Some quick help please

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scott2683

scott2683

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I have been getting some vibrations from my car and narrowed it down to the trans, decided to put new bearings and a clutch kit in it. Instead of tackling this myself i took it down to my local transmission shop. After going for a ride with me he agreed that it was probably a tail shaft bearing, Instead of just trying a part here and there to fix it I decided to just buy a clutch and a bearing kit for the car since I didn't know the history of the transmission.

He calls me last night and says the main shaft is warped, which is causing my vibration, but he also said that this has ruined 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears because it's not touching the main shaft on all of the teeth, therefore there's rust and putting on the gears.

This all sounds really odd to me. He's suggesting that I buy a new gear set and do a full rebuild on the transmission. The gears don't look bad to me, so I'd definitely like some more opinions on the best option. He sent me these pics this morning.

Here's some videos and a photo. The pitting does not look bad to me. But I'm no expert in transmissions.

Dropbox - Video May 31, 12 52 35 PM.mp4

Dropbox - Video May 31, 12 53 03 PM.mp4

Dropbox - Video May 31, 12 53 16 PM.mp4

IMG_0919.JPG
 
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scott2683 said:
I have been getting some vibrations from my car and narrowed it down to the trans, decided to put new bearings and a clutch kit in it. Instead of tackling this myself i took it down to my local transmission shop. After going for a ride with me he agreed that it was probably a tail shaft bearing, Instead of just trying a part here and there to fix it I decided to just buy a clutch and a bearing kit for the car since I didn't know the history of the transmission.

He calls me last night and says the main shaft is warped, which is causing my vibration, but he also said that this has ruined 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears because it's not touching the main shaft on all of the teeth, therefore there's rust and putting on the gears.

This all sounds really odd to me. He's suggesting that I buy a new gear set and do a full rebuild on the transmission. The gears don't look bad to me, so I'd definitely like some more opinions on the best option. He sent me these pics this morning.

Here's some videos and a photo. The pitting does not look bad to me. But I'm no expert in transmissions.

Dropbox - Video May 31, 12 52 35 PM.mp4

Dropbox - Video May 31, 12 53 03 PM.mp4

Dropbox - Video May 31, 12 53 16 PM.mp4

View attachment 1715052973
Click to expand...
In the pic on the left. Looks like the gears are worn on the edges at the top and completely missing some of the gears towards the middle of gear set. Trans guy is correct IMO. Your money though lol.
 
Thanks for the advice, that's exactly why I asked for some help on here. I want to fix the car right the first time, and not have to deal with this issue again. I'd much rather spend a little more upfront, than have to throw money at a rebuild later on.
 
scott2683 said:
Thanks for the advice, that's exactly why I asked for some help on here. I want to fix the car right the first time, and not have to deal with this issue again. I'd much rather spend a little more upfront, than have to throw money at a rebuild later on.
Click to expand...
I'm sure others will chime in too. I completely understand wanting to get it right the first time. It's not much fun taking that trans in and out. Hope that helps.
Brian
 
Whoa! Yea man! Not that the trans is toast but I would only use it for a 100% EZ driver. No performance intended. Like grand-ma's light right foot driver. Once you start pumping it up or drive spiritedly, it is not going this be a happy trans.

That is ether a rebuild or replace because that would only sit on the side lines here for me for a just incase I brake crap emergency useage.

Here is were you decide if it is rebuild time or upgrade.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Whoa! Yea man! Not that the trans is toast but I would only use it for a 100% EZ driver. No performance intended. Like grand-ma's light right foot driver. Once you start pumping it up or drive spiritedly, it is not going this be a happy trans.

That is ether a rebuild or replace because that would only sit on the side lines here for me for a just incase I brake crap emergency useage.

Here is were you decide if it is rebuild time or upgrade.
Click to expand...


Right on!! I'm just pushing a mild 360 with it, so I think a rebuild will be fine. Most I'll do is some spirited driving but nothing too crazy.

I'm waiting to hear back from the trans shop today, so hopefully he and I can get a plan of action put together.

Thanks for the help!
 
What kind of money are you talking to fix your old one? Might be a good time to shop for a new 4 or 5 speed? Thru Passion or Brewers ?
 
Yea man! No problem. I don't know what a rebuild like this goes for but it is probably cheaper than a full new trans set up like a Tremac 5spd. But that would be a nicely rounded killer set up in anything.

Do what the wallet allows.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
What kind of money are you talking to fix your old one? Might be a good time to shop for a new 4 or 5 speed? Thru Passion or Brewers ?
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Exactly what I need to talk to the shop about. He said he has located all the gears and everything off of a local guy for $400. If thats the case I should be all in under $1000. If this guy ends up not having what I need. I was thinking of just buying a rebuilt 4 speed from brewers. Last time I looked they were about $1300. I did see that a 5 speed from Passon is about $2500, but I would probably need to buy a new bell housing and some other parts. It's never going to be a high dollar car, so I would probably just opt for another 4 speed.
 
