Battery in Trunk wiring completed, now no power at all

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MrBelvedere2

MrBelvedere2

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I finally finished wiring up the car using this wiring Diagram. My problem is, the car seems to be completely dead with no power going anywhere. Before I get out my meter and start tracing, I thought I would ask you guys what you would check, and what could be suspect? I grounded the battery to the rear frame rail, engine is grounded as well. Thanks for the help.

trunkbattwire1.jpg
 
If the battery is good, I would just run a small piece of wire from the negative and ground it in the engine compartment, or on the block. Then you can check to see if a light, or ignition or something will energize. Could just use meter from your positive up front to ground.
 
I believe the master disconnect should be in between the battery on the positive line cutting juice completely you're still running power to the ford solenoid continuously

Also definitely ground issue make sure you're so you know what you're grounded scratching the paint off to get down to the metal
 
Put the meter on continuity check.....measure from chassis to neg side of battery.....it should beep. Like others said, sounds like a ground issue. Or that main power run to the Ford solenoid.

The meter will save you allot of guess work ;-)
 
kris hines said:
Put the meter on continuity check.....measure from chassis to neg side of battery.....it should beep. Like others said, sounds like a ground issue. Or that main power run to the Ford solenoid.

The meter will save you allot of guess work ;-)
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put your meter on the batt positive post & a nearby good ground & that'll elim or confirm the ground side as a culprit in 10 seconds. if good, go to the hot side of the furd solenoid & it should be hot & work downstream on that power side till you find the open
 
Your car will not shut off by disconnect with that wiring. Tha alternator will continue to drive the system.
OOPs I'm wrong. With the 1-wire it will work.

But in your drawing,the battery and alternator are still "live", and a short on the cable can still set your car on fire. The disconnect needs to be the first connection to the B+, and they should both be mounted between the frame-rails, for maximum protection from a side impact..
All you need to do is; remove the battery+ wire from the Ford relay "s" terminal, and put it on the supply side of the disconnect. Then, as to the jumper that goes from the "s" terminal to the disconnect; remove it from the disconnect and reattach it to the big stud on the Mopar relay, Now you are in business.
The battery+ should go directly to the disconnect and nowhere else.From the disconnect it should go to the front of the car to distributed there.You could bring it to the ford relay and use the stud there is a jumping off place.
For the Ammeter to work, it has to be connected to the battery on one side and to the alternator on the other.Some of us have opted not to carry the high current thru the bulkhead connector, and no longer use the ammeter.

Having said all that, your circuit,as shown, should function, if the grounds return to the battery. Since nothing works, I would suspect the connection closest to the Battery negative terminal.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
Your car will not shut off by disconnect with that wiring. Tha alternator will continue to drive the system.
OOPs I'm wrong
But the battery and alternator are still "live", and a short on the cable can still set your car on fire. The disconnect needs to be the first connection to the B+, and they should both be mounted between the frame-rails, for maximum protection from a side impact..
All you need to do is; remove the battery+ wire from the Ford relay "s" terminal, and put it on the supply side of the disconnect. Then as to the jumper that goes from the "s" terminal to the disconnect; remove it from the disconnect and reattach it to the big stud on the Mopar relay
The battery+ should go directly to the disconnect and nowhere else.From the disconnect it should go to the front of the car to distributed there.
Click to expand...

Why does it matter where the battery cable goes, disconnect or ford relay? Same with the alt charge line, why the supply side of the cutoff??? :)

Which item takes the heavier load? It isn't the disconnect switch! So you suggest placing another resistance, jump point in the line to the starter? Not the best approach.

That exact schematic has wired HUNDREDS of cars over the years!

OP, find out where the power is dropping out or if the ground is suitable.
 
I guess you are not wiring this to go to the track then, but just for personal use?

