Frustrated with inability to do body work!

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rod7515

rod7515

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Ive been working on the front fenders of my 66 dart on and off for 6 weeks. Im no farther ahead tonight then I was at the beginning. Problem Im having isnt making surface smooth but its creating or should I say recreating the body lines. Heres the history, My dart is a 270, it had a body trim that went from front to rear about 3/4 of the way towards the top of the fenders and door and rear quarters. Ive removed them and will not be using them again so I had to weld the holes that are in the body to hold trim in place. Here is a pic of the fender.
IMAG1252.jpg

Above the center between the 2 indents are the biggest issue. There are 3 places that you can see I have put filler into. My issue is remaking that body line both top and bottom. First I am struggling to find the exact line to follow. Ive been trying to stretch tape along the old line but its very hard to see that exact line since the line is rounded toward the indents. I can make the indented area flat but im struggling to then match the rounded body line to the flat area without going to high into the center area or to low into the flat indented area. I feel like all i do is make filler and sand it off and repeat! I tried using 180 grit and also 80 grit on sanding blocks both flat and rounded ones.
DSCN0039.JPG
Above you can see I have it somewhat filled in but it was to low at the flat area of the indent. Below it looks like I have body lines but they werent straight. Any suggestions on a good method would be greatly appreciated.
DSCN0037.JPG

I want to do this myself and not have to pay someone to do it but so far I am going nowhere fast!
Thanks Rod
 
Not meant offensive or smartass at all, but what stands out in my opinion is the lack of patience and the use of flat straight sanding devices.

It looks like too much filler material is being taken off to aggressively.
 
Trailbeast, not taken as a smartass comment. I appreciate your advice. Im not using just flat blocks tho. I said in my first post I have used both round and flat blocks. What do you recommend for paper? Ive tried the 80 but as you stated it seems to fast and the 180 seems to clog and doesnt cut as evenly. As for lack of patience you are right there. I havent had enough time to dedicate to the job and since I am unfamiliar with body work it is frustrating putting on and sanding off.
Thats the reason I posted and Im hoping someone will give me some good advice to follow so I can see headway.
Rod
 
Find a piece of foam pipe insulation that closely matches that concave curve and the corresponding piece of pipe for some backbone. That's your new sanding block. Long strokes from end to end. On those inside corners cut a short piece of the insulation and use it without the pipe inside. Where you place your fingers and the pressure you apply to each one will effect the result.
 
Also know when to say good enough. Nobody (including yourself) is ever going to stare at it this hard ever again.
 
rod7515 said:
Trailbeast, not taken as a smartass comment. I appreciate your advice. Im not using just flat blocks tho. I said in my first post I have used both round and flat blocks. What do you recommend for paper? Ive tried the 80 but as you stated it seems to fast and the 180 seems to clog and doesnt cut as evenly. As for lack of patience you are right there. I havent had enough time to dedicate to the job and since I am unfamiliar with body work it is frustrating putting on and sanding off.
Thats the reason I posted and Im hoping someone will give me some good advice to follow so I can see headway.
Rod
Click to expand...

PA scamp said something that I think is important enough to point out again.
Don't try to work spots, but work the entire length of your lines at once as evenly as you can, and plugging up paper is kind of a given if you work filler too soon.
Try filling and then waiting until you can get to it again if you can't give it a good couple of hours to set first.
 
Also, if you get it real close, try using some finishing putty for the last little bit of shaping. It sands very smoothly with 220 grit dry paper. If you lived close to me, I'd come over and help.
 
harrisonm said:
Also, if you get it real close, try using some finishing putty for the last little bit of shaping. It sands very smoothly with 220 grit dry paper. If you lived close to me, I'd come over and help.
Click to expand...

I'm kind of ways away also. :D
Heck ya could probably find 657,000 people between here and there that are better at it than me.
 
I had a concave body line on my 57 Ford fender the same place, like this:
c78f962667d22c92f3a8d6fdf3ce5a9c.png

I never could get it "right" so I did my best and primed it. It turned out to be about a 5 footer, but that better than a 10.
I still hated those "last minute" headlights. They were supposed to be quads for 57 but the quad headlight law didn't change in time.
 
pishta said:
I had a concave body line on my 57 Ford fender the same place, like this:
View attachment 1715083217
I never could get it "right" so I did my best and primed it. It turned out to be about a 5 footer, but that better than a 10.
I still hated those "last minute" headlights. They were supposed to be quads for 57 but the quad headlight law didn't change in time.
Click to expand...

Yea, that one would be a PIA for sure.
I seem to be ok with compound angles like the scoop but have problems with big flatter places, and I really do think it's an impatient thing.
What's up with that?:D
This is my (antenna and badging delete) fender and it turned out okusing the round sanding (I aslo used pipe insulation with a dowel inside it) and worked a large length of area lightly until I was sanding with pretty much the entire length of the 12 inch round sanding roll using an X motion even though I was really only getting rid of the antenna hole at this end of the fender.

antenna.JPG


newfender.jpg
 
Some very good things to try and I hope to take another shot at it tomorrow night. I will give the insulation foam a shot and see how it goes. The patience thing is a definite! Lets see how tomorrow works out. I will report back late tomorrow as I will be out working on it until about 11:00 here. Of course I wont get out to it until 9:00 because I have to baby sit grand kids!
Pascamp, great comment about never looking at it that close again! I will try to be less picky! lol
harriesonm, I did do a quick shot tonight at the glazing putty but as was said earlier I probably sanded it off to quick with the 80 grit! But I will try the 180 on it instead.
Thanks again
Rod
 
A couple observations, you could use tape to establish your lines uniformly on both sides. I use a sanding product called Abranet with blocks through 400 and block with 800 up wet. Use guide coat. It looks to me like you are ready for some epoxy primer too. Don't press too hard on your blocks. And lastly, a year from now even you won't see it.
Best of luck, you are doing good work.
 
you can buy 'pool noodles' at .99 store. itll give you a nice round backing like pipe insulation (probably the same stuff anyway) Good luck. always admired 'panel beaters' for their craftsmanship.
 