How did you narrow down the vibration to the transmission? I have a vibration I am trying to track down. Comes and goes only at idle RPM.
 
I had an alignment, new balanced wheels and tires, new u joints, had the drive shaft balanced, and put a new transmission mount in it. I noticed that it would only vibrate at certain RPMs, but if the car was in neutral it didn't vibrate at any RPM, it also wasn't contingent on speed. So for me it was process of elimination.

Good luck!
 
Ask the tranny guy to put the main shaft between a set of centers, put a dial indicator on it and spin it around. Main shaft is a big hefty piece of steel, can't quite see how it got warped.........yes those gears look bad!!
 
JBurch said:
Ask the tranny guy to put the main shaft between a set of centers, put a dial indicator on it and spin it around. Main shaft is a big hefty piece of steel, can't quite see how it got warped.........yes those gears look bad!!
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I'm with you, I don't see how it got bent either. I'm going to head over to the shop tomorrow afternoon when I finish up with a couple meetings at work. I'll ask him to show me how it got warped. He said he's never experienced one warped either. So hopefully I can get some answers and solutions.
 
since you found the gears cheap enough, That's a good deal.
Had you not; I would have said to replace just second gear, and the bent mainshaft(if in fact it is bent).
And the reason is this;
First gear is very lightly loaded.
Fourth is even more lightly loaded. Usually this gear ios not even used until cruising speed.
Third is a between gear. It may or may not see hard work depending on how willing you are to get caught speeding.
Second is the workhorse gear. It almost always gets you to 60/65 mph at peak horsepower or a bit beyond. And when you get into it at the top of first gear, you will be right on peak-torque, so again it is taking abuse.
And if you punch it at 35mph in second, you will be doing about
3000/3100 with 3.55s. By 45 or so you will be at peak torque. So again second is taking a licking.
But I've seen worse; still in operation.
Honestly,IMO,that tranny is way over-engineered for SBM-A-bodies. Just look at the top-loaders from the 60s and 70s. Or the pussy Saginaws. I bet two of those just barely out weigh an A833
 
A rebuild kit is $99. I thought rebuilding my 4-speed was simple until I just rebuilt a 904 automatic. If you've actually pulled the 4 bolts around the gearbox, the 4 bolts on the transmission crossmember and the 4 bolts on the U-joints to take the Driveline off and the two bolts holding the shifter on. You've done at least half or more of the work of rebuilding it LOL there's only one spot in the whole transmission that you may need to check a tolerance on the intermediate shaft. Maybe. It's really just unbolt it take the pieces out and put new pieces back in there's no rocket science here whatsoever. I find myself in the wrong business if people are charging $1,000 to rebuild these.
I've yet to figure out why someone would buy a hobby car like this and just turn into a subcontractor. I love to talk to my friends who've had all the hot rods in the world and can tell you all kinds of interesting details about them of course all these details were what their mechanic told them that they did to them they didn't actually do it themselves but they will talk as if they did. These friends of mine have blowers and dual quad tunnel Rams and all kinds of pyrometers and crazy gauges in their cars of course they don't know how they're hooked up and barely know how to read them. I'm sorry about this rant and it's likely that you live in an apartment or somewhere where you can't have space to work on it and that's usually the case. But it seems to be making me more and more nuts that there's so many people out here with garages and tools and still insist on being subcontractors and not truly enjoying their Hobby. OK rant over. Lesson of the story here do it yourself if you want it done right. And one last thing you can trust me here and now that if you decide to rebuild this transmission yourself I would Direct and help you in any way I could word for word part four part. YOU can do it.
Oh yeah you'll need some real special tools - a pair of snap ring pliers...


scott2683 said:
Exactly what I need to talk to the shop about. He said he has located all the gears and everything off of a local guy for $400. If thats the case I should be all in under $1000. If this guy ends up not having what I need. I was thinking of just buying a rebuilt 4 speed from brewers. Last time I looked they were about $1300. I did see that a 5 speed from Passon is about $2500, but I would probably need to buy a new bell housing and some other parts. It's never going to be a high dollar car, so I would probably just opt for another 4 speed.
Click to expand...
 