Because in this drawing,there is about 15 ft of welding cable going to the front of the car which is live at all times.A short anywhere along it's length could be a major problem.
The alternator output does not need to come all the way to the trunk.You can stick it on the starter or the big stud on the Mopar relay or on the "s" terminal, or anywhere in that circuit that is convenient, if the Ammeter is not being used.
Unless I guess if the Ford solenoid is also in the trunk. I didn't think of that.
If the Ford solenoid is in the trunk, then you crackedback are right, the drawing is good as is. And then, to Mr.Bel, sorry to have thrown you a curve there.
But if the Ford solenoid is in the trunk then you have at least one 10 or 8ga wire going from the alternator all the way to the trunk, which is live at all times.And you have another 8ga wire going from the Mopar relay to the trunk, that is live whenever the disconnect is passing juice. So you still have not solved the 15 ft live wire issue, only moved it to two smaller wires.
My reading of the rules back in 2004,said that when the safety guy trips the disconnect all juice stops at the switch.Has that changed?
 
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AJ/FormS said:
I guess you are not wiring this to go to the track then, but just for personal use?

Because in this drawing,there is about 15 ft of welding cable going to the front of the car which is live at all times.A short anywhere along it's length could be a major problem.
Click to expand...

That set up is 100% legal to go to any NHRA track.

The battery cable to the starter IS NOT live in that schematic except when the key is in the start position.

It's not the way I like to do it, but, it works.
 
Thank you for the responses so far, I did forget to mention that, yes the ford solenoid is in the trunk next to the battery and cut off switch. The purpose of the solenoid is to only energize the 1ga cable when actually starting the car. Other than that it is not hot at all times. Thank you for the advice, I will start looking around tommorrow with the meter and see what I can come up with. I was suspecting a bad ground to frame, although it is clean with no rust or paint, and bolted tightly to the frame.
 
Also need "big" engine to chassis ground, or battery (-) back to engine. It supplies return path for starter and alternator, also not shown. The typical small ground jumper from engine to bulkhead is weak for starter load.
 
Ok I was able to work on it a little bit today, did some tracing with the meter. Ground is good, has power to the cut-off switch and power to the solenoid. It also has power feeding the car at the starter relay. The ammeter has power on both sides in the dash although it is disconnected from the alternator and a dedicated wire is running from the alternator back to the solenoid in the trunk. No headlights, no dome light no brake lights, nothing seems to have power. The only thing does seem to have power is the windshield wipers, they seem to work fine, which I find odd. Any ideas? Thanks
 
crackedback said:
That set up is 100% legal to go to any NHRA track.

The battery cable to the starter IS NOT live in that schematic except when the key is in the start position.

It's not the way I like to do it, but, it works.
Click to expand...

It does work, but the way I read the NHRA rules the above wiring does not comply - the cutoff is not connected to the positive side of the battery.

NHRA 2017 Rules, Section 8:4 Master Cut Off
Mandatory when battery is relocated, or as outlined in Class Requirements. An electrical power cutoff switch (one only) must be installed on the rearmost part of each vehicle and be easily accessible from outside the car body. This cutoff switch must be connected to the positive side of the electrical system and must stop all electrical functions including magneto ignition.

I went through this when trying to figure out wiring an alternator into our system. This thread discusses it, along with wiring alternators, and some neat variations ... but still compliant. 4 post it seems best for alternator wiring.

4 terminal battery cutoff switch for use with alternator??? - Yellow Bullet Forums

If the OP is not worried about tech checks, c'est la vie. :). I also know what the book says ain't what some places care about.
 
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MrBelvedere2 said:
Ok I was able to work on it a little bit today, did some tracing with the meter. Ground is good, has power to the cut-off switch and power to the solenoid. It also has power feeding the car at the starter relay. The ammeter has power on both sides in the dash although it is disconnected from the alternator and a dedicated wire is running from the alternator back to the solenoid in the trunk. No headlights, no dome light no brake lights, nothing seems to have power. The only thing does seem to have power is the windshield wipers, they seem to work fine, which I find odd. Any ideas? Thanks
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I would check what KitCarlson said if you did not.

