Where should I start?

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89on35s

Inferno Red Duster
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I tried to think of the specs that I know for my current combo that will affect its ability in the 1/4 mile. I am new to drag racing as I just got my car on the road last summer and never made it out to the track. So here's what I have,

74 Duster stock street weight (I'll weigh it in the spring)
360 with unknown internals (Does great burn outs)
Stock dished pistons
Mid 70s 360 heads assumed stock
LD4B intake with 670 Street Avenger Holley carb
Stock Electronic Ignition
15 deg @ idle, not sure what it is at all in on a stock vac advance distributor
1 5/8 tube 4 into 1 long tube headers with 2 1/2" H pipe equipped exhaust right out to the bumper
A-904 with unknown stall Torque Convertor
Hurst Quarter Stick Shifter
8 1/4" rear with 3.23 gear and a S.G. diff (About 2800 rpm @ 70 mph)
Mopar Performance Mexican SS springs
Stock 318 torsion bars
Stock Shocks front and rear
Sub frame connectors
Front Disc/Rear Drum brakes
245/60-15 Cooper Cobra rear
215/60-15 Cooper AT-3 front

I know I need new rear tires to start because I have no traction what so ever but after I do that, Likely 275/60-15 drag radials on a pair of 15x8 cop wheels I have, Where is the best bang for the buck in a street legal drag car that won't ever have a cage in it but would eventually morph into a 12 second street car.

I'd like to leave the motor as is for now as it seems strong with good oil pressure and really I'd like to see how much I can get out of it. I in the spring I'll tune it as best I can with what I have. Gears? I have an 8 3/4 housing I can build up for it. Torque convertor? I want to spend my money wisely and learn as I go.

Cley
 
Cley, welcome aboard and to the drag racing/performance bug.

The torque converter needs to have some "Known" specs of the other parts of the car, engine and intended gear ratio before ordering one. There are a few really good places out there to r torque converters.

I gondownnthe street for mine. Nice to have a local place worth there salt;
ProTorque High Performance Drag Racing Torque Converters

But there is also Frank Lupo and .... a half dozen others.

Also, with 3.23 gears, adding a tall tire like you listed above will just make you slower. Ether up the ratio (3.91 - 4.10) or drop the tire diameter. (26 inch instead of nearly 28.)

May I suggest a game plan before you proceed any further? Make the plan to get into the low low 12's first. (Track times)
Then deduct a 1/2 for the street.

Go to the racers forum and view the sticky posts up top. There are posts on how our forum members have gotten into the thread titles bracket time.

The thread(s) were sticked up there to help people achieve a goal without busting a brain cell or there wallet.
Enjoy!
 
Best bang for the buck is fix the suspension, keep the 28", six cyl torsion bars, 90/10 shocks in the front, 70/30 in the rear. You wont believe the difference in traction, and maybe pinion snubber, you shouldn't need one with ss springs
 
Like most others I suggest that you start from the rear of the car and work your way forward . Safety first : good seat belts, Snell2015 helmet , driveshaft loop , puke tank , working headlights and taillights . After that a 3.90/4.10 ring and pinion with good shocks and a pinion snubber . Transmission at the very least should have a shift kit and a large cooler . the converter stall can be tested as previously discussed . Test , test and test again . Get yourself a dial back timing light and set total timing @ 32* to start and increase by 2* until car slows down or rolls over . Start a jet loop at @ #68 and work up by 2 numbers until car rolls over or breaks up . Start a log book and keep it up to date . that's the fun part . Learn the tree : every car reacts different . Find out where to leave before you red light . Also great fun . DO NOT GET DISCOURAGED . A good drag racer looses 92% of the time . We are running a '66 Cuda in street trim . She turns mid 10's , does 2ft wheelies and is wicked fast . Took us 8 years to get there , good luck
 
Thanks for the input guys. I read the 12 second combo thread as suggested and I saw many ways to get to my end goal (And beyond). Over the winter, I will have to address a few leaks and ensure it passes tech, but I was working on that before and I think I’m pretty much there.

