Best mini starter for RB big block 440 engine with TTI headers.

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Carnut76

Carnut76

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Location
Kingston Illinois
This is my first thread so please don't be to critical, just trying to help out. For anyone who is pulling their hair out looking for a Big Block RB mini starter, here is what you need with a 440, I went through this few weeks ago after installing TTI headers, I bought a new Dodge Dakota starter, yes it bolted up, however the positive terminal hits the block on a 440, you can shave it down but it doesn't leave you enough threads to bolt anything to it. I took the starter I had to a local re builder shop called MARS in DeKalb IL to figure out a solution, They ended up building me a new Denso starter with the terminal on the bottom, plenty of clearance, easy to mount the positive wire and signal wire. Call Mike at MARS 815-756-9019 Tell him you need a mini Denso starter for a Big Block 440 Chrysler just like the one he built for Jason Withers with the terminal on the bottom. He will be happy to build and ship one to you. They rebuild all of our starters and alt. at work too. He also converted my Denso alt to a single wire as well. The cost of this new rebuilt starter was under 150.00 well worth it. Yes its a mini high torque and it works perfect, I added a pic of a stock Denso unit on a RB engine, you can clearly see the terminal to block clearance issue I am pointing out. On the bottom is the corrected rebuilt Denso starter from Mars that has the terminals on the bottom, pics of the new starter could have been better but I was more interested in getting the starter in the car at the time. Also be aware of the "new" starters from Napa and other auto part stores as they are most likely a Chinese copy not an actual Denso unit.

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I really like the sound of this fix. Clever indeed.
Could you be coaxed into posting a picture of your modified starter installed with the tti headers for all of us?
You know a picture of the new found terminal access.
Thanks for sharing your solution with us.
 
Could you be coaxed into posting a picture of your modified starter installed with the tti headers for all of us?
You know a picture of the new found terminal access.
Thanks for sharing your solution with us.[/QUOTE]
I tried to get my phone camera up in there but its pretty tight and the pics were hard to make anything out, I will have the car on the trailer today so I will give it another shot outside in the daylight.[/QUOTE]
 
ssba said:
I really like the sound of this fix. Clever indeed.
Could you be coaxed into posting a picture of your modified starter installed with the tti headers for all of us?
You know a picture of the new found terminal access.
Thanks for sharing your solution with us.
Click to expand...

OK, here it is, as you can see it is very tight and very hard to get a good angle with the camera but I tried to show the clearance for the terminal, I have the signal wire looped into the main because I am running a Ford solenoid being that my battery is relocated in the trunk, I wanted to clean up the engine compartment as well. plus with headers if something goes wrong and shorts it wont burn my car to the ground because there is only power when in start position.

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Nice, I like how you set this up.
For years I have never liked how the mini starters wiring never fit well but never thought to do anything
this creative to improve it.
Looks much easier to work on this way also.
Definitely gonna copy your fix on my cars.
Thanks for sharing your remedy and the photos.
 
ssba said:
Nice, I like how you set this up.
For years I have never liked how the mini starters wiring never fit well but never thought to do anything
this creative to improve it.
Looks much easier to work on this way also.
Definitely gonna copy your fix on my cars.
Thanks for sharing your remedy and the photos.
Click to expand...
No problem, I am happy to share a solution. I took a brand new starter apart and was going to drill new holes to relocate the contact terminals myself but decided to get the advise from a local starter/alternator pro, then he said it would be better if he could just start over and build me one from scratch so then the fix was in. I really had no choice, the stock Denso style simply wasn't going to work for my car and there was no way I was going to scrap the new headers and start over. I am super anal about clearance and wiring. Here is a pic of the engine compartment.

20160623_194604[1].jpg
 
Wow!!!!! So clean and hidden wires.
I am taking a shelved starter apart to see if I can move things around.
 
ssba said:
Wow!!!!! So clean and hidden wires.
I am taking a shelved starter apart to see if I can move things around.
Click to expand...
There was a reason I couldn't do it and I would have a hard time trying to explain it in an email, but if I remember correctly the contacts need to be directly across from each other inside the solenoid for the plunger to evenly contact otherwise it may get cockeyed for lack of better term, and the signal wire was in a bad spot as well, I would have had to add a longer wire for the signal internally and then still having to put the main power from solenoid to motor on the opposite side, it was going to be time consuming so that's why I just returned the New Chinese Napa /Denso imposterer and had him build a real Denso from scratch. If you have one on the shelf you are ahead of the game. Correction, I shouldn't say I couldn't do it because it can be done, it was just cheaper, easier, and faster to start fresh rather than rebuild and redesign a brand new starter.
 
Carnut76 said:
No problem, I am happy to share a solution. I took a brand new starter apart and was going to drill new holes to relocate the contact terminals myself but decided to get the advise from a local starter/alternator pro, then he said it would be better if he could just start over and build me one from scratch so then the fix was in. I really had no choice, the stock Denso style simply wasn't going to work for my car and there was no way I was going to scrap the new headers and start over. I am super anal about clearance and wiring. Here is a pic of the engine compartment.

View attachment 1714950295
Click to expand...
Where'd you run the wires for the headlight/turn signals? I'm wiring my car now and trying to make it clean....
 
Jlcaptain24 said:
Where'd you run the wires for the headlight/turn signals? I'm wiring my car now and trying to make it clean....
Click to expand...
Outside the left inner fender, used insulated clamps around the harness and stainless Allen head bolts through the inner fender to hold the clamps. I wrapped the wires in the black wire loom. I could post pics but may do another thread on that separate from the starter thread.
 
