Glowing headers

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mopar head

mopar head

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After a search, It seems that on initial break in, most are saying not enough timing.
Not knowing what this build wants/needs, I set initial @14 btdc and placed a fbo limiter plate on 18. Do I need to crank in more initial to 20 or so, until this thing breaks in?
The front pipes were not as hot but the rest were glowing red, was freaking me out, then a electrical pop happened and killed the motor. probably a good thing. Now where to start to figure whats going on with the harness:BangHead:
 
The engine shop I hang out at breaks in a couple of engines every week. I've been hanging out with those guys for 20 years now and I've never seen headers glow during break in. In fact, I've never seen headers glow at all except on a magazine cover. Guess I must live a boring life.
 
My first experience with glowing headers was many years ago. John Zorian built a 440 for a friend of mine and when we installed it and fired it up the headers were glowing bright red! I don't recall what carb was on it. But a mentor of mine went over the specs and in the end said here take this 850 DP and try it. That fixed every thing and the engine temp came down also.
 
my 69 hp 383 w/906 having a burn down on my sparkplug boots ends on a chassi swap with chassi headers . and the heat in the cooling system more under control (nu 4 row core n shoud) . the header get blasts of heat do to the cam overlap 470 270 110cl compcam , ing tim 10 btdc . and a rpm eddy int weber afb 600 , stepped up jet and rods , plugs are coffee tune . i've ordered ceramic booted plug wires . had a similar issue when this was in the dart w/ hp manifolds , a metering rod adjustment turned down that idle heat issue . i've nearly jumped 10 percent over what it was to tune for the headers . still tuning on it , anyone ?

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^^^^^ My '70 Dodge truck left a nice shelf to place your tools on when ya opened the hood. :)
 
Your timing numbers "don't sound" too bad, BUT IS IT ACTUALLY advancing? Have you checked total timing advance? maybe the distributor advance is stuck/ worn/ etc

And yeh, lean otherwise.
 
I think with today's technology, I would set up an air/fuel mixture gauge and let it do the talking.
 
AndyF said:
The engine shop I hang out at breaks in a couple of engines every week. I've been hanging out with those guys for 20 years now and I've never seen headers glow during break in. In fact, I've never seen headers glow at all except on a magazine cover. Guess I must live a boring life.
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Heck, let me pick yer parts, I can make em glow! :)
SGBARRACUDA said:
My first experience with glowing headers was many years ago. John Zorian built a 440 for a friend of mine and when we installed it and fired it up the headers were glowing bright red! I don't recall what carb was on it. But a mentor of mine went over the specs and in the end said here take this 850 DP and try it. That fixed every thing and the engine temp came down also.
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Me and my bud was thinking lean, you should of seen my dumb *** scurrying around opening the idle screws more trying to richen it up.:wtf: then I realized hey...
I bought a new holley 750 and was going to swap it to my 340 and use its 770 on the 440, did not, and figured the 750 would be ok for break in. guess not?
pomonamissel said:
Your timing numbers "don't sound" too bad, BUT IS IT ACTUALLY advancing? Have you checked total timing advance? maybe the distributor advance is stuck/ worn/ etc

And yeh, lean otherwise.
Click to expand...
I had my bud hold the throttle about 800 and it read 14, so I figured good and wound it up to 2+k and was checking for leaks, keeping an eye on temp gauge and did`nt get a chance to check it at the higher rpms, Thinking man this can`t be right with the headers cherry red.
Strange the water temp never went over 190, but has 180 stat.


Any more thoughts are welcome after this included info. If you need more details please ask.
This engine has been a long time coming and I`d hate to hurt it.
I may have got 8-10 min. breakin before it got ugly.
I pulled all plugs and they looked like they were never run?
basics--
TF heads
lunati .494 in. .513 ex. dur. 226 in. 234 ex. advertised 271-279 110 lobe sep.
installed dot to dot degreed good to specs. hyd. flat tappet, hughes roller rockers, .080 preload
homemade 1-3/4 ss headers not quite equal length directly to 2.5 complete exhaust. No collector
72 primary on the holley 750
Factory 72 electr. dist. with the lightest springs in a spring kit, with limiter, all new parts.
engine barked to life immediately. My bud, thinks I got a lot of ticking, valvetrain, I did`nt think it sounded too bad, seems there would be little with that kind of preload.
Sure would like a test schematic for dual ballast ign. so I could wire this up without the questionable harness I have.
thanks fellas
 
mopar head said:
That`s the thing about it, they had no color change period, like new out of the box.
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its screamin lean . go up 2 to 3 sizes.

after it starts and you turn it up to 2000 rpm, advance the distributor around 4 degrees . if the rpm goes up noticeably . leave it there and reduce rpm to 2000 . i can tell you how to set your timing curve later if you want.
.
 
barnett468 said:
its screamin lean . go up 2 to 3 sizes.

after it starts and you turn it up to 2000 rpm, advance the distributor around 4 degrees . if the rpm goes up noticeably . leave it there and reduce rpm to 2000 . i can tell you how to set your timing curve later if you want.
.
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So 76 is the next offered jet, think that will do it huh?
Car will not see the road for another year at my rate.
Just didn't want a fresh engine sitting for too long, been a couple months sitting as was.
thanks
 
Holley jets are offered in single number increases. But if your at 72, I would go 76. Then check it again.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
Holley jets are offered in single number increases. But if your at 72, I would go 76. Then check it again.
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I`m sure my 770 would be a better fit for this engine yes?
Might as well go with original plan and swap carbs, 770 has same factory installed primary jets, so.. I`ll put em in that and try again.
thanks
 
440outlawdart said:
glowing headers sounds like a vaccum leak
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Double-triple checked all ports on carb are capped.
Went through great care installing intake, good fit, should be good seal, we`ll see.