I really think I’ll run it exactly like it is for the first time out. Then I’ll get a true understanding of what my mods do to benefit my time and MPH. I will however build up that 8 ¾ housing I already have with a 4.10 SG center and pick up some drag radials because I know I’m going to want that anyway. Next I guess I’ll try shocks in the rear cause that will be pretty cheap I would assume. Oh and that driveshaft hoop sounds like a great idea too.

From there I guess I’ll get a strip kit for my Holley, a better timing light and see what I can squeeze out of this motor/trans combo.

I did remove the heavy back bracing behind my front bumper while putting the car together, but I guess I’ll have to look at places to shed weight that won’t affect street comfort as well.

I know how to check my convertor stall with my foot on the brake, but for flash stall, do I just floor it from a standstill and see how high the tach goes?

Cley
 
the 4.10's will need the tall 275/60's. Not too fun on the street but it depends on you definition of fun. Of course an overdrive trans could help. If its strickly a drag car, no problemo.
 
Overdrive will definitely be in my future. For now, I'll likely swap between the 4.10 and 3.23 centersections I have for race days and longer distance cruises.
 
Overdrive will definitely be in my future. For now, I'll likely swap between the 4.10 and 3.23 centersections I have for race days and longer distance cruises.

OD will be your friend on the street!
Your current 904 tranny ratios are 2.70 (Low), 1.54 (2nd) and 1.00 (Drive).
When you're ready to go OD, I suggest you take a look at some of the threads here on FABO regarding using a 200-4R OD tranny in place of your 904. The 200-4R ratios are very similar, but slightly better than, your current 904: 2.74, 1.57, 1.00 and 0.67 OD
My current '69 Dart build is using a reverse-pattern, full-manual shift 200-4R built by Extreme Automatics. I'm planning on 4.30 gears in my 8.75. Should be fun on both the street and the freeway since the 4.30 gears will be like 2.88s on the freeway in OD.
Can't wait to get it finished and hitting the street!
 
Thanks for the input guys. I read the 12 second combo thread as suggested and I saw many ways to get to my end goal (And beyond). Over the winter, I will have to address a few leaks and ensure it passes tech, but I was working on that before and I think I’m pretty much there.

I really think I’ll run it exactly like it is for the first time out. Then I’ll get a true understanding of what my mods do to benefit my time and MPH. I will however build up that 8 ¾ housing I already have with a 4.10 SG center and pick up some drag radials because I know I’m going to want that anyway. Next I guess I’ll try shocks in the rear cause that will be pretty cheap I would assume. Oh and that driveshaft hoop sounds like a great idea too.

From there I guess I’ll get a strip kit for my Holley, a better timing light and see what I can squeeze out of this motor/trans combo.

I did remove the heavy back bracing behind my front bumper while putting the car together, but I guess I’ll have to look at places to shed weight that won’t affect street comfort as well.

I know how to check my convertor stall with my foot on the brake, but for flash stall, do I just floor it from a standstill and see how high the tach goes?

Cley
I personally would start in the front, if you can't get the weight tranfer the car will never get good traction, 90/10s and six cyl bars you can get at a boneyard for cheap is definaly the cheapest thing to do. I have raced mopars from the late 70s with no money and over the years have found the cheapest ways to go faster. 4.88 gears will get your rpm high in high gear, don't want to go through the traps in second gear. do the convertor last you need to have the car close to benifit from the right convertor, there expensive you don't want to get the wrong one.
 
I personally would start in the front, if you can't get the weight tranfer the car will never get good traction, 90/10s and six cyl bars you can get at a boneyard for cheap is definaly the cheapest thing to do. I have raced mopars from the late 70s with no money and over the years have found the cheapest ways to go faster. 4.88 gears will get your rpm high in high gear, don't want to go through the traps in second gear. do the convertor last you need to have the car close to benifit from the right convertor, there expensive you don't want to get the wrong one.

I read this and think I'd end up with a more drag specific car than I am looking for. I still want to maintain good street manners. I find my car very soft in the front already, won't the 6 cyl torsion bars make that worse? I do appreciate your suggestions and I hear/read about this same approach from others. As far as a 4.88 gear, I can't imagine how that would scream on the highway. I am about 70 miles from my local track and I do hope to drive there and back. I'm afraid even the 4.10s will be too low.

