Anyone running catalytic converters on car with flat tappet cam?

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JTG

JTG

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What type of oil does one use to ensure it has enough zinc to help protect the cam against wear, yet not too much zinc that it will damage the catalytic converters?
 
I don't know how much zinc it takes to ruin a converter, but all sorts of vehicles are running oils with additional zinc. How much oil do you think is going to go through the converter? Why would the cam make a difference?
 
Good question, I have no idea how much zinc or over what duration of time it would take to ruin the cats. What is the happen medium, its like a catch 22, you need a certain amount of zinc especially with a high lift cam, but not too much that it will destroy the expensive high flow cats. What is minimum amount of zinc that is required for flat tappets with a high lift cam?
The only reason I'm running cats is due to my health otherwise this wouldn't be an issue.
 
What vehicle do you have with a flat tappet and a cat?
 
roccodart440 said:
What vehicle do you have with a flat tappet and a cat?
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Hi roccodart440, its a 68 Barracuda with a 340, with a crane cam with a 520 lift, cats are high flow from Vibrant Performance as shown in pic.
7525.jpg
 
Why do you have cats on it? It won't take long for zinc to kill the converter. That's why it was eliminated. No matter how well the rings seal, there is oil migration past the rings. The zinc gets on the catalyst and kills it quick.
 
yellow rose said:
Why do you have cats on it? It won't take long for zinc to kill the converter. That's why it was eliminated. No matter how well the rings seal, there is oil migration past the rings. The zinc gets on the catalyst and kills it quick.
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Hi yellow rose, I'm running cats due to health issues involving my respiratory system. Because of the cats this is the reason I'm asking what is the minimum ppm of zinc that is required for adequate protection for a high lift cam yet won't kill the converters anytime soon. Example: Valvoline VR1 has 1400ppm is that enough for a high lift cam or do you need an oil with a higher amount of zinc. Oil has ppm levels of zinc that range from low 600 ppm to 6500 ppm and higher. Just need an oil that will keep my cam and converters living in harmony together.
 
JTG said:
Hi yellow rose, I'm running cats due to health issues involving my respiratory system. Because of the cats this is the reason I'm asking what is the minimum ppm of zinc that is required for adequate protection for a high lift cam yet won't kill the converters anytime soon. Example: Valvoline VR1 has 1400ppm is that enough for a high lift cam or do you need an oil with a higher amount of zinc. Oil has ppm levels of zinc that range from low 600 ppm to 6500 ppm and higher. Just need an oil that will keep my cam and converters living in harmony together.
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You need to call some one that makes oil, ask them, bite the bullet and use exactly what they say. You are a very rare case. The zinc is primarily in there to keep the cam alive. When the government decided to eliminate zinc from engine oil, for several reasons, it forced everyone to switch to roller lifters. Bet your butt the OEM's would still use flat tappet lifters if they could. But they can't, because zinc kills the cats, and with out zinc the cam dies a miserable death. I think any zinc will eventually get to th cat and kill it. More zinc, quicker death. Less zinc, slower death.

All that said, you need to call someone and follow what they say, and not let internet wizards guide your decisions. And yes, that includes me.

I use Torco, but some guys squeal at the cost. LAT is a top level oil with Torco, but it's price point is the same as Torco. Plus, I'm not sure LAT has any street oils. There is Driven. And Lucas. I'd call them all. Ask questions. Take notes. I wouldn't let price dictate what you do.

Torco
LAT
Driven
Lucas

Post up what they say. It may help someone else. But I doubt many are in your predicament.
 
It may be reduced but there are guys here running diesel oil in their flat tappet mills because they still have decent zinc content.

My diesels are emissions delete. :lol:
 
I have a 96 Plymouth Neon with 250,000 miles on it. I have only run Valvoline SAE 30 Racing oil with high Zinc, every 3,000 miles, since it was new. Original Cats still in the car, no codes. Not sure who to believe anymore. Seems like a lot of BS coming from our Gov't anymore...
 
I thought zinc was mostly required for cam "break in", at least that when I use higher zinc oil??

Treblig
 
66fs said:
I have a 96 Plymouth Neon with 250,000 miles on it. I have only run Valvoline SAE 30 Racing oil with high Zinc, every 3,000 miles, since it was new. Original Cats still in the car, no codes. Not sure who to believe anymore. Seems like a lot of BS coming from our Gov't anymore...
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Entirely possible to have a barely functioning or dead CAT and no codes. Just the restriction in the exhaust alone can cause enough heat build up to burn up quite a bit of 'stuff' and cause enough difference in the reading at the 2nd O2 sensor to keep things from coding.

Not every state, county, etc, requires emissions and those that do don't all test to the same limits or even to factory limits per year. So it's entirely possible to pass emissions testing with a dead/plugged/shot-out CAT.

That said, if someone is adding it for reasons of physical sensitivity, they probably want it to work well enough and not be short lived either. There's some companies advertising zinc-replacement packages that contain no zinc. No idea if they work, I'd want to hear word from an engine builder or two before believing it.

Personally, if I were being forced to add CATs to save my lungs, I'd probably look at investing in a roller valvetrain too. Reduced reliance on EP additives and less chance of fouling the CATs. But that's a lot more cost too.
 
mobil 1 Has just enough zinc to get by with a flat tappet IF you have a good quality cam and lifters. I dont think the cat will be affected too much and if it does eventually wear out the cat, hey you can always replace the cat. the aftermarket cats dont cost too much.[relatively speaking]. I remember in the 'old days' a new car from the late 70's the cats would only last about 5 or 6 years anyway [with regular mileage ]. So if this is not a daily driver, I'd think the cats would last awhile. You will need to keep the 'tune' really tight though. IMHO.
 
