Is this a good setup for street/haulin' butt?

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1970dartcustom

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We sort of went off track on a related thread, so I figured I should start this new, more specific question on the appropriate category...

The reason I posted this thread is because my Dad said that the setup we've installed in my Dart will make about 400+ hp...

Was hoping to be able to generally figure this out just by the setup and car, originally.
Now I just want to know what's good and bad about it, and if it will fit my needs...
(It's already built mostly, just finishing electrical and such, and then interior etc. but slight changes can be made like rear gearing)

Its a 383, 727, 8 3/4, 742 suregrip, 323 gears in rear atm, and I have 2800 stall, and 27 diameter rear tires... Also, Shumacher headers...
With 750 edelbrock carb, Street dominator holly aluminum intake, stealth aluminum heads (just looked over and squared), light weight anything possible (aluminum radiator and water pump housing, etc), Comp Cam 268 extreme energy (4.88 lift/hydraulic), 9.1 - 9.3 compression (current estimation), stock gaskets, etc...

Is this a good street setup for my '70 Dart? I will probably raise the compression by a few methods later on, but this will be how she sits for now...
 
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We sort of went off track on a related thread, so I figured I should start this new, more specific question on the appropriate category...

The reason I posted this thread is because my Dad said that the setup we've installed in my Dart will make about 400+ hp...

Was hoping to be able to generally figure this out just by the setup and car, originally.
Now I just want to know what's good and bad about it, and if it will fit my needs...
(It's already built mostly, just finishing electrical and such, and then interior etc. but slight changes can be made like rear gearing)

Its a 383, 727, 8 3/4, 742 posi, 323 gears in rear atm, and I have 2800 stall, and 27 diameter rear tires...
With 750 edelbrock carb, Street dominator holly aluminum intake, stealth aluminum heads (just looked over and squared), light weight anything possible (aluminum radiator and water pump housing, etc), Comp Cam 268 extreme energy (4.88 lift/hydraulic), 9.1 - 9.3 compression (current estimation), stock gaskets, etc...

Is this a good street setup for my '70 Dart? I will probably raise the compression by a few methods later on, but this will be how she sits for now...
ummmm......... yeah. It's a big block..... It gonna be good. I can't say how much HP or if you'll hit your 400 goal but I dont see much reason you wont.
 
742 is the carrier, positrac is the point!


at :42 seconds limited slip, at 2:00 posi...

the point he's making is that no mopar came with "Posi-trac". Mopars came with "Sure-grips". It's highly frowned upon in mopar circles to refer to a sure grip unit in a Mopar axle as a "Posi" even though they are essentially the same.
 
the point he's making is that no mopar came with "Posi-trac". Mopars came with "Sure-grips". It's highly frowned upon in mopar circles to refer to a sure grip unit in a Mopar axle as a "Posi" even though they are essentially the same.

OH! Well, you learn something new every day!
Thanks guys! Love this place :)
 
It is both
It has a minimum gripping spec.just like a sure grip
But when there is a large power differential across the case, then the cross pins ride up on ramps and really put the clamp on.
To get it to work you have to have reasonable amounts of power and traction to start with. If you are running a slanty, it will never engage the ramps. Same with skinny tires. Or poor traction surfaces. The regular clamping action is still there, and so it's no biggie. You will still have positive traction. But if you are running big meats and a stout engine, the ramps will engage and there will be ZERO slip, and it will act like a spool. But then when you idle around the corner, the ramps unlock, and the sure grip slips and your car will never know it has a this superpower posi,heehee
 
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OK, So my Dad says that I have a Dana power-lok used in 8-3/4's until 69. SO, is this still a "sure-grip" or is it a "power-lock"? (or both)


If you had a dana 60, you'd have a powerlock, you have a 8.75, you have a suregrip. 2 types of sure grips used, cone and clutch. And no, a dana 60 powerlock will not fit in a 8.75, the gear diameter is much larger in the dana 60,