Cley
 
I have been building my car on a budget slowly over the last 4 years. I don't think the 6 cyn torsion bars are necessary because I have gotten my car to hook with a similar suspension that you are talking about with 318 torsion bars, SS springs, 90/10s up front and 275/60/15 M/T drag radials. Been a 1.66 60ft time pulling front drivers tire off the ground.

By the way this car still gets street driven A LOT.
 
These guys have already given you some good suggestions and I'm glad you're gonna put the 8.75 rearend in it with the 275/60/15 tires and run the car as it is after that for a baseline. I run that tire on my Duster on an 8" wheel with 4.5" backspacing.

Small blocks really like a lot of gearing, your motor would probably like a 4.10 but it will be miserable driving 70 miles to the track with anything over your current 3.23, a 3.73 ratio is the highest I would go in something that gets driven a lot but that's only my opinion.
An A-500 overdrive trans will bolt right up to your motor, but might require some dents in the floor and different trans crossmember, I'm not real sure on that but it would be way cheaper than any other overdrive setup.

A 'Good' converter makes a huge difference in a car with a stock type converter. Get some affordable shocks and go from there. You can always add stuff as money allows, such as heads, headers, intake, carb etc. Free flowing exhaust, or cutouts, will also help.
 
My knickle's worth is spelled SUPERCHARGED
You get to keep the 3.23s,
and no need for an overdrive.
Your engine already has the right compression ratio.
You will have so much torque, you may get to keep the current TC.
You get to keep all the current suspension pieces.
If you go turbo,you get to ditch half your exhaust system.Well that's not really fair cuz the new one will need to be bigger,lol.
What you end up with is a car that operates exactly like the one you have now, except it's a tractor around town, and a screaming jet-engine when you open it up.
And it won't cost you $12,000 to go low 12s.
Make sure your brakes are up to the task, cuz things are gonna happen dramatically faster.You might as well put 5-point harnesses in too.
And if you put 3 other um mature fellows in the car,It will hardly slow the car down at all around town. Just try that with your NA-360.
Adding 600 pounds of humans to your NA-360 will make it seem that she just lost her secondaries, and more. But worse is taking off with that 2000/2200 stock TC. It will feel like a loaded grain truck on soft black dirt.
The turbo car? Hah! A lil more throttle and look out! The boys will be giggling like little school-girls.
As for me, I would put a little lever or easy-button somewhere, and I would put a lil label on it that read "Maximum-overdrive", or "hemi-power", or "after-burners". Yeah, I like that last one.
This would be the boost control bypass.
We know the stock 360 parts can be taken 400/450 hp, and last for many years. So to take your 250hp to 450 is just a matter of bolting on the right sized turbo.
What you may not know, is that the NA 360 will give up some low-speed driveability, to make the power at the other end. NOT-SO the supercharged 360; it will start making power very early.Power that the NA 360 could never duplicate.And it will keep on making more and more, til either it blows up, or blows off, or you lift.Lift-off the gas that is.
Your biggest problem will be traction.
OK so; this is my dream. If I ever get a do-over chance, I'm going turbo. Turbo anything. Maybe even a turbo 273. I think a 273 could make 350hp easy enough, and I bet I could pull 30mpgs out of it on the hiway;point to point.Hyup, that's my dream.
Well I guess those skinny 273 rods would have to go.lol
 
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If you're worried about gears put a set of 3.55's in the 8 3/4 and run a 275/50 MT radial, it's just over 26" tall. For the street run a pair of 275/60 radials.
 
If you're worried about gears put a set of 3.55's in the 8 3/4 and run a 275/50 MT radial, it's just over 26" tall. For the street run a pair of 275/60 radials.

About 4 years ago I went from 5.14's to 3.50 gears and only slowed down a half a tenth in the 1/8 and I was crossing the finish line in 2nd gear. Went from 6.34@ 108 to 6.39@ 109.
 
D50394
IIRC you are running a turbo,right?lol.

