Questions from a newbie...

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slant K to small block... look up Schumcker industires conversion engine brackets... no need to change the K, if so just get a used one. get one with discs already there or at least 10 inch drums..... many better vendors out there than Classic...... IMO
 
I agree about the small block. There is a shop here in TX that does 360 stroked to 408 builds, so I'm going with that route. In all honesty, I'd be over the moon ecstatic if I could get all of the conversion parts for $1500. I'm guessing that doesn't include the trans itself? I'm also considering just doing a 727 swap and keeping it A/T. Can I use my /6 k frame? I was thinking it would need to be upgraded to handle the V8. Disk brakes are on the list, for sure.

This was answered in posts 10, 17,18,21
While you can use your/6K with the Schumacher brackets; I just want to re-iterate that some members have had trouble fitting over-the-steering headers with those.And you most definitely will want that type of header. Barbee has already mentioned that he has a spare factory K to sell. If you are looking to save money, the factory K is sufficient for your application. If your bank account is fat, then yes,there are other options.
In any case,If you use a 68 to 72 K any K, then you will need to strap that 408 down.You can use the Schumacher anchor, get some solid mounts(or at least the driver's side), or make your own. The 73 and later K is a spool mount and will also fit in there. You can buy some safety mounts to fit that combo, negating the strap. I highly recommend the 73ups.

>You might consider buying a 73 up V8 donor car.
It will get you almost everything you need; as to the K, the suspension,and steering, and the disc-brake system.
If it comes with an 8.25 rear end, and you promise not to put slicks on your car, the 8.25 will be fine on the street. They often come with 3.21s, but rarely with an LSD.
If it is an A/C car, additionally you will get you a bigger rad,the pulleys, and the bigger T-bars.(.892s IIRC)
If it has a hitch on it, it may have upgraded rear springs.
If it's a SBM DartSport stick A/C car, you may get lucky and have everything you need for a full conversion. This is the one I would try to find.Don't be sad if the tranny is gone, they are available separately.
 
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This was answered in posts 10, 17,18,21
While you can use your/6K with the Schumacher brackets; I just want to re-iterate that some members have had trouble fitting over-the-steering headers with those.And you most definitely will want that type of header. Barbee has already mentioned that he has a spare factory K to sell. If you are looking to save money, the factory K is sufficient for your application. If your bank account is fat, then yes,there are other options.
In any case,If you use a 68 to 72 K any K, then you will need to strap that 408 down.You can use the Schumacher anchor, get some solid mounts(or at least the driver's side), or make your own. The 73 and later K is a spool mount and will also fit in there. You can buy some safety mounts to fit that combo, negating the strap. I highly recommend the 73ups.

>You might consider buying a 73 up V8 donor car.
It will get you almost everything you need; as to the K, the suspension,and steering, and the disc-brake system.
If it comes with an 8.25 rear end, and you promise not to put slicks on your car, the 8.25 will be fine on the street. They often come with 3.21s, but rarely with an LSD.
If it is an A/C car, additionally you will get you a bigger rad,the pulleys, and the bigger T-bars.(.892s IIRC)
If it has a hitch on it, it may have upgraded rear springs.
If it's a SBM DartSport stick A/C car, you may get lucky and have everything you need for a full conversion. This is the one I would try to find.Don't be sad if the tranny is gone, they are available separately.

I've decided to have the 904 rebuilt to beef it up a bit and keep the A/T mated to the 408 stroker. I'm considering the Gear Vendors set up that allows gear splitting and OD. Any idea if anyone has experience with this product?

Also, I'm going to order the QA1 K frame and handling package. I'll replace the steering box with the Borgeson unit and all steering/suspension parts. Not doing rack and pinion steering. Upgrade to disk brakes for safety. I know it's a bit of overkill, but my car SELLING days are over. I'm keeping this one for a long time and I don't want to have to pull it apart again. Schumacher offers Tri-Y headers for this application and they assure me that there are no clearance issues. Again, I wonder if anyone here has any experience with this product?

I've found some reasonable complete rear end builds, that I feel is a good deal, with disk brakes and sure grip 3.55 gears. So, bolt that in and she's ready to go. I'll finish paint and interior after that.

I figured I'd be $12K-$15K to finish it completely, and it looks like it'll be in that ball park. Before anyone freaks out about spending that much, think about this... Taking a year or so to finish the car is reasonable and that is $1000 a month towards the car. That's not crazy. Plus, if I have the car for 20 years I'm looking at averaging $600-$750 per year in overall enjoyment cost.

Maybe I'm insane, I don't know...
 
You can not use the /6 904 behind a small block. The case will not bolt up. The 727 is the long term solution, it all depends what you can find.
 
