Craigslist 4 Speed - Something doesn't jive?

-
I think the tail housings are different on the GM.
The diagram I posted previously compares the A Body and the E Body mount locations. The older B did not have the rear E location.
From BBD........."A/F-body 4 speeds have only one shifter pad. The 1964-1969 B/C-body A-833s place the shifter pad ahead of the cross member mount flange, and the 1970-74 B/E-body long tail housing four speed has two shifter pads, one ahead of the cross member mount flange (for B-bodies), and one behind the cross member mount flange at the very end of the longer B/E tailshaft housing (this position is used in E-bodies)."

Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists
 
All the Mopar boxes for GMs that I have seen were overdrives.
To use the 3.09, you have to take all the guts. The 1x23 input from a Mopar box may or may not sub onto that cluster.I do not recall the tooth count in the GM box. I suspect it would. I also do not recall if the Mopar retainer will bolt in place of the GM.
IIRC no other input gear, that is to say; only an input gear from a 3.09o/d box will fit on that o/d cluster, and only if it has the same tooth count(there are at least two).
So you might be stuck with box that has a too-short 10 spl input.
I guess you could buy an adapter bell and mount that GM onto the back of your SBM, but it would still have the long tail.This will not allow the use of the factory floor hole, without some custom fabrication, if indeed it can be done. Most want the stick to drop down in the factory hole.
The Mopar tail and output shaft can be swapped onto the GM box,giving you the proper shifter pad.But not just any short m/s; there are 3, and only a m/s from an o/d fits into a m/s third gear, the o/d gear. There are two; a 727 sized one and a 904 sized one.
I have not seen a 3.09/direct 4th for a GM application. But that gearset is a set unto itself. Only the m/s low will sub into any other Mopar non-hemi,box.
That is going from memory, back to the late 70s when I was an employee in a rebuild shop. The m/s low is an across-the-board swap.
If you don't already know; there are 4 Mopar gear-sets with Direct 4th output and two overdrives.
1) the Hemi stuff which will not interchange with anything else.
2) most common wide-ratio set with a 2.66 low
3) the 1970 T/A close-ratio set with a 2.47 low
4) the early-A,273 deep-low set with a 3.09 low
5) the common A/F .73 overdrive with 3.09 low
6)........a swapmeet .71 overdrive with 3.09low;I ran across and purchased for parts to swap into my blowed-up .73 box and nothing fit!
7) the GM box AFAIK is the same as #5

There may be more, these are just the ones I have actually laid my greasy hands on. I have owned at least one of every example, except the hemi-box.

The 3.09/Direct 4th is IMO a great set for a streeter with a cam up to about 250@050. It allows you to run a decent rear in the range of 3.23 to 3.73. The 1-2 split is 62% so just about anything will pull that. And second gear (1.91) is good to 65 or more mph with any of those ratios.
3.91s makes the starter-gear a bit deep at 12.08, but it does max out the Rs nicely at the top of second,at about 6000, for a 230* cam; so a traction aider will minimize your zero to 60 times.Otherwise expect monster tire-spin.
 
Last edited:
i believe that the c/l one is the small output like 904 , 318 two bbl trans or /6 .
 
pomonamissel said:
i believe that the c/l one is the small output like 904 , 318 two bbl trans or /6 .
Click to expand...
I have one of those, but it's too buried right now to eyeball, I was thinking the same. I think mine is from a '66, by what I was told, it was an early A so I
guess that leaves two years for the slip-yoke type. I wasn't aware they made them as late as '72 tho'. So much crust on those splines lol!
 
that trans was used up to they made it into the od trans , that was @75 right ? just the output shaft and tail stock housing n seal . so it can be changed to the larger spline output and housing . then its good to go . well with the resto on the rest . how knows it could be a jewel on the inside , lol .
 
aj/forms , what do you thing it got 247 or 266 first or did the /6 carry over the 309 ?
 
pomonamissel said:
aj/forms , what do you thing it got 247 or 266 first or did the /6 carry over the 309 ?
Click to expand...