Phreakish said:
Entirely possible to have a barely functioning or dead CAT and no codes. Just the restriction in the exhaust alone can cause enough heat build up to burn up quite a bit of 'stuff' and cause enough difference in the reading at the 2nd O2 sensor to keep things from coding.

Not every state, county, etc, requires emissions and those that do don't all test to the same limits or even to factory limits per year. So it's entirely possible to pass emissions testing with a dead/plugged/shot-out CAT.

That said, if someone is adding it for reasons of physical sensitivity, they probably want it to work well enough and not be short lived either. There's some companies advertising zinc-replacement packages that contain no zinc. No idea if they work, I'd want to hear word from an engine builder or two before believing it.

Personally, if I were being forced to add CATs to save my lungs, I'd probably look at investing in a roller valvetrain too. Reduced reliance on EP additives and less chance of fouling the CATs. But that's a lot more cost too.
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Not really buying all that. I think the "Zinc Danger" is way overblown like a lot of other Gov't BS.
 
66fs said:
Not really buying all that. I think the "Zinc Danger" is way overblown like a lot of other Gov't BS.
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Yeah, the gov't went and used their voodoo to control chemistry just to screw with you. :realcrazy:

It's really no wonder there's a lack of quality technical posts here. Engineering, science, chemistry.. it's all just goobermint and snake oil salesmen. I guess everything really did peak in 1969 and it's all been BS since.
 
Phreakish said:
Yeah, the gov't went and used their voodoo to control chemistry just to screw with you. :realcrazy:

It's really no wonder there's a lack of quality technical posts here. Engineering, science, chemistry.. it's all just goobermint and snake oil salesmen. I guess everything really did peak in 1969 and it's all been BS since.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I am an Engineer. I was taught to think. Not just believe what someone tells me. Let alone not suspend belief in the wake of evidence...
 
Phreakish said:
Entirely possible to have a barely functioning or dead CAT and no codes. Just the restriction in the exhaust alone can cause enough heat build up to burn up quite a bit of 'stuff' and cause enough difference in the reading at the 2nd O2 sensor to keep things from coding.

Not every state, county, etc, requires emissions and those that do don't all test to the same limits or even to factory limits per year. So it's entirely possible to pass emissions testing with a dead/plugged/shot-out CAT.

That said, if someone is adding it for reasons of physical sensitivity, they probably want it to work well enough and not be short lived either. There's some companies advertising zinc-replacement packages that contain no zinc. No idea if they work, I'd want to hear word from an engine builder or two before believing it.

Personally, if I were being forced to add CATs to save my lungs, I'd probably look at investing in a roller valvetrain too. Reduced reliance on EP additives and less chance of fouling the CATs. But that's a lot more cost too.
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Hi Phreakish, there is a zinc replacement additive called Hyper Lube, not too many people are familiar with this stuff including myself, my engine is recently rebuilt and only has about 1500kms on it. I talked to a representative at Hyper Lube and was told that their product is not to be used during the initial break-in and can be used after the car leaves the engine builder. I don't agree with this, as synthetic oil is not be used until the engine has reached its first 3000miles or 5000kms and I believe Hyper Lube is synthetic based. Plus I'm leery about using a product that all the car guys I know have never heard of.
Now I wish I put a roller valve train, then again at the time engine was being rebuilt would never have thought I'd be running cats.
HPZ212.jpg
 
omahamoparguy said:
mobil 1 Has just enough zinc to get by with a flat tappet IF you have a good quality cam and lifters. I dont think the cat will be affected too much and if it does eventually wear out the cat, hey you can always replace the cat. the aftermarket cats dont cost too much.[relatively speaking]. I remember in the 'old days' a new car from the late 70's the cats would only last about 5 or 6 years anyway [with regular mileage ]. So if this is not a daily driver, I'd think the cats would last awhile. You will need to keep the 'tune' really tight though. IMHO.
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Hi omahamoparguy, the lift on my cam is high (520), I might need a little higher zinc based oil for this reason then again want the hell do I know. The high flow cats are expensive about 340 U.S each, not something you want to replace soon. I talked to Vibrant Performance where these cats came from and they more or less said what your saying, that if the car is not a daily driver then the cats should last awhile.
 
Last edited:
yellow rose said:
You need to call some one that makes oil, ask them, bite the bullet and use exactly what they say. You are a very rare case. The zinc is primarily in there to keep the cam alive. When the government decided to eliminate zinc from engine oil, for several reasons, it forced everyone to switch to roller lifters. Bet your butt the OEM's would still use flat tappet lifters if they could. But they can't, because zinc kills the cats, and with out zinc the cam dies a miserable death. I think any zinc will eventually get to th cat and kill it. More zinc, quicker death. Less zinc, slower death.

All that said, you need to call someone and follow what they say, and not let internet wizards guide your decisions. And yes, that includes me.

I use Torco, but some guys squeal at the cost. LAT is a top level oil with Torco, but it's price point is the same as Torco. Plus, I'm not sure LAT has any street oils. There is Driven. And Lucas. I'd call them all. Ask questions. Take notes. I wouldn't let price dictate what you do.

Torco
LAT
Driven
Lucas

Post up what they say. It may help someone else. But I doubt many are in your predicament.
Click to expand...

Hi Yellow Rose, I hoping a performance engine builder on here will post their thoughts in regards to my situation. If my cam lift wasn't as high then I wouldn't be as concerned. I believe Torco is synthetic which can't be run in a rebuilt engine till it hits 3000miles.
 
JTG said:
Hi Phreakish, there is a zinc replacement additive called Hyper Lube, not too many people are familiar with this stuff including myself, my engine is recently rebuilt and only has about 1500kms on it.
Click to expand...

Note in the lower left portion of their ad, it says "Does not contain zinc or phosphorus"...
 
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