Moparts on the Web - Main Index
 
If you had a dana 60, you'd have a powerlock, you have a 8.75, you have a suregrip. 2 types of sure grips used, cone and clutch. And no, a dana 60 powerlock will not fit in a 8.75, the gear diameter is much larger in the dana 60,

Moparts on the Web - Main Index
I have found in many placesz an 8 3/4 clutch type rear from pre-1969 called a "sure grip powerlock":


Go Back a Page

Information on Mopar 8 3/4 Rears

The Chrysler 8-3/4" rear axle assembly was introduced in 1957. It is a banjo-type, the differential is contained in a removable carrier assembly. The axle has an 8-3/4" diameter ring gear. There are three basic types available distinguished by their drivepinion stem diameter. The 8-3/4" axle was the primary axle assembly used in most car lines through 1972.

8-3/4" Axle Center Section Types

The 8-3/4" axle was available in three basic types. The types are differentiated by the pinion stem diameter....1-3/8", 1-3/4", 1-7/8". The choice of axle pinion assembly was determined based on the application.

1-3/8" small stem pinion (741) Carrier casting numbers: 1820657 (1957-1964), 2070741 (1964-1972). These numbers are found on the left side of the carrier assembly.

This assembly was typically used in low weight/low horsepower (Small Block as an example) applications through low weight/medium horsepower and high weight / low horsepower applications. Pinion depth and bearing preload is set with shims. Differential bearing setting (i.e. backlash ) is set with threaded adjusters.

1-3/4" large stem pinion. (742) Carrier casting numbers: 1634985 (1957-1964), 2070742 (1961-1969). This assembly was replaced by a 1-7/8" pinion starting in the 1969 model year. 1970 Plymouth and Dodge b Bodies were the last models to use the 1-3/4" which appeared in a 2881489 case.

This assembly was typically used in high weight/medium horsepower applications through high weight/high horsepower applications. Pinion depth and bearing preload is set with shims. Differential bearing setting (i.e. backlash ) is set with threaded adjusters.

1-7/8" tapered stem pinion. (489) Carrier casting numbers: 2881488, 2881489 (1969-1974).

This assembly was introduced in 1969 and gradually replace the 1-3/4" unit through 1970 The 1-3/4" pinion also appeared in some 489 carriers during this period. By 1973, the 489 was the only unit available in passenger car applications.

This assembly was typically used in high weight/medium horsepower through high weight/high horsepower applications. Pinion depth is set with shims, preload is set with a crush sleeve. Differential bearing setting (backlash) is set with threaded adjusters.

All 8-3/4" carrier assemblies can be identified externally by the casting numbers. Additionally, the 741 commonly has a large X cast on the left side, the 742 may have a large 2 cast on the left side, and the 489 has a large 9 cast on the left side. Through 1965, the factory ratio was stamped on the identification boss, followed by an S if

Sure Grip equipped. After 1965, a tag was affixed under one of the carrier mounting nuts to identify the ratio. If Sure Grip equipped, an additional Sure Grip lube tag was sometimes affixed; later years sometimes had the filler plug painted orange.

Gear ratios available on the 8-3/4" axle through the years include:

2.76, 2.93, 3.23, 3.31, 3.55, 3.73, 3.91, 4.10, 4.56, 4.89, 5.17, 5.57.

On OEM gear sets, the ratio is usually stamped on the edge of the ring gear. Ratio can be determined by the number of teeth on the ring gear divided by the number of teeth on the pinion gear or by counting the ratio of the number of turns of the pinion relative to one turn of the axle shaft.

The 8-3/4" center section is removed from the front of the housing. It is retained by 10 nuts on studs in the housing. The rear of the housing is smooth, the back is welded onto the main housing.