You can not use the /6 904 behind a small block. The case will not bolt up. The 727 is the long term solution, it all depends what you can find.
OK, good to know. There are a couple of 727 trans in my area for sale. Any modification needed to swap it for the 904? Or is there an adapter for the 904? THX
 
OK, good to know. There are a couple of 727 trans in my area for sale. Any modification needed to swap it for the 904? Or is there an adapter for the 904? THX
Actually, there's a Cummins 2wd 727 very close to me. I didn't know they did a 2wd, probably only good for trucks though.
 
Actually, there's a Cummins 2wd 727 very close to me. I didn't know they did a 2wd, probably only good for trucks though.
Also, I saw a 727 listed as a 71 & up. Is there a certain bellhousing pattern i need to look for? The engine will be a 360 Magnum block. Thx again
 
comments inside quote
I've decided to have the 904 rebuilt to beef it up a bit and keep the A/T mated to the 408 stroker.
I'm considering the Gear Vendors set up that allows gear splitting and OD. Any idea if anyone has experience with this product?I have had one since about 2004.I would highly recommend this unit as an overdrive unit. But not as a splitter, under any condition except at or near WOT.
There are several reasons for this;
1) you are building a 408:the GVOD may benefit it on the track,but the 408 will gain nothing on the street from it.And the reason is that the 408 will be traction handicapped on the street.It will spin the tires all the way thru first and probably all the way thru second as well.I would just put 3.23s in her and call it done.
2) Splitting with the GV requires defeating its computer, otherwise you can't even time the event with a stopwatch.Running it on battery voltage, will make it shift like lightning, when the unit has pressure. It has an internal pump running off the driveshaft. It needs driveshaft RPM to build pressure. It cannot build proper shift pressure in first gear with 3.55s. It builds real good pressure with 4.88s. The guys at GV were less than helpful when I asked these questions. I had to learn it on my own. It did work also with 4.30s. I did try it with 3.91s, but I cannot remember the results today. It does actually work with 3.55s under full power at the top of first gear, or about 48mph. This will be near 5500rpm for you, 6500 for me. But you cannot count on it shifting when you hit the button. With 3.55s there is always a slight delay in first gear.
3) If you defeat the computer, you better figure out a way to absolutely prevent it from engaging in reverse. This will instantly ruin it, and a rebuild is 50% of new no matter what is wrong with it. This is a very expensive mistake to make, for a Canadian.
For you,a better idea is a 4 speed automatic, since you need a tranny anyway.


Also, I'm going to order the QA1 K frame and handling package. I'll replace the steering box with the Borgeson unit and all steering/suspension parts. Not doing rack and pinion steering. Upgrade to disk brakes for safety. I know it's a bit of overkill, but my car SELLING days are over. I'm keeping this one for a long time and I don't want to have to pull it apart again. Schumacher offers Tri-Y headers for this application and they assure me that there are no clearance issues. Again, I wonder if anyone here has any experience with this product?

I've found some reasonable complete rear end builds, that I feel is a good deal, with disk brakes and sure grip 3.55 gears. So, bolt that in and she's ready to go. I'll finish paint and interior after that.

I figured I'd be $12K-$15K to finish it completely, and it looks like it'll be in that ball park. Before anyone freaks out about spending that much, think about this... Taking a year or so to finish the car is reasonable and that is $1000 a month towards the car. That's not crazy.
Plus, if I have the car for 20 years I'm looking at averaging $600-$750 per year in overall enjoyment cost.My thinking was the same, but the body died early.She was done at the 14 year mark.

Maybe I'm insane, I don't know...You're fine, I spent near double that
I recommend 3.23s, you can hit 60@6200 with those;65@6700; with 27s and 5% slip.
With 3.55s you may have to shift, cuz 60=6800
 
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If I go with a 727, do I need to modify my drive shaft from the current 904, or is it the same length? Are the yokes interchangeable?
 
You will probably want the Chevy tranny, the 700R4. This swap has been done several times and there are adapters for to do this. Get this done and the rear end installed, then a custom driveshaft to connect them.
The Dakota tranny can be used too.
With either of these, the 3.55s will be too conservative. 3.91s will be almost the minimum.It depends on your engine build.
But I gotta remind you;you said
I'm not a red light to red light drag racer, so I'm looking at 3.23 or 3.55 gears to keep it streetable.
With 3.23s you won't need an overdrive; 65=2600 with zero slip.
But I then gotta ask, why the 408? I mean that is a competition buster and a tire-fryer.Why build a 408 just to drive it on the primaries it's whole life?