I ussually just stand there scratching my head... Paralized with indecision from all the contradicting posts I have read.
Then I open a beer...... Then another.... And another.... And so on until I get over the urge to tackle such a project...
 
You just need to get it close enough for a high build primer (which is fairly close).

Careful blocking of the primer is what makes a car straight.
 
I did some body work inside the engine bay of my cuda.... now I understand why painters charge so much. They can have it!
 
rod7515 said:
Ive been working on the front fenders of my 66 dart on and off for 6 weeks. Im no farther ahead tonight then I was at the beginning. Problem Im having isnt making surface smooth but its creating or should I say recreating the body lines. Heres the history, My dart is a 270, it had a body trim that went from front to rear about 3/4 of the way towards the top of the fenders and door and rear quarters. Ive removed them and will not be using them again so I had to weld the holes that are in the body to hold trim in place. Here is a pic of the fender.
View attachment 1715083199
Above the center between the 2 indents are the biggest issue. There are 3 places that you can see I have put filler into. My issue is remaking that body line both top and bottom. First I am struggling to find the exact line to follow. Ive been trying to stretch tape along the old line but its very hard to see that exact line since the line is rounded toward the indents. I can make the indented area flat but im struggling to then match the rounded body line to the flat area without going to high into the center area or to low into the flat indented area. I feel like all i do is make filler and sand it off and repeat! I tried using 180 grit and also 80 grit on sanding blocks both flat and rounded ones.
View attachment 1715083200 Above you can see I have it somewhat filled in but it was to low at the flat area of the indent. Below it looks like I have body lines but they werent straight. Any suggestions on a good method would be greatly appreciated.
View attachment 1715083201
I want to do this myself and not have to pay someone to do it but so far I am going nowhere fast!
Thanks Rod
Click to expand...
You're taking too much material back off. Work the front half of the fender as one piece. Coat the whole thing. Work the the higher section, flatter parts, then tape off the scallops and work the lower part/scallops. While sanding if you hit metal it's a high spot. Stop and recoat. I stay with 80g until I'm very close then skim coat with metal glaze, a partial knockdown with 80g to "de-skin" the plastic and onto 180g. Using too fine a paper too early will only waffle it up.

That's a pretty intricate piece for a newbie to tackle. I've been doing it for a long time and still use guidecoat on filler and tape bodylines to watch what I'm doing. I also start cutting when the filler is still a little soft as it speeds up the process. The quality of filler can make a difference. Some shrink and you can really chase your tail trying to make stuff nice.
 
like they say paint is 90% prep work.not for me,too much mud on,sand off.plus it takes years of experience to get it right.good to see you going at it.good luck
 
First let me say thanks to so many people that replied back to my post. Many great suggestions and tonight I went back to work on it. I think things went very well tonight as I had a different mind set to attack it with. So here is where I finished up tonight.
DSCN2542.JPG

DSCN2540.JPG
I spent 1 1/2 hrs tonight and felt as tho I made more progress then all my other nights combined. The biggest thing that kept running thru my mind tonight was to not rush it, dont take off to much at one time. So I sanded with a lot less pressure and was in no hurry and I think I made good progress. A few people threw out that need for primer last night. So my question is am I ready for primer? Also someone mentioned using an epoxy primer. Do I spray that before I used a high build primer or after. Last fall after I sanded the entire car to bare metal I just sprayed it with the high build primer. Now Ive had it covered with plastic since then but I did not use an epoxy primer on it. Does the high build primer have a shrink factor and how long after I spray that can I sand on it? If I need more filler once primer is on do I need to sand first or just apply on top of the primer? How many coats of primer can I put on and how much fill will it do because the 80 grit leaves sand marks. DO I sand with 180 before priming?
DSCN2543.JPG
DSCN2541.JPG

Again thanks for all the comments last night and feel free to add more tonight. I wont be able to work on it again now until Monday night. Thats one of the biggest problems I have is finding time! But I will be working more on this since fall is just around the corner and I would like to paint this fall before it gets to cold.
Thanks Again and feel free to comment. You wont hurt my feelings if you see something.
Thanks Rod

DSCN2543.JPG
 
My method is to put epoxy primer down when I have the body work close. I prefer it as the base coat.
Then I start blocking with guide coat and using mud where needed and topping it with high-build primer as
the work gets closer and closer. Lastly, a little glaze if needed and a good coat of sealer just before color.
It's not right or wrong, it's just the way I do body & paint.
You are on the right track and you want the right coating on that bare metal. I'm sure you will get other
input which may vary. A lot depends on your paint vendor and your budget as well.
Best of luck as you proceed!
 
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