OP;
275/50-15s to 275/60-15s is about a 9.4% difference. All mopar chunks from 3.55 down(in numbers) are also about that same 9% difference. [From 3.55 larger (in number),they are about 5% change per size.]So the tire swap is way easier than the chunk swap. Unfortunately, it's a one-size swap, from minimum to maximum. Still 9% at hiway speeds is about 5 to 6mph, or 200 to 300 rpm,or about the same as a lock-up convertor.
Is it worthwhile? It wasn't for me. But neither was swapping chunks.
Trying to get a 74 Duster into the 12s with a stock LC long-block and bolt-ons,is gonna be an exercise in futility.You are gonna need a power-adder.
The turbo idea, solves this issue very neatly. Never worry about chunks, or tires, or lock-ups, again.Just put it in D,and let the turbo do the work.
If you want to really impress yourself,run two of them; a little-one and a bit-bigger one;staging them.The little one will blast you off the line, (think VW Jetta with a 1.8liter),and the lil-bigger one will carry the power through the midrange, and beyond; in effect eclipsing perhaps a stroker. If you get it dialed in just right,and keeping up in the traction department, you will have a force to be reckoned with.
These ideas are not mine, nor are they new. Nor are they easy.Most of the fabrication work will be custom, especially the big-N-little. The nice thing about duals, is that the secondary turbo can be remote mounted, while the smaller one, is, well, small.
The smaller turbo can be replaced with a little shot of N2O, to get the bigger remote turbo spooled up sooner. But refilling the bottle all the time is not for me. Some guys have made the remotes work really well.

So basically, I think the things that turn people away from this combo are;
a)fear of the unknown,
b)unwillingness to not have a car to drive while the fab.work is going on,and
c)the fear that if one cannot finish the project all this money is tied up and you may as well have just set your cash on fire.

But here's how I see it;
Building a 350/400 SBM is neither cheap, easy, or particularly quick. It is easier if you sublet it, but you have to trust the builder. Then when the engine comes back, about a week later the tranny blows up and you have to spend more time and money. So now you have a power-house but stock teeners are embarrassing you at every light. So you pull the tranny down and install a big TC. Now you are sling-shotting off the line and the racing bug hits you. You go to the track, and find out it is really fast, but not very quick. So next track day you show up with 4.30s and the ET is getting there. But you are burning up the tires most of the way down the track. So back to the drawing board. You narrow the rear-end and put some serious rubber back there, and off to the track you go. Ok now she's 60 footing pretty good and the ET is where it aught to be.
Of course, along the way, you discover that the ignition system cannot keep up, nor can the cooling system, nor can the fuel system. So all of those had to be upgraded. Furthermore, getting the beast slowed down at the big-end was a real challenge, so bigger better brakes were needed. By this time you are into the project for something like; engine=7000,+tranny/TC=3000,+rear=2000,+suspension=2500,+ig/fuel/cooling/other=1500,total over $16,000Canadian.So maybe $12,000Usd.
And what do you have? You have a purpose built machine that goes like snot, stops on a dime and is able to burn up fuel at an alarming rate,all summer long;no matter what you try. It is loud and obnoxious and is a cop-magnate.As soon as it gets cold out, into hibernation it goes.After a while nobody will ride with you cuz the tranny wants to break your neck on every shift, and 65mph is screaming down the road at 3400 rpm.So you end up cruising by yourself, wondering if you made a mistake.And eventually after a few years the car has accumulated 12000 miles; or about a dollar a mile, and you're just not that interested in driving it anymore. So it languishes under a tarp, until the body returns to dust,the rings seize in the bores, as do the valve-stems, and the valve-springs fade away.
But as to the turbo car, when the fun has run it's course, you pull off the turbo kit, and sell it to someone here on FABO.Then return the car to stock, and sell it; or,continue to drive it 4 seasons until there is nothing left to drive.
If the car doesn't ET that well, heck it's boosted; crank it up till it's too fast for you. If it blows up, hey a replacement used engine is about $200 bucks, and next weekend you are back in business!
Ok,anyway, that's my dream.
I already have the engine(s) lined up.
Sooooooooo,where should you start?
I say, how deep are your pockets and what are you hoping to to achieve?