If you skipped the stroker kit, and put the money toward a GVod, You could go to a much smaller engine, and have IMO just as much fun on the street, while reaping the benefits of burning cheap gas and cruising 65=2200. If you swapped to a stick, I already worked out the kinks of that swap for you. Now you can make use of the GV as a splitter.
>Here's how the automatic ratios do while splitting;
the ratios are 2.45-1.91-1.45-1.13-1.00-.78od, Gv in red,
the splits are.... .78.....76....78.....88.....78
This is suitable for the track, if you trap in 2nd over. This will probably take 3.91s, to trap 112@6455. The starter gear would be 9.58,a little lazy. 65 would be 2460@zero slip.You can hit 60 in first-over at about 5850.
> here's how it works with the A833 deep low;
The ratios are 3.09-2.41-1.91-1.30-1.39-1.09-1.00-.78od., GV in red
the splits are.......78.....79....78....*.....78......92.....78 ....... *=not used
This too is suitable for the track, now with 4.10s, but the shifting will be; 3.09-2.41-1.91-1.39-1.09. 112mph will be 6220. The starter gear is 12.67.and 65=2582. You can hit 60@6122 at the top of second using three ratios! Man that is putting down average horsepower.

>For a guy who is not interested in tracking his car, three ratios to 60mph with a 12.67 starter gear will be incredibly quick, even with a stout teener.
See, the teener is not gonna spin all the way to 60, like the 408. If it spins all the way thru first,this will be 38mph. But I think it will not spin that far with 295s. And I think,there is yet another option.
> A regular 5.9er.This engine makes a lot of torque. For a streeter that 12.67 starter is too deep, and the cruise rpm of 2582 is too high. So, a good compromise is 3.55s. With these,and still the GVOD, 65=2240. The starter gear is 10.97. 60 mph is a 2 gear romp ending at 6380 in first over. 32mph is 4360rpm in first gear/2700 in second;The downshift (4360) is just over peak torque, with most street cams.
> So, now, having the tranny figured out, it is no big thing to build a smaller engine to fit this business. I tell you for sure that 408 is gonna make well over 500 ft lbs of torque, which means you can stomp on it almost anywhere under 60 mph on street tires and spin. Do you need that? It will make driving aggressively, tricky on street-tires, on the street.
> I have a 360 that will spin 295s at 50mph in second(3.55x1.91) gear @4200rpm. There is nothing special about this engine. Do you need that?
> I'm guessing not, so again;why the 408.
> to hit those above targets, all you need is a small-cam 360/5.9er. Somewhere just over 380hp Ima thinking.

> In this same way, a combo could be worked out to use an automatic.
A smaller engine would allow a 904HD tranny, read cheap, as compared to what you will have to spend on a 408-capable tranny. And with a deep low, a smaller TC can be used. And all the support works can be lighter duty. Even the rear end could be an 8.25 instead of an 8.75. And the smaller engine might allow for smaller tires.
> On the street, it doesn't take nearly as much engine as one might think, to have a lot of fun. It's all in the combo.
> But if the 408 is what you have your heart set on,return,back to the top.
 
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Argh, AJ!!! You give me too many ideas, I literally can't decide.

So, this morning I see a '72 Duster with 3 speed manual near me. The guy has a 4 speed to go in the deal too. I'm assuming the pedal set up and other components would work with the 4 speed, correct? Obviously, new rods/linkage would be required. Do you know of any problems going from the 3 speed to 4 speed?
 
i agree w ith A/JFormS even if he is a a Canute! ha..... he does think out the process....
my opinion is to why we see so many "overbuilt combos,... is people that have never lived in the day where these cars were new or common?, how much power do ya really need for your intended use????? ....ego??,..... people that have never had the idea of building a from car what is available at the boneyard?
chevy trans in this Mopar? maybe just it was a fleeting thought.
 
Comments inside the quote
Argh, AJ!!! You give me too many ideas, I literally can't decide.See, I knew you mighta jumped the gun!Take your time;think it thru. From what you have been saying, it is easy to see that you are still formulating a plan. You can do it your way, by just throwing money out there,and have the makings of a real nice auto-crosser.It will have to burn 91 gas, idle a bit lopey,be scary fast in first gear, and then it's over, cuz you are speeding. It will need special tuning skills,and may not like cold mornings. It may even be prone to overheating,especially in traffic.
>You can put that fancy front end under there. But to do what with? cruise it around town? That's about 3 to 5 years gas money!
>How old are you? Married?Got kids?I'm assuming this is a just-for-fun car, and that you already have a DD.How old will you be in 10 years or twenty. Will you have teenagers turning 16 soon? Have you ever driven a 450/500hp car with 563 ftlbs of torque? Do you know how incredibly fast things can go wrong with something like that? Who will take care of your family, while you are recovering in hospital? assuming you live thru it.
>Stick cars are fun when the shifters work. Are you prepared to reset the freeplay once in a while? To rebuilt the shifter when it piles full of gravel? Reset the neutral gate when the nuts come loose. Replace the brass or the clutch,when they wear out?; they don't last forever.
> Automatics, by contrast are a set it and forget it kindof deal. Yeah you only have three gears. But you only need 3. You need 1 to go Zero to 60,and one to cruise with,and one to use as a filler in between.See?
Race cars with little engines or big trapspeeds need more gears, a streeter does not.
This is a major project;take some time to study it out.