You lost me!
The 2.47 was a one year deal IIRC, possibly 2, and it came only in the small-block T/As and Cudas. in 70/71 I think
The 3.09/ direct only came in the early 273 HO cars, AFAIK
Everything else got the 2.66 low.
Unless it was an overdrive; all of those come with a 3.09low.
The 2.47 is a great street set-up.But to get off the line,you have to run some pretty mean rear gears, like 4.30 or more. With 4.30s the starter gear is just 10.62. And honestly the splits are only 2% to $ 4% closer which is about 200/300 rpm. So that starter gear sacrifice to a streeter is unacceptable.
I really like my 3.09/direct box. I get a starter gear of 10.97 with just 3.55s, and 9.98 with 3.23s.Either works for me..
The 2.66 likes 3.91s to get 10.40.
The 10 to 11 range is good for any SBM with modest low-rpm torque, like a 360 with a 230* cam, a 340 with a 220* cam or a 318 with a 210* cam . Of course crappy compression wants closer to the high side and strong compression can dip a little under. By 9/1 things are getting slow. 8.5/1 is an unhappy place.8/1 is downright ugly. At the other end 12/1 is dragrace with a stout engine 13/1 for a small engine and 14 is ridiculously hi, suitable only for low-powered engines. I once tried 15/1 with my 367 which was a total failure, but I had to know.

You can figure out the low-gear ratio from the speed,rpm,and tire roll-out of an installed unit. Or if on the bench, by the number of turns of the input shaft compared to exactly one turn of the output shaft. In all cases extreme accuracy is required to see the difference between the 2.66 and the 2.47.
Of course a tooth count will be the most accurate.
 
Last edited:
lost but found the trail anyway . thought all the early a bodies flanged tranny's were 309 . and that 247 is a rare gear set up . so just the t/a's n aar's . got a tranny from a 70 r/t 340 challenger thought the guy said it was the t/a trans . have to check it . i got tired of tripping over them laying on the floor so i built this rack , it holds a dozen , lol . got some on the floor , lol .
DSC03443.JPG
 
Good thing it still has the "****" linkage.

Overpriced by at least a factor of 2
 
pomonamissel said:
lost but found the trail anyway . thought all the early a bodies flanged tranny's were 309 . and that 247 is a rare gear set up . so just the t/a's n aar's . got a tranny from a 70 r/t 340 challenger thought the guy said it was the t/a trans . have to check it . i got tired of tripping over them laying on the floor so i built this rack , it holds a dozen , lol . got some on the floor , lol . View attachment 1715030564
Click to expand...

I got a rearend rack like that,lol
Yes I agree, I think the flanged ones were all 3.09s

Almost time for another parts shed?
 
still need to build that , still tripp'n on them , lol . but i did put the trans rack on wheels .
 
i just don't have a lite one here . there in in this car mild 340 in front of it w/10 1/2 diaphram style hat and a punchpress matl's on the clutch disc .

DSC08615.JPG


DSC00370.JPG
 
Small world. I bought this trans...for $350. Changed input/output seals yesterday, of course the bearing retainer has a crack in it.
 
awohlers said:
Small world. I bought this trans...for $350. Changed input/output seals yesterday, of course the bearing retainer has a crack in it.
Click to expand...

Was it 18 spline or 23 ?

Was it 72 a-body tail to tip?

Small output shaft?
 
Last edited:
I didn't count the splines yet, but it looks like 23. I ran the numbers stamped on it and comes back to 72 and based on the diagrams is an A body. Any way I can tell for sure? I am already nervous I may have been ripped off.
 
awohlers said:
I didn't count the splines yet, but it looks like 23. I ran the numbers stamped on it and comes back to 72 and based on the diagrams is an A body. Any way I can tell for sure? I am already nervous I may have been ripped off.
Click to expand...

Show some pics of the input shaft and casting number of the tail housing.

It's an a-body trans. If that is what you were looking for you got it.

You can open it up and count the markings on the gears to verify the ratios being wide (2.66 1st) or close (2.44 1st).

ID Guide is on the Brewer trans website.

Issue would be from the inside gears Being rusty or engaging teeth being toasted (worn/chipped flat). Did you open it up and inspect?

Did the seller say the insides looked good?
 
Last edited:
autoxcuda said:
Show some pics of the input shaft and casting number of the tail housing.

It's an a-body trans. If that is what you were looking for you got it.

You can open it up and count the markings on the gears to verify the ratios being wide (2.66 1st) or close (2.44 1st).

ID Guide is on the Brewer trans website.

Issue would be from the inside gears Being rusty or engaging teeth being toasted. Did you open it up and inspect? Did the seller say the insides looked good?
Click to expand...

Close ratio will have 3 grooves

Wide ratio will have no grooves

Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists
 
The seller said the insides looked good and I took the input shaft off and the bearings and shaft itself look to be in good shape.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top