where am I going wrong?

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mopar56

mopar56

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So my son and I put the engine trans back in his car, 1970 Duster 318 a833od, it was originally a 3spd std car, when he got it there wasn't a trans or associated parts, just the pedals, the problem we are having is with the pedal, when it goes to the floor it wants to stay there if you give it a little encouragement it will come back about half way, the movement below looks good, the clutch diaphragm is going in and out with the bearing but I have the adjusting rod or spoon almost maxed out which isn't right, the spoon I am using was from in my shop it is 5 1/2 inches over all length, is this right?, I believe I have the proper fork, I have many to choose from and the one I am using is the same as the a833 I have in my 56 Dodge which came from an a body, the spring on the pedal seems very strong, even with no trans in the car when you depress the pedal it stays on the floor due to the spring?
 
Does the pedal have anspring in it?
(Inside the car)
 
Sounds like the over center spring is missing. It's a big coil spring that goes on th clutch pedal under the dash.

Start with that.

As for the adjustment, there are several clutch forks and I don't recall if the OD trains had its own fork.
 
It sounds like the over center spring is STILL THERE, and he said the magic word, "diaphragm" (snicker).

If it's a diaphragm clutch, put your car on a diet and start with tossing that over center spring, It's not used with diaphragm clutches.

How sure are you that your z- bar/pivot shaft is correct, not installed backwards (if that is even possible), etc?
 
Crap! Missed "diaphragm!"
Remove the over center spring!

Jos, you can not install the Z bar backwards/upside down.
 
the "overcenter spring" on the pedal helps grandma push the pedal to the floor. I removed it, and I have a long pressure plate
 
OK , wow thanks for all the great responses first of all I didn't know anyone was using any clutch other than a diaphragm that's the only one I found ? That being said it IS a diaphragm clutch and it DOSE have the heavy duty spring in the pedals but I had a spare set of pedals with the same spring so I didn't know if I could remove it but it did cross my mind so...if that's what every one us doing I will take it out hopefully I can do this with out removing the pedals from the car?
 
Forgot to say the Z bar is correctly mounted but can any one confirm the length of the adjustment rod or spoon from the fork to the Z bar min is 5.5 inches over all but it is near the end of its travel I might be able to adjust it back a bit when I remove the over spring
 
Any tricks to getting the over spring off?, I tried for over a half hour last night with a pry bar and screw driver with no luck, I got a hold off a pretty cool Snap-On short prying bar with a fork in the end and a sharp bend that might work I could try tonight, it seems a pry bar is too long to work with in the tight space its in and I really don't want to take the pedals out or cut it.
 
I've heard you press the pedal down to extend the spring, and then fill the spaces between the coils with washers so the spring stays extended when the pedal is brought back up.
 
I pushed the pedal down, drove a bunch of big sheet metal screws in the spaces. Can just spin them out after the spring is out
 
It doesn't surprise me that you're adjusted that far out, mines barely hanging on the edge also
mopar56 said:
Forgot to say the Z bar is correctly mounted but can any one confirm the length of the adjustment rod or spoon from the fork to the Z bar min is 5.5 inches over all but it is near the end of its travel I might be able to adjust it back a bit when I remove the over spring
Click to expand...
 
My CFII seemed to have a very fat disc, that allowed the fork to move very far forward towards the rad. So I used the short rod. I'm pretty sure the OEM rod was longer than 5.5
The release forks need to be matched to the pivot tower.And the tower centers the fork in the window vertically and towards the front, so that during clutch disengagement there is someplace to go. So if yours is so centered and properly installed under the TO clips, then tho only other difference is the outside length. And if that is wrong for your Z-bar, it won't even work.
If I had to guess at something, I might choose a too-thin disc, or an engine mount not installed correctly.
Make sure the Zbar is sitting very near to parallel to the ground and at 90* to the vehicle centerline as viewed from above.The pedal downrod should be well centered in it's oval opening, and all the nylon bushings installed and the clip installed that keeps the bar from traveling sideways.
 
OK thanks AJ all good info, so first of all the bell housing we are using us not the ball style but rather the pointer style so it goes into a little window in the bell rather than on the ball I'm sure you know what I mean but it seems correct as it moves freely and is centered in the bell window the Z bar is 90 degree to the block but it is a bit higher on the engine side than the frame side and our motor mounts are as low as they can go in the bracket for the mount we are using the biscuit style mount maybe you have a picture of how you mounts are if you using they same style? That being said I think the over spring is a big part og my problem but haven't removed it yet it's tough to remove but hoping to use the screw trick previously mentioned above this weekend thanks.
 
mopar56 said:
not the ball style but rather the pointer style so it goes into a little window in the bell rather than on the ball I'm sure you know what I mean
Click to expand...
Post up some pictures if you can.
Bracket.gif
 
mopar56 said:
OK thanks AJ all good info, so first of all the bell housing we are using us not the ball style but rather the pointer style so it goes into a little window in the bell rather than on the ball I'm sure you know what I mean but it seems correct as it moves freely and is centered in the bell window the Z bar is 90 degree to the block but it is a bit higher on the engine side than the frame side and our motor mounts are as low as they can go in the bracket for the mount we are using the biscuit style mount maybe you have a picture of how you mounts are if you using they same style? That being said I think the over spring is a big part og my problem but haven't removed it yet it's tough to remove but hoping to use the screw trick previously mentioned above this weekend thanks.
Click to expand...
Yes, there are at least 2 different height blade style pivots, if You have the short one it may not be a match for Your combo. That can run You out of adjustment easily, there
are a couple of different length adj links as well, if You've mix & matched stuff that's probably what's up.
 
If the clutch is releasing & engaging OK with the adjustment there, that looks fine Dude, just toss the over-center spring from the pedal assy. as stated, you're good.

The over center spring is designed to assist the effort to compress the Borg & Beck
cover springs, which can get pretty cocky when You step up to one that can hold
a bunch of torque, if You simply pull the adj. link off You can easily remove the
spring. As stated, You can space the coils, but look & watch how the spring works.
Slightly depressing the pedal will bring the coil to it's fullest extension just before
it goes over center, space it, then w/the link out as per above, it will try to suck
the pedal to the floor. With the spacers in the coils, pushing it to the floor should
make it easy to remove.
 
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