So, this morning I see, a '72 Duster with 3 speed manual near me.V8 car? with disc brakes?and an 8.75? That would be a really nice find.The guy has a 4 speed to go in the deal too. Do not pay much extra for an od box, they can be had at swap meets for 50 to 150 Canadian,lol. I'm assuming the pedal set up and other components would work with the 4 speed, correct? Yes. Obviously, new rods/linkage would be required. Unless he has a complete shifter,too! Do not be tempted to buy anything but a street shifter with an H pattern Do you know of any problems going from the 3 speed to 4 speed? Disposing of the little boat anchor,lol. Actually this is likely to be an A-230, a much better piece than the A903. The A230 is actually worth some money to somebody.

At the risk of sounding like a dick, here is a reprint of post #17

Come out of the fog;Here's your recipe;
For a dual purpose machine that is more than occasionally going to hit the hiway;
5.9 roller, cleaned up heads,223/230MAXIMUM cam(050s), 8.6 Dcr,Oiling mods to live at 6800, springs to go there,HO mechanical fuel pump with 3/8 supply line, electronic ignition upgrades to support the occasional stomp to 6800.
HD-904 with semi-auto kit and 2800TC, Narrowed 8.75 with tapered bearings and 3.23s and LSD.
From a73 up V-8 A-body;Front K-member, UCAs, Disc fronts and 10x2" rear brakes, sway-bar.
HD rear springs;Relocated with the offset perches. 1.03 T-bars,and HD shocks all around,
Minimum tire sizes of 235fronts/275rears. 295s will be better.
Optional P/S,P/B,tilt steering column,frame connectors,

3.23s?! Yes 3.23s will get you 60mph@6200rpm, in first, with 5% slip, a one gear run
3.55s will get you 60@6800 in first.Quite a bit out of the cams happy place.
3.73s will be 7150, just doable with the oiling mods, but you are waaaay off the peak power,so not recommended.


If you do not care about hiway rpm,nor about ET,or Trapspeed; then consider a two-gear run to 65/70mph, and choose a smaller cam, cuz your average power during the run will be higher, and a shorter TC, cuz you are gonna have plenty of starter gear.With this combo you will not have to do the oiling mods, just try to keep the Rs down to 1000rpm over the cams peak,say below 6200. And you can run this on a 5/16 fuel line, if your fuel-volume-test supports your horsepower level.
I suggest 4.30s minimum, and the A999. These will get you 60@5200 in second gear.This will leave you some headroom, to redline. The starter gear is 11.78 so a stockish 2200 TC will be fine. You only need a little cam now, say between 215 and 223.This combo will make tons of torque down low, try to keep the smile off your face; people will think there's something wrong with you.You will need a traction aider. Below 60 mph the engine will not have to buck much wind, so all the power can be used to propel the vehicle, instead of using some or a lot of it to overcome wind resistance.
Use a spreadbore carb and any old manifold (like the 71 TQ stuff).I would order a small custom cam. maybe on a 108LSA; counter-intuitive I know but;We need to shed some low-speed torque, and we need some power up top, cuz the Rs are gonna be down. This cam will run well with long-tube headers. I suggest as much lift as the heads can support and the grinder is willing to supply.

Honestly,every morning,before you hit the key, take a few breaths,mellow out. Repeat 7 times; I will not smile, I will not smile, I will not smile,I will not smile, I will not smile, I will not smile, I will not smile.
I guarantee you can't make it through first gear without smiling.
The only way to cure that, is with a smaller engine. Perhaps a 273.
The downside of course is the 3500@65 cruise rpm. I solved that with a GVOD.The Rs will drop to 2700ish.

Now to add, for a 4 speed; You might consider the od box for use with 4.10s to 3.91s, with that smaller engine. Remember,on the street, you only need a 3plus1.
Do not think to use this box with the 408;the starter gear will be way to big, and by the time you get the starter gear right, then the od gear will be way too small. For example; The 408 will be happy with a 3.23, to perhaps a 3.55. If you put more gear than this behind her, you would have to shift it before 60mph.The od box will turn these final drives into 2.36,and 2.59. These will turn the cruise rpm at 65mph, into about 1840 and 2022. To cruise this low, the cam is gonna have to be pretty small, and it would work best with a small TC too. Almost nobody would build a combo like that. Typically we cruise at 2400ish, requiring a 2.94 final drive. With the od box, this is a 4.10 rear gear. That would make the starter gear 12.67, which would make a slanty very happy, a teener some happy, a 360 says WTH?, and the 408 blows the tires off and has to shift less than 100 ft out of the gate! Yeah so that 408 would need special consideration to run that Mopar od box. I mean you could run it,no problem, but there is no way to optimize such a combo, unless maybe it was in a tow-truck application.

