of the 22" rad is a full width AC condensor, and a half width trans cooler. So there is some flow restriction in front. The hood to core support seal is in place. HP production at interstate cruise should not be too much; there is nothing unusually 'un-aerodynamic' about the car....well, besides being an early A body!
So it all comes down to airflow and coolant flow and heat transfer. Coolant flow is (hopefully) better with a Milodon high flow pump. But that can only do so much if there is a flow restriction elsewhere.
Well it's a 22" radiator. Mine's a 26". That probably makes a bigger difference than the size of the engine compartment. The A/C condenser out front doesn't help either, even Ma Mopar started putting 26" radiators in later A-bodies that had A/C.
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