Scavenged some 76 jets from my brothers firebird carb,"don`t tell him" , unwrapped harness, could find no burned wires, all continuity tested good. Forgot to splice in a fuse link, 60 amp from battery to sol. term. When engine died, from pop, I thought I seen a spark near coil area, and that large 8 wire started to smoke and burn where the link would be. I quickly pulled off the ground. That is the only wire that burned.
Question is why would that circuit try to burn up? and what popped to kill the engine? coil? haven`t tested the coil yet, but has continuity from - to +? If any electrical guys are reading this, what size modern weatherpack fuse holder would equate to a 60 amp fuse link? fuse link wires always seem smaller than the wire they protect. Would a fuse holder wire need to be same gauge as the 8 wire? Both would be expensive. Far as I got today hopefully I can refire tomorrow with no drama.
 
Glowing headers is an indication of retarded timing first. With the timing being late, the fuel is still burning leaving the cylinders, because the ignition is started too late so it continues to burn. This reacts the same as a lean mixture, since all of the fuel is not burned inside the chamber. Bump the initial timing up.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Glowing headers is an indication of retarded timing first. With the timing being late, the fuel is still burning leaving the cylinders, because the ignition is started too late so it continues to burn. This reacts the same as a lean mixture, since all of the fuel is not burned inside the chamber. Bump the initial timing up.
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That`s why in my first post I was asking about timing. My search here on fabo come up with about 8 threads on glowing headers and a couple fabo builders telling them to put in more initial. My thread comes up with a lot of too lean-jet it up. So maybe I`ll try again with about 18-20 initial, before jetting. This is nerve wracking to me. ha
 
mopar head said:
That`s why in my first post I was asking about timing. My search here on fabo come up with about 8 threads on glowing headers and a couple fabo builders telling them to put in more initial. My thread comes up with a lot of too lean-jet it up. So maybe I`ll try again with about 18-20 initial, before jetting. This is nerve wracking to me. ha
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The only thing increasing the timing might do to your jetting is make it LEANER, and you have been told to go up on your primary jets irregardless of what you do with your timing, but do what you want.
 
mopar head said:
Sir yes sir..
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LOL, just trying to help by posting the facts . It is your decision whether to make the needed changes or not but it seems illogical to me for people to ask for advice and then not follow the advice given . It kinda defeats the purpose of asking for advice in the first place.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Glowing headers is an indication of retarded timing first. With the timing being late, the fuel is still burning leaving the cylinders, because the ignition is started too late so it continues to burn. This reacts the same as a lean mixture, since all of the fuel is not burned inside the chamber. Bump the initial timing up.
Click to expand...
I was trying to s
barnett468 said:
The only thing increasing the timing might do to your jetting is make it LEANER, and you have been told to go up on your primary jets irregardless of what you do with your timing, but do what you want.
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I was trying to stay out of this, too many bad suggestions on where to start. I own/run a dyno, we have thermo couples in the headers we run on the dyno. During engine break in if the exhaust gas temperatures are getting to high, the first thing we do is advance the timing. It is pretty common for us to use 36 degrees total advance at 2,500 rpm. If you make it richer without advancing the timing I believe you will burn even more fuel in the headers and they will continue to glow.

Jim La Roy
La Roy Engines
Challis, Idaho
 
IQ52 said:
I was trying to s


I was trying to stay out of this, too many bad suggestions on where to start. I own/run a dyno, we have thermo couples in the headers we run on the dyno. During engine break in if the exhaust gas temperatures are getting to high, the first thing we do is advance the timing. It is pretty common for us to use 36 degrees total advance at 2,500 rpm. If you make it richer without advancing the timing I believe you will burn even more fuel in the headers and they will continue to glow.

Jim La Roy
La Roy Engines
Challis, Idaho
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He needs to do both and I even told him one way to get close to the optimal timing for break in, however, the fact remains that it is screaming lean .

barnett468 said:
its screamin lean. go up 2 to 3 sizes.

after it starts and you turn it up to 2000 rpm, advance the distributor around 4 degrees . if the rpm goes up noticeably . leave it there and reduce rpm to 2000 . i can tell you how to set your timing curve later if you want.
.
Click to expand...
 
When you break in an engne pay ZERO attention to the timing curve, initial or any other nonsense where to set it at idle.

Start the darn thing, turn up the break in rpm, then hit it with 36* of timing.

Doing it the way you may drive around on the street, a slow curve is going to create this issue.

The carb likely isn't on the main jet at that RPM and load.
 
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