So by now you might be getting the idea that the engine and tranny need to be well matched. And you would be right. Every tranny wants an optimized engine to get the best out of the combo. If your engine build does not stray very far from the stock specs,then the stock tranny will work. How well they work together,is a different matter.
If your application calls for a wide ratio tranny, then a 292/108 cam is not gonna make a happy combo. That cam wants a very close ratio tranny.
If your tranny has closely spaced gears and lots of them, then you can use a lot smaller engine with a very narrow rpm band.
> long story short, you need to focus your tranny needs now before you have built the wrong engine for it. I did that, and it was a very costly experiment.
The regular automatics are a wide 1-2 ratio, and a slightly less wide 2-3.
The low first gear automatics are an even wider 1-2, with an even wider 2-3 ratio.
The standard 4 speed has 3 closely, evenly, spaced splits.
The deep low, has a wide 1-2 split, and the others are same as the standard box.
The od box has ridiculously wide spaced 1-2, and a slightly less ridiculously wide 2-3 split, with a too-close od.
The TA tranny has closely spaced ratios, that preclude it's use for anything but roadracing, cuz it requires a huge rear gear to be fun on the street;like 4.56s or 4.30s, to get a decent starter gear.
From the factory, those are your choices.
>So with a slanty you have more or less 2 ratio choices. A teener, depending on the power band, like the 360, can use any except the T/A which is a special case. The more power you wring outta these little engines, the more focused your tranny choice needs to be. With BB power, we begin to see the choices narrow up again.
I would never again use the od box behind an HO 360. I would use it behind a low output hi-torque engine SBM, sure.
I would not use the wide ratio autos behind any HO SBM.
I gotta stop; this post is getting ridiculously long.
 
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You aren't a dick at all, you have some very good points and sound arguments.

Allow me to shed some light on a few things...

In all honesty, I really am taking my time with this. Everything I'm doing now is just research and formulating the plan. It'll probably change daily until the right set up comes together and the light bulb goes off. I've kinda given myself a year or so to complete the car, and I've had it for 3 weeks. I'm truly not an impulsive person, and I'm actually quite frugal most of the time. Whiskey, guitars, and hot rods are the only things that I occasionally spend too much on.

Listen, I get that a lot of guys on here will read about some of the things that I want to do and assume that I'm an idiot that doesn't pull wrenches, with more money than sense. But here's the thing, I'm 41 years old, been driving old cars since I was 12 (grew up on an acreage about 20 miles outside of the city), and am now in the position to build myself a fairly sweet ride. Luckily, I'm no longer scrounging together beer cans to take back to the bottle depot for gas money (I'm originally from Calgary, married to a Dallas girl, living in Houston now). When I was 20, it was every weekend in a junkyard trying to find parts for the Comet, Galaxie, Impala, and Mustang that have all come and gone since then. I've pieced together cars using whatever parts I could find and "making it work" just due to the fact that there was no other option. My father and I rebuild his '70 Challenger and '56 Ford Panel Van, and he has taught me that decisions made solely on keeping the budget low can be regretful in the long run.

My wife recently had our first child, boy, 8 weeks old. So, part of this is to build something that'll last so he can enjoy growing up with it. My '70 Firebird 455 dyno'd at 498HP/525ft lbs torque, so I've got some experience with a strong engine. I drive these cars on weekends only, putting gas in once a month, so 91 octane doesn't bother me... and cold mornings for me mean 50 degrees (10C).

That being said, my intention for replacing the k frame is just to add longevity and create some engine room. I'm going to replace the control arms, tie rods, pitman, idler, bushings, strut rods, and torsion bars anyways so at that point why not dig out another $500 for a tubular k frame? In my mind, we're talking about a 47 year old piece of metal that's been treated God knows how. I know they are strong and things were built way better back then, but the tolerances (or lack thereof) on k frames has been the stuff of legend for a long time.

I'm not against the auto trans, it would just be a treat to own a 4 speed Mopar! And yeah, the sheer cost of the conversion might just rule it out.

Plus, I picked up a '64 Galaxie 500 XL, 390/4 speed car last week so now I'm splitting dollars on two builds. But, that's probably a bit further down the road.

Anyway, I do appreciate your input and I'm pretty hard to offend. Just don't go telling me how great the Jets are...
 
What are Jets? lol

Ok thanks for the reality check.
41 is a long time ago for me. I still had a lot of energy and ambition back then. That was 1994.My young son was 10.I began my project at about that time, hoping to be finished in 98, the 30Th anniversary of the 68 Barracuda. It was not ready for the road until just before snow,the following year;1999. I was 46.I probably had 3 or 4 years into the building of it. I bought it as a 10 year old car in 1978.So I was about your age when I started the project.
My son took it to his grad party. He followed all the rules except he kindof got into the gray area of rule number 4.