I know you said you ground battery to rear frame rail, and the engine is ground up front. I was told/taught to bring ground wire (2G or bigger) from the battery to the front to the engine, firewall and the frame up there.

I ran two grounds - one like you in truck to rear frame rail and another to firewall stud. To that stud on the inside I ran lines to firewall, metal dash and frame. In engine compartment I have engine ground straps (both heads and block). Maybe overkill, but "you can never have enough **** ground" was beaten into me. Lol

The lights that aren't working are body ground, aren't they? Maybe the ground to just the rear frame rail isn't suffice. I would think a quick check with rear brakes by running temp wire from - battery terminal to light bulb body socket to ground frame there may validate it .

I'm no expert - just trying help from what I've learned.
 
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The Wipers get their power from the ignition switch and so does about 1/2 of the fuse box.............................So the ignition switch is working.As is the the ground path from the wipers to the battery.
The headlights and horn do not go thru the IgSw., The headlights also do not go thru the fusebox, but the horns do.If the wipers have a ground then so should the horns, So I bet the horns are not getting power.If the wipers are finding a ground then so too should the headlights, as long as you remembered to secure the little ring terminal behind the LH headlight to the core-support. That sorta leads me to think the headlights are also not receiving power.
So now we go back to the location where the starter-relay was originally installed. IDK what car we are working on so I'm flying by the seat if my pants here, But there should be one or two wires small gauge wires connected to the big stud. Those are power take offs for the ignition sw and headlights. Are yours connected? If yes then follow them up to the bulkhead connector. Here they should terminate with fusible links. You will have to make sure power is there and getting thru. And not just enough power to work your multimeter but serious power, so a little tugging is in order. If the power is there then it goes thru the bulkhead. One wire then goes to the ammeter and then the ignition sw, and the other wire goes to the fuse box. There are about 3 fuses in that box(A-body) that are always live, the brake sw, the horn, and the hazzards. See if you have power there. The ignition sw powers up all the others. That should keep you busy for a few hours.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
So now we go back to the location where the starter-relay was originally installed. IDK what car we are working on so I'm flying by the seat if my pants here, But there should be one or two wires small gauge wires connected to the big stud.
Click to expand...

Sorry I guess I should have mentioned it is a 1968 Dodge Dart.
 
Everything inside the car is pretty much fed from the alternator black wire running to the ammeter.

If the red and back ammeter wires are not connected, it won't power up the fuse box, headlights, etc.

Right or wrong, NHRA techs only cares that the car shuts off... Read some of the post because the schematic isn't the one that many use to meet the letter of the rule. The schematic passes tech every day at NHRA tracks across the country.

Argue amongst yourselves as to what the rules say. :)
 
I'm confused why you would need both the Ford & Chrysler Starter Solenoid? Just 1 will do what you need & with less parts to fail.
 
GRANCUDA said:
I'm confused why you would need both the Ford & Chrysler Starter Solenoid? Just 1 will do what you need & with less parts to fail.
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Because then the large gauge starter wire is dead except when cranking.
 
crackedback said:
Everything inside the car is pretty much fed from the alternator black wire running to the ammeter.

If the red and back ammeter wires are not connected, it won't power up the fuse box, headlights, etc.
Click to expand...

So, even though I have power at both sides of the ammeter, just not connected to the alternator, it could cause this problem? I would think if it has power on both sides it would be feeding the black wire where it splits off from the "welded splice" to power the car and other things.
 
The welded splice is after the amp meter, so in a stock setup, if the amp meter is disconnected, so is the battery from the entire wiring harness.

Not sure in your case, though. Not sure why you have power on both sides of the amp gauge. Best suggestion I have is to connect amp gauge wires together with a screw (assuming you don't want to connect the gauge) and see if things work. Betting it will make a difference.
 
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