The axle tubes are part of the overall housing. To remove the center section, remove the wheels, brake drums, and drive shaft. Chrysler Cars made pre-1965 units have a pressed-on brake hub. Remove the axle shafts, 5 bolts on the backing plate flange on post 64 units, use puller for pressed-in pre-65 units.

Remove the 10 nuts on the housing studs around the carrier perimeter. Remove the carrier...may require prying, fluid will drain when carrier gasket seal is broken.<br>

Any 8-3/4" center section may be interchanged for another as an entire assembly.

Sure Grip

"Sure Grip" is the Chrysler name for a limited slip differential. It was optional on the 8-3/4" axles, 1958-1974.

Two styles were used.

1958-1969 used the Dana Power-Lock Pt# 2881487). This unit utilized clutches for the differential locking action. The Power-Lock can be rebuilt using kit # 2070845 ( Mopar Performance PT # P4529484 ). In this assembly, axle drive shaft end thrust is taken by the thrust block assembly (replacement # 2881313). This Sure Grip appeared in the 741 and 742 assemblies. The axle bearings are: 25590 Timken cone, and 25520 cup, Chrysler numbers 1790523 and 696403).

The Dana Power-Lock can be recognized by its bolt-together assembly, bolts around the side opposite the ring gear, and multiple openings exposing the cross shafts.

1969-1974 used the Borg Warner Spin Resistant (# 2881343). This unit utilized a spring-preloaded cone friction arrangement for the locking action. Axle end thrust is taken by the cross shaft.

This Sure Grip appeared in 489 assemblies and 70 and later 741/742 assemblies.
8 3/4 Mopar Differental Rears
 
We sort of went off track on a related thread, so I figured I should start this new, more specific question on the appropriate category...

The reason I posted this thread is because my Dad said that the setup we've installed in my Dart will make about 400+ hp...

Was hoping to be able to generally figure this out just by the setup and car, originally.
Now I just want to know what's good and bad about it, and if it will fit my needs...
(It's already built mostly, just finishing electrical and such, and then interior etc. but slight changes can be made like rear gearing)

Its a 383, 727, 8 3/4, 742 suregrip, 323 gears in rear atm, and I have 2800 stall, and 27 diameter rear tires... Also, Shumacher headers...
With 750 edelbrock carb, Street dominator holly aluminum intake, stealth aluminum heads (just looked over and squared), light weight anything possible (aluminum radiator and water pump housing, etc), Comp Cam 268 extreme energy (4.88 lift/hydraulic), 9.1 - 9.3 compression (current estimation), stock gaskets, etc...

Is this a good street setup for my '70 Dart? I will probably raise the compression by a few methods later on, but this will be how she sits for now...
So I have just found out that my cam is the xe 274. And I forgot to mention the holly street dominator intake...

This cam makes a bit more sense right?
 
With a Properly matched compression ratio, and gears your combo will fly. Nevermind how much absolute power it makes.
And nevermind about the SG/posi argument;it's been raging for decades.
The 383 is a short stroke/big bore design, and needs to be wound out to make the number. The 274 will help you to your goal.The rest is in the heads.Make sure she has adequate spring pressure to keep the valve train from going crazy, and install a rev-limiter. Then have fun.
One of the reasons to forget about the absolute power number in a street car is because you don't get there until around 50 mph with 3.23s.And the speed limit is likely to be a lot less,when you drop the hammer. And even on the hiway,you still have to get to 50 where the power starts.
For a streeter, a strong torquey bottom end is far more valuable than almost any absolute power number at 5500 plus rpm.400 ftlbs at stall, trumps 400 hp at 5500 easy. Unless you can't hook 'em, then it's just big fun to smoke the tires all the way to the speed limit. But you won't be showing too many guys your taillights with that strategy.
 