The rules since he got his license had been ;
1)You break it, you fix it
2)You buy your own gas
3)You have it home when you say it will be home, or you phone me; and I don't care if you call in the middle of the night.
4)There will be no no smoking in my car.
5) I don't care how you drive it, you cannot possibly torture it any worse than I do.

It came home smelling like an ashtray.
We made a new rule;
#6) No person gets into the car who smells like cigarettes.And that was the end of it.
In the 4 years he drove it; he never broke it, and it was always home on time. And it never smelled like ashtray again.

Congrats on your baby boy!! I pray he grows up to be,at least as good as mine,lol, who will be 33 this fall.
 
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The 727 is longer so your driveshaft would need to be shorter. As far as the engine, why go to the expense of a stroker motor? Just go big block all you need are A Body headers. No special parts required, good machining and a cam kit, done.
 
i too am old and woreout like just mentiond, but I do really prefer to bang gears, even in a slant! ha/ let me add this to your thoughts, a four speed is NOT that expensive, IF you can afford and willing, to build this, all the rest of it all, including dumping the K member for th coilover set up??! there are other gear vendors, like Passion for instance, but for OEM stuff rebuilt and all the small parts looks up Wayne Brewer, ie Brewers Performance out in Ohio.
make it easier and pickup a solid project car that already has the pedals, hump, bar frame bracket, etc, even a slant car.
4 speed trans A body / SB bell? $350-450 , rebuilt one maybe $1100 id guess.
me, I much rather shift gears!
 
So, you wanna bang gears.And you want the 408.
I can help you with that.
The 408 will not need the deep-low tranny, and the od box is out too.
Or is it?
I think I can make this od box work for your application, but you are gonna have to bear with me.
The od box has ratios of 3.09-1.67-1.00-.73--(You can buy these for $50 to $150, and the first three ratios are every bit as strong as the regular box.) The split percents are 54-60-73. This means that at whatever RPM you outshift at, the RPMs will drop by those percents. So for me, outshifting at 6800, the Rs drop to 3672 and 4080. So my powerband requirement,to use this tranny is 3128rpm and 2720rpm. That's not gonna put a lot of average hp down. This is the slow way down the track. But I have a GVOD that I use to split those ratios. The new ratios are 3.09-2.41-1.67-1.30-1.00-.78-.57 GV in red. So, now my split percents are 78-69-78-77-78-73. Notice that the splits are now hovering around 78%. This makes my rpm drop from 6800 to just 5304, for a powerband requirement of 1496. If I put the rpm of peak power in the middle of this,I will put a huge amount of average power down during the run. In fact, on a engine with a small cam,the power might fall just 4% on either side of this. Say you had a stout 360 with a 223ish cam that made 380hp@ 5400 . You would probably shift this at 5900, to drop in at 4500, for a powerband requirement of just 1400. If the power falls from 380 to 365 at the shiftpoints, You are gonna put down an average HP of around 370 or more! That is the fast way down the track. You would be able to keep up with much more powerful engines that are stuck with the earlier splits.Maximum average hp wins races.
So what does this have to do with you?
Nothing
I just wanted you to understand a little about this transmission.
Now, let's apply it it to your 408.
We already know that this box is not a hi-rpm box cuz it drags the rpm waaaay down. But it does work very well on a low rpm engine with a lot of torque.Like a 408 could be.
So for your application, which will end at about 85mph for freeway cruizing. Lets say you were willing to put a small cam in that 408, to make a really insane amount of low-speed torque. And you were willing to observe a much lower than typical shift rpm. Let's fit that to this tranny.Lets say you picked a cam that power-peaked at 5200. This engine will want to be shifted around 6500 with this tranny, to drop into second at 3510, for a powerband requirement of 2990. The 408, at 3510 will have a huge amount of torque; nearly it's max torque number. With a powerpeak at 5200, the torque peak will come in at around 3700 to 3900. Ima guessing it will make torque in the range of 450 to 475 ftlbs with this little cam. So now this tranny is working in first gear just fine; for racing.How about as a streeter?
>Well I like to shift at 2800 with my combo. This is high enough to motor briskly, yet not so high as to be buzzy.And it doesn't sound like an old 5.0 that has to rev to nearly 4000 to find torque. So in this case your Rs will again drop to 54% or 1512rpm. Now here's where it gets interesting. Will your 408 have torque down at 1512? This is where reason #2 comes in that I picked a tiny cam that peaks at just 5200 rpm. I saw this coming, having been caught with my pants down the first time,lol.So,the answer is; YES,the 408 will have torque at 1512. Certainly more than a 318 with a 268 cam, or a 360 with a 292 cam,lol. ( I tried those combos, with this tranny;bad idea). OK so the 1-2 shift is nailed, how 'bout the 2-3 shift?
>Well out-shifting second at 2800, will drag the Rs down to 60% so 1680, nearly 400 rpm better than the 1-2 so; it will be alright too.
So having determined that it is possible to use this El-Cheapo $100. box, let's marry it to the chassis.
>The first thing to think about is that 5200 rpm power-peak. This can only be achieved with a fairly small cam. That cam will torque peak very early, and pull a lot of vacuum. This means it will pull a very small hiway gear with ease.
>What about the starter gear? Again,because this 408 has such a small cam, and accompanying big low-rpm torque, it will easily pull a small starter gear.
>This leaves us free to set the chassis up for the 2-1 down-shift. We can gear it in such a manner that on the 2-1 downshift, the engine will drop down into a happy place, and put the hurt on the tires,big-time. Since peak torque will come in at around 3700 to 3900, lets set 32mph at 3800rpm in first gear. No surprise, this is 3.23s with 28 inch tires (you will need the tallest fattest tires that you can find). 32mph will be 3832 with 28s and that 3.09 first gear,Shazzam!!
>Those 3.23s will make a starter gear of 9.98, which the 408 will love. 65mph will be 4200 in second, a little low perhaps. And 85 in od will be 2405. 65mph will be 2519 in direct,1839 in od;now yer talking fuel economy.
If you want to perk it up a bit, 3.73s would put the top of second at 65=4850, and 65 in overdrive will be 2123, and 85 will be 2776. All still very good numbers. The sacrifice here is the starter gear, which climbs to 11.53. You will need to baby it out a bit.
I like the 3.73s. The 2-1 downshift at 32 mph, will get you a smoking hot 4426rpm.So perhaps lower the downshift speed to 30mph@4150rpm
Now
This combo,with a powerpeak at 5200 will not get you any bragging rites as to hp and tq. It will not get you a big trapspeed or a low-ET.
What it will do, is make a fabulous hi-torque streeter, that for it's displacement, gets fabulous fuel mileage. Tune it up right, and that will be something to brag about. If you can make the tires stick, you could make a really strong zero to 60mph number, and with a little more gear,I think I can see a little air under your front tires.
So, now, about that 5200 power peak, what say you?
I'll tell you a little secret.
The 360, will for you,hit all these targets too. With just a little less tirespin,lol, and a little more mpgs. I know because I already built this combo.
And I have the recipe.
 