Now I read that you want to qtr mile it,
And I did not see any reference to street driving.
But I did see such things as; eventually,and morph, and long distance cruises, and good street manners,etc.
A 12 second NA-car is or can be a real nice streeter. And once you are into it, the bug may bite harder. When this happens you may be tempted to throw a lot of money at it to go just a little bit faster. Then the thought comes to you that you've got all this money tied up in a car that accumulates mileage at an microscopically tiny rate. So to get some value out of your dough, you may decide to run it more as a streeter. A 12 second streeter is very much fun.
I think a turbo is a viable alternative for you. Easy 400hp. Easy torque monster.With 3.23s easy on gas. Cruising at 2500=65 is nice. Not having a 4000TC is nicer. An engine that doesn't overheat,idles like a stocker, has factory manners,etc; these are all good too.
Trying to get a 74 Duster into the 12s with a stock LC long-block and bolt-ons,is gonna be an exercise in futility.You are gonna need a power-adder.
 
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D50394
IIRC you are running a turbo,right?lol.

OP;
275/50-15s to 275/60-15s is about a 9.4% difference. All mopar chunks from 3.55 down(in numbers) are also about that same 9% difference. [From 3.55 larger (in number),they are about 5% change per size.]So the tire swap is way easier than the chunk swap. Unfortunately, it's a one-size swap, from minimum to maximum. Still 9% at hiway speeds is about 5 to 6mph, or 200 to 300 rpm,or about the same as a lock-up convertor.
Is it worthwhile? It wasn't for me. But neither was swapping chunks.
Trying to get a 74 Duster into the 12s with a stock LC long-block and bolt-ons,is gonna be an exercise in futility.You are gonna need a power-adder.
The turbo idea, solves this issue very neatly. Never worry about chunks, or tires, or lock-ups, again.Just put it in D,and let the turbo do the work.
If you want to really impress yourself,run two of them; a little-one and a bit-bigger one;staging them.The little one will blast you off the line, (think VW Jetta with a 1.8liter),and the lil-bigger one will carry the power through the midrange, and beyond; in effect eclipsing perhaps a stroker. If you get it dialed in just right,and keeping up in the traction department, you will have a force to be reckoned with.
These ideas are not mine, nor are they new. Nor are they easy.Most of the fabrication work will be custom, especially the big-N-little. The nice thing about duals, is that the secondary turbo can be remote mounted, while the smaller one, is, well, small.
The smaller turbo can be replaced with a little shot of N2O, to get the bigger remote turbo spooled up sooner. But refilling the bottle all the time is not for me. Some guys have made the remotes work really well.

So basically, I think the things that turn people away from this combo are;
a)fear of the unknown,
b)unwillingness to not have a car to drive while the fab.work is going on,and
c)the fear that if one cannot finish the project all this money is tied up and you may as well have just set your cash on fire.

But here's how I see it;
Building a 350/400 SBM is neither cheap, easy, or particularly quick. It is easier if you sublet it, but you have to trust the builder. Then when the engine comes back, about a week later the tranny blows up and you have to spend more time and money. So now you have a power-house but stock teeners are embarrassing you at every light. So you pull the tranny down and install a big TC. Now you are sling-shotting off the line and the racing bug hits you. You go to the track, and find out it is really fast, but not very quick. So next track day you show up with 4.30s and the ET is getting there. But you are burning up the tires most of the way down the track. So back to the drawing board. You narrow the rear-end and put some serious rubber back there, and off to the track you go. Ok now she's 60 footing pretty good and the ET is where it aught to be.
Of course, along the way, you discover that the ignition system cannot keep up, nor can the cooling system, nor can the fuel system. So all of those had to be upgraded. Furthermore, getting the beast slowed down at the big-end was a real challenge, so bigger better brakes were needed. By this time you are into the project for something like; engine=7000,+tranny/TC=3000,+rear=2000,+suspension=2500,+ig/fuel/cooling/other=1500,total over $16,000Canadian.So maybe $12,000Usd.
And what do you have? You have a purpose built machine that goes like snot, stops on a dime and is able to burn up fuel at an alarming rate,all summer long;no matter what you try. It is loud and obnoxious and is a cop-magnate.As soon as it gets cold out, into hibernation it goes.After a while nobody will ride with you cuz the tranny wants to break your neck on every shift, and 65mph is screaming down the road at 3400 rpm.So you end up cruising by yourself, wondering if you made a mistake.And eventually after a few years the car has accumulated 12000 miles; or about a dollar a mile, and you're just not that interested in driving it anymore. So it languishes under a tarp, until the body returns to dust,the rings seize in the bores, as do the valve-stems, and the valve-springs fade away.
But as to the turbo car, when the fun has run it's course, you pull off the turbo kit, and sell it to someone here on FABO.Then return the car to stock, and sell it; or,continue to drive it 4 seasons until there is nothing left to drive.
If the car doesn't ET that well, heck it's boosted; crank it up till it's too fast for you. If it blows up, hey a replacement used engine is about $200 bucks, and next weekend you are back in business!
Ok,anyway, that's my dream.
I already have the engine(s) lined up.
Sooooooooo,where should you start?
I say, how deep are your pockets and what are you hoping to to achieve?