With a Properly matched compression ratio, and gears your combo will fly. Nevermind how much absolute power it makes.
And nevermind about the SG/posi argument;it's been raging for decades.
The 383 is a short stroke/big bore design, and needs to be wound out to make the number. The 274 will help you to your goal.The rest is in the heads.Make sure she has adequate spring pressure to keep the valve train from going crazy, and install a rev-limiter. Then have fun.
One of the reasons to forget about the absolute power number in a street car is because you don't get there until around 50 mph with 3.23s.And the speed limit is likely to be a lot less,when you drop the hammer. And even on the hiway,you still have to get to 50 where the power starts.
For a streeter, a strong torquey bottom end is far more valuable than almost any absolute power number at 5500 plus rpm.400 ftlbs at stall, trumps 400 hp at 5500 easy. Unless you can't hook 'em, then it's just big fun to smoke the tires all the way to the speed limit. But you won't be showing too many guys your taillights with that strategy.
what's a rev- limiter?
 
With a Properly matched compression ratio, and gears your combo will fly. Nevermind how much absolute power it makes.
And nevermind about the SG/posi argument;it's been raging for decades.
The 383 is a short stroke/big bore design, and needs to be wound out to make the number. The 274 will help you to your goal.The rest is in the heads.Make sure she has adequate spring pressure to keep the valve train from going crazy, and install a rev-limiter. Then have fun.
One of the reasons to forget about the absolute power number in a street car is because you don't get there until around 50 mph with 3.23s.And the speed limit is likely to be a lot less,when you drop the hammer. And even on the hiway,you still have to get to 50 where the power starts.
For a streeter, a strong torquey bottom end is far more valuable than almost any absolute power number at 5500 plus rpm.400 ftlbs at stall, trumps 400 hp at 5500 easy. Unless you can't hook 'em, then it's just big fun to smoke the tires all the way to the speed limit. But you won't be showing too many guys your taillights with that strategy.
So you think a 3.55 rear would help out a bunch in this equation, then?

I will be driving from Idaho to Oklahoma with it first off, n then out to shows eventually, occasionally, but mostly around town...
 
So you think a 3.55 rear would help out a bunch in this equation, then?

I will be driving from Idaho to Oklahoma with it first off, n then out to shows eventually, occasionally, but mostly around town...
I run 3.55s with a 367 cuber and a 276/286/110 cam.
This is a poor combo for the highway. and
Not the best I've had for around town either. But with a 3.09 low, the starter gear is 10.97, and 5000rpm,where the power starts,is 37mph. And that is really big fun. The .78 GearVendor O/D brings the Rs down to 2200ish at 65mph. And that is also great!
What's not great is the 276* cam that is pretty hard on fuel. But since the car is no longer my DD, I'm leaving it in there. My previous cam was a 270/110&223@.050. This puppy was waaaaaay more fuel-friendly.I think the 3.58 stroke had something to do with that. The smaller cam also had quite a bit more off-the-line grunt. But it was done a bit earlier too. For such a small difference in sizing (6*intake) It made a huge difference. I really liked that smaller cam.
The difference from 3.55s to 3.23s is 10%. That's 10% more grunt off the line, and 10% more rpm on the hiway.The engine will run up the tach a bit quicker too. But with your 2800TC I'd leave the 3.23s in, at least for a while.
-Personally, in a lightweight 70Dart, I'd probably go with a a little less cam, if the room was there in the Dcr. Two sizes down would make so much torque,you will have to tub it to put some decent tires on it. And the 3.23s will be perfect. Peak torque might be around 40mph in first, which means when you punch it at 40, and the tranny goes into first,she will light up pretty much any tire you can fit into the stock tubs, and more. Those 3.23s will get you 2600@65mph. With a cam one or two sizes smaller, the fuel consumption will go down, and that put's money back into your pocket. But if there is no room in the Dcr, having to run premium takes the money back out.
 
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Leave the 3.23 gears in it and get it all sorted out.Once you have it dialed in and running well then try swapping carbs to a 750 holley and I bet it will be faster.

If you like edelbrocks then run the 800 afb style offering.
 
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