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So, you wanna bang gears.And you want the 408.
I can help you with that.
The 408 will not need the deep-low tranny, and the od box is out too.
Or is it?
I think I can make this od box work for your application, but you are gonna have to bear with me.
The od box has ratios of 3.09-1.67-1.00-.73--(You can buy these for $50 to $150, and the first three ratios are every bit as strong as the regular box.) The split percents are 54-60-73. This means that at whatever RPM you outshift at, the RPMs will drop by those percents. So for me, outshifting at 6800, the Rs drop to 3672 and 4080. So my powerband requirement,to use this tranny is 3128rpm and 2720rpm. That's not gonna put a lot of average hp down. This is the slow way down the track. But I have a GVOD that I use to split those ratios. The new ratios are 3.09-2.41-1.67-1.30-1.00-.78-.57 GV in red. So, now my split percents are 78-69-78-77-78-73. Notice that the splits are now hovering around 78%. This makes my rpm drop from 6800 to just 5304, for a powerband requirement of 1496. If I put the rpm of peak power in the middle of this,I will put a huge amount of average power down during the run. In fact, on a engine with a small cam,the power might fall just 4% on either side of this. Say you had a stout 360 with a 223ish cam that made 380hp@ 5400 . You would probably shift this at 5900, to drop in at 4500, for a powerband requirement of just 1400. If the power falls from 380 to 365 at the shiftpoints, You are gonna put down an average HP of around 370 or more! That is the fast way down the track. You would be able to keep up with much more powerful engines that are stuck with the earlier splits.Maximum average hp wins races.
So what does this have to do with you?
Nothing
I just wanted you to understand a little about this transmission.
Now, let's apply it it to your 408.
We already know that this box is not a hi-rpm box cuz it drags the rpm waaaay down. But it does work very well on a low rpm engine with a lot of torque.Like a 408 could be.
So for your application, which will end at about 85mph for freeway cruizing. Lets say you were willing to put a small cam in that 408, to make a really insane amount of low-speed torque. And you were willing to observe a much lower than typical shift rpm. Let's fit that to this tranny.Lets say you picked a cam that power-peaked at 5200. This engine will want to be shifted around 6500 with this tranny, to drop into second at 3510, for a powerband requirement of 2990. The 408, at 3510 will have a huge amount of torque; nearly it's max torque number. With a powerpeak at 5200, the torque peak will come in at around 3700 to 3900. Ima guessing it will make torque in the range of 450 to 475 ftlbs with this little cam. So now this tranny is working in first gear just fine; for racing.How about as a streeter?
>Well I like to shift at 2800 with my combo. This is high enough to motor briskly, yet not so high as to be buzzy.And it doesn't sound like an old 5.0 that has to rev to nearly 4000 to find torque. So in this case your Rs will again drop to 54% or 1512rpm. Now here's where it gets interesting. Will your 408 have torque down at 1512? This is where reason #2 comes in that I picked a tiny cam that peaks at just 5200 rpm. I saw this coming, having been caught with my pants down the first time,lol.So,the answer is; YES,the 408 will have torque at 1512. Certainly more than a 318 with a 268 cam, or a 360 with a 292 cam,lol. ( I tried those combos, with this tranny;bad idea). OK so the 1-2 shift is nailed, how 'bout the 2-3 shift?
>Well out-shifting second at 2800, better than the 1-2 so;will drag the Rs down to 60% so 1680, nearly 400 rpm it will be alright too.
So having determined that it is possible to use this El-Cheapo $100. box, let's marry it to the chassis.
>The first thing to think about is that 5200 rpm power-peak. This can only be achieved with a fairly small cam. That cam will torque peak very early, and pull a lot of vacuum. This means it will pull a very small hiway gear with ease.
>What about the starter gear? Again,because this 408 has such a small cam, and accompanying big low-rpm torque, it will easily pull a small starter gear.
>This leaves us free to set the chassis up for the 2-1 down-shift. We can gear it in such a manner that on the 2-1 downshift, the engine will drop down into a happy place, and put the hurt on the tires,big-time. Since peak torque will come in at around 3700 to 3900, lets set 32mph at 3800rpm in first gear. No surprise, this is 3.23s with 28 inch tires (you will need the tallest fattest tires that you can find). 32mph will be 3832 with 28s and that 3.09 first gear,Shazzam!!
>Those 3.23s will make a starter gear of 9.98, which the 408 will love. 65mph will be 4200 in second, a little low perhaps. And 85 in od will be 2405. 65mph will be 2519 in direct,1839 in od;now yer talking fuel economy.
If you want to perk it up a bit, 3.73s would put the top of second at 65=4850, and 65 in overdrive will be 2123, and 85 will be 2776. All still very good numbers. The sacrifice here is the starter gear, which climbs to 11.53. You will need to baby it out a bit.
I like the 3.73s. The 2-1 downshift at 32 mph, will get you a smoking hot 4426rpm.So perhaps lower the downshift speed to 30mph@4150rpm
Now
This combo,with a powerpeak at 5200 will not get you any bragging rites as to hp and tq. It will not get you a big trapspeed or a low-ET.
What it will do, is make a fabulous hi-torque streeter, that for it's displacement, gets fabulous fuel mileage. Tune it up right, and that will be something to brag about. If you can make the tires stick, you could make a really strong zero to 60mph number, and with a little more gear,I think I can see a little air under your front tires.
So, now, about that 5200 power peak, what say you?
I'll tell you a little secret.
The 360, will for you,hit all these targets too. With just a little less tirespin,lol, and a little more mpgs. I know because I already built this combo.
And I have the recipe.