Carnut76 said:
Outside the left inner fender, used insulated clamps around the harness and stainless Allen head bolts through the inner fender to hold the clamps. I wrapped the wires in the black wire loom. I could post pics but may do another thread on that separate from the starter thread.
Click to expand...
Nice...I see it now poking through the fender by the MC...crafty solution!
 
Make sure your flywheel has the right tooth count for the starter or you will break noses off. Just went through this.
 
halifaxhops said:
Make sure your flywheel has the right tooth count for the starter or you will break noses off. Just went through this.
Click to expand...
I probably need to research this a little but I thought all of the newer Denso starters work with the automatic trans flex plate or flywheel? I was told by the experts at TTI if you have a manual trans you have to make sure you have the correct teeth or flywheel size? Maybe someone can advise?
 
For some reason I got a flywheel with 143 teeth. You need a 130 tooth. If the gear from the oem starter mates you are good. SFI plates come in all different teeth. Did not know that when I got it just saw 440 flex plate from Jeggs.
 
Carnut76 said:
OK, here it is, as you can see it is very tight and very hard to get a good angle with the camera but I tried to show the clearance for the terminal, I have the signal wire looped into the main because I am running a Ford solenoid being that my battery is relocated in the trunk, I wanted to clean up the engine compartment as well. plus with headers if something goes wrong and shorts it wont burn my car to the ground because there is only power when in start position.

View attachment 1714950280

View attachment 1714950288

View attachment 1714950289
Click to expand...


are those 1 7/8 or 2inch primary TTI headers?
I ordered one of these starters (great customer service by the way!) any way I have the TTI 2 1/8 inch step headers and this starter will not work with them the battery lug hits the header tube as they are routed just a little different then the 2 inch headers (don't know about the 1 7/8)
 
mprhound said:
are those 1 7/8 or 2inch primary TTI headers?
I ordered one of these starters (great customer service by the way!) any way I have the TTI 2 1/8 inch step headers and this starter will not work with them the battery lug hits the header tube as they are routed just a little different then the 2 inch headers (don't know about the 1 7/8)
Click to expand...
Wow, the tube must be close to the starter on the 2-1/8 , I have 1-3/4 because they did offer 1-7/8 for the a body, and 2 inch would have been overkill for my engine and an even tighter fit, I had to smash the header as it was to clear the right torsion bar. I would give Mike a call and tell him the situation, I am sure he can exchange and or come up with a solution. They are old school and family owned/operated. I should have been clear on what size headers I was using too, I apologize for that.
 
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Carnut76 said:
Wow, the rube must be close to the starter on the 2-1/8 , I have 1-3/4 because they did offer 1-7/8 for the a body, and 2 inch would have been overkill for my engine and an even tighter fit, I had to smash the header as it was to clear the right torsion bar. I would give Mike a call and tell him the situation, I am sure he can exchange and or come up with a solution. They are old school and family owned/operated. I should have been clear on what size headers I was using too, I apologize for that.
Click to expand...
No problem, I will keep mine, because my other car has 1 3/4 tube headers and I will use the starter on it, again Mike was great to deal with!
 
Carnut76 said:
This is my first thread so please don't be to critical, just trying to help out. For anyone who is pulling their hair out looking for a Big Block RB mini starter, here is what you need with a 440, I went through this few weeks ago after installing TTI headers, I bought a new Dodge Dakota starter, yes it bolted up, however the positive terminal hits the block on a 440, you can shave it down but it doesn't leave you enough threads to bolt anything to it. I took the starter I had to a local re builder shop called MARS in DeKalb IL to figure out a solution, They ended up building me a new Denso starter with the terminal on the bottom, plenty of clearance, easy to mount the positive wire and signal wire. Call Mike at MARS 815-756-9019 Tell him you need a mini Denso starter for a Big Block 440 Chrysler just like the one he built for Jason Withers with the terminal on the bottom. He will be happy to build and ship one to you. They rebuild all of our starters and alt. at work too. He also converted my Denso alt to a single wire as well. The cost of this new rebuilt starter was under 150.00 well worth it. Yes its a mini high torque and it works perfect, I added a pic of a stock Denso unit on a RB engine, you can clearly see the terminal to block clearance issue I am pointing out. On the bottom is the corrected rebuilt Denso starter from Mars that has the terminals on the bottom, pics of the new starter could have been better but I was more interested in getting the starter in the car at the time. Also be aware of the "new" starters from Napa and other auto part stores as they are most likely a Chinese copy not an actual Denso unit.

ministarterimg-1-jpg.jpg
20160603_201455-1-jpg.jpg
20160603_201506-1-jpg.jpg
Click to expand...
I know this thread is old but recently I've had some very bad luck with MARS, they rebuilt the generator on 35 Plymouth twice and the car still broke down from it not charging, took it to Forest city electric and found out Mars never rebuilt it inside, the windings and wires were shorting out inside, they also used cheap China regulator that was blown, one of the three brushes were stuck open because of the lead being routed wrong. We stopped using them at work too because we had too many problems, when your paying tow bills for semi trucks and mechanics to RnR starters in forklifts multiple times we have to start reconsidering our options. I'm not sure why the quality has suffered but unfortunately I can no longer recommend them, I even tried to talk to them about it but was met with a snarky attitude. I would stay far away. Find someone else that can do this conversion. I would remove this thread completely if I could figure out how. Sorry.
 
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Starter off like an 08 Ram Hemi is even smaller than the Dakota mini starter.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Starter off like an 08 Ram Hemi is even smaller than the Dakota mini starter.
Click to expand...

Darn , u guys just reminded me , the last 2 times I`ve started my car, the starter skipped for a bit before grabbing .
 
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