Now I read that you want to qtr mile it,
And I did not see any reference to street driving.
But I did see such things as; eventually,and morph, and long distance cruises, and good street manners,etc.
A 12 second NA-car is or can be a real nice streeter. And once you are into it, the bug may bite harder. When this happens you may be tempted to throw a lot of money at it to go just a little bit faster. Then the thought comes to you that you've got all this money tied up in a car that accumulates mileage at an microscopically tiny rate. So to get some value out of your dough, you may decide to run it more as a streeter. A 12 second streeter is very much fun.
I think a turbo is a viable alternative for you. Easy 400hp. Easy torque monster.With 3.23s easy on gas. Cruising at 2500=65 is nice. Not having a 4000TC is nicer. An engine that doesn't overheat,idles like a stocker, has factory manners,etc; these are all good too.
Trying to get a 74 Duster into the 12s with a stock LC long-block and bolt-ons,is gonna be an exercise in futility.You are gonna need a power-adder.

No, it is a pump gas small block in my D50. It is a Indy headed stroked 340 (394ci). 2950lbs. All motor. It has run a best of 6.21 @ 110, 1.33 60 ft. so far.
 
Overdrive will definitely be in my future. For now, I'll likely swap between the 4.10 and 3.23 centersections I have for race days and longer distance cruises.


I did this years ago in my 71 challenger, to make it easier on your self, add some extra length to the rear brake lines, and put a drain plug in the rear end.
This will allow you to drain the fluid easy, and pull the axles out far enough without having to bleed the brakes.
I could change a rear gears in that car on jack stands in under 30 minutes using hand tools. But I was also alot younger.
 
Definitely turbo efi is on my future list. But I need to make it work around my AC . I love the compound turbo idea too. But for now I need to optimize my current system and see where it takes me. I appreciate all the ideas and suggestions.

Cley
 
Ok,
Just in case you missed it, just to squeak into the 12s with SuperStock type suspension and an auto trans,requires a P/W of .085.

What that means is; if your stock engine makes 245hp it's factory fresh rating, your raceweight will need to be 245/.085=2882 pounds, And raceweight is total weight at the start-line.
If the raceweight is more like 3650, then the power will need to be 3650x.085=310hp. Remember this is with SuperStock type suspension, which includes optimum gearing and quick 60ft.
But if you can't get the 60ft down, or you are running street gears, or you just can't make it hook, then the .085 no longer applies.
If your car is a half second slow ET for it's mph,Then you are traction/suspension deficient, and will need to fix that, or add more power. You may end up needing a P/W of .095 which is; 3650x.095=347 hp; just to squeak into the 12s. But if you are a bit on the mature side like me, and your car scales at 3800 on the line, well now you will be looking for 3800x.095=361hp
It should be fairly obvious that your stock 360 long block is not going to put out 347 to 361 hp with bolt-ons,and still be streetable,unless some form of power-adder is installed.
Just in case you missed it.
 
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I didn't miss it. You provided lots of great info. I think the compound turbo idea is great. I will however start with what I have and work from there. The journey to get to the 12s won't happen right away. But I know I will enjoy it thoroughly.

Cley
 
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