The GVOD unit is $2800, on top of a rebuilt 904/727 which is $950, trans cooler and lines $150, total of $3900.

4 speed conversion kits are about $4000. Or, maybe piece it together cheaper on my own. There's a A833 OD unit for sale for $600 near me, then find the rest, might be able to do it for $3500.

So from a price perspective, it's a wash. Now, for me at least, it comes down to the following...
1-Ease of installation
2-Street manners
3-Maintenance cost/regularity
4-Overall value added to the car

Seems like it is a 2-2 tie. In my opinion, #1 & #3 lean towards A/T, #2 & #4 lean towards the 4 speed. So, still a bit up in the air about it.

When you say "small cam", what are you thinking?
 
If you are set on a 408, you should have all kinds of torque, so the next problem becomes what do I need to make it bullet proof. I'd get a Passon Hemi O/D, http://www.passonperformance.com/images/stories/passon_documents/Passon_Overdrive_Flyer_20091109.pdf, and be done. You can use standard "A" Body shifter, linkage and all. The rear will be the next weak point. What torque are you looking at?
From my understanding, the torque will be around 500 ft/lbs. The Passon adds another $2000-$3000, I'm wondering if it's necessary. Will a built 23 spline A833 have problems with the 408 torque?
 
From my understanding, the torque will be around 500 ft/lbs. The Passon adds another $2000-$3000, I'm wondering if it's necessary. Will a built 23 spline A833 have problems with the 408 torque?
Nope!!
 
From my understanding, the torque will be around 500 ft/lbs. The Passon adds another $2000-$3000, I'm wondering if it's necessary. Will a built 23 spline A833 have problems with the 408 torque?

That is about where the factory went to the 18 spline and a Dana...
 
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