j par said:
A rebuild kit is $99. I thought rebuilding my 4-speed was simple until I just rebuilt a 904 automatic. If you've actually pulled the 4 bolts around the gearbox, the 4 bolts on the transmission crossmember and the 4 bolts on the U-joints to take the Driveline off and the two bolts holding the shifter on. You've done at least half or more of the work of rebuilding it LOL there's only one spot in the whole transmission that you may need to check a tolerance on the intermediate shaft. Maybe. It's really just unbolt it take the pieces out and put new pieces back in there's no rocket science here whatsoever. I find myself in the wrong business if people are charging $1,000 to rebuild these.
I've yet to figure out why someone would buy a hobby car like this and just turn into a subcontractor. I love to talk to my friends who've had all the hot rods in the world and can tell you all kinds of interesting details about them of course all these details were what their mechanic told them that they did to them they didn't actually do it themselves but they will talk as if they did. These friends of mine have blowers and dual quad tunnel Rams and all kinds of pyrometers and crazy gauges in their cars of course they don't know how they're hooked up and barely know how to read them. I'm sorry about this rant and it's likely that you live in an apartment or somewhere where you can't have space to work on it and that's usually the case. But it seems to be making me more and more nuts that there's so many people out here with garages and tools and still insist on being subcontractors and not truly enjoying their Hobby. OK rant over. Lesson of the story here do it yourself if you want it done right. And one last thing you can trust me here and now that if you decide to rebuild this transmission yourself I would Direct and help you in any way I could word for word part four part. YOU can do it.
Oh yeah you'll need some real special tools - a pair of snap ring pliers...
Click to expand...

I appreciate your input, and your willingness to guide me through the process of rebuilding the transmission. I do have a garage and tools, I do all of my own engine work, but I'm not overly comfortable working on transmissions. I wasn't anticipating a full rebuild, but this is what he found after he got it apart.

I agree with you however, if you want it done right do it yourself, labor is outrageous, and I'm pretty frugal with my money.

Thanks again
 
Lets see, mainshaft warped, sounds kinda iffy. I would believe the driveshaft is bent or twisted, but who knows. As far as rust and pitting, only if the transmission was sitting outside in the mud for like 20 years. Aren't those gears in an oil bath most of their life? Yeah another transmission for a core might be the way to go, get one that doesnt have too much damage inside. From what I have always understood, the A 833 is pretty heavy duty. There should be a good used one out there that would need minimal internals other than the usual wear items and seals. As always just my $.02
 
Checking the mainshaft is easy. You have a dial indicator? No? Use your eyes. Heck you can MAKE V blocks out of anything......wood. Lay the shaft in there so you can turn it. make a simple pointer. Drill press? Perfect. Lots of ways. Bring the pointer down close, turn the shaft, watch for wobble.

This will tell you TWO things......whether the shaft is really "warped" and how honest your rebuilder is
 
67Dart273 said:
Checking the mainshaft is easy. You have a dial indicator? No? Use your eyes. Heck you can MAKE V blocks out of anything......wood. Lay the shaft in there so you can turn it. make a simple pointer. Drill press? Perfect. Lots of ways. Bring the pointer down close, turn the shaft, watch for wobble.

This will tell you TWO things......whether the shaft is really "warped" and how honest your rebuilder is
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I definitely struggle with trust, especially when it comes to someone providing a service for me!

Thanks for the info
 
You know what; I just thought of something.
If your guy was spinning the M/S while it was still in the rear housing, and no rear yoke installed, then, if that rear bearing looks anything like those gears, then there is a good chance that the M/S nose was doing a dance, which could be interpreted as "warped". This is, of course, a bs way of testing.
 
AJ/FormS said:
You know what; I just thought of something.
If your guy was spinning the M/S while it was still in the rear housing, and no rear yoke installed, then, if that rear bearing looks anything like those gears, then there is a good chance that the M/S nose was doing a dance, which could be interpreted as "warped". This is, of course, a bs way of testing.
Click to expand...

That's actually a really good point. I went to the transmission shop last night, but the guy who's working on it wasn't there. I did look at the gears though. They looked worse in person than in the pics. I couldn't tell if the main shaft was warped or not by looking at it, but it looked worn too. He did give me the number to a guy that says he has what i need. I spoke with him, and he was willing to sell a main shaft, all the gears, and synchronizers for a couple hundred, which is cheaper than he originally said for everything.

Looks like it's going to be a full rebuild with a new clutch, I also took the flywheel to Napa to have it turned, so she should drive really well when i get it back!
 
If you are gonna replace all the gears on the m/s Then it would be a good idea to change ALL the gears including the input and cluster, on account of those gears are well broken-in together.
Whereas the three m/s gears when running on your cluster, may be noisy. The seller probably knows that, and if I was him I would let you make me a deal on a trade for whatever good parts you may have, in addition to the 3 gears and M/S.
I wouldn't be scarred of used synchronizer brass either, so long as they bite hard on the cones with light pressure, and sit reasonably high. Put the best one on second gear!
 
If you would have immediately put your car on 4 jack stands and taken out those 14 bolts oh yeah and speedometer cable. It would already be apart on your workbench and you would have already called Brewers and your parts be on their way to you now.
Oh yeah and the part where you would be smacking yourself on the head going "that's it?"
That's the big transmission mystery!??
 
Personally, I would probably ask the transmission shop what I owed them for what they've done. and send it to Brewer's. There is nobody better with Mopar 4 speeds. Most local transmission shops do a thousand automatics for each manual.
 
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