Torsion bars for better handling; your experience?
One lane single track gravel is a freeway huh? Wow, you are delusional. Just because you can't see the 4" tall rocks sticking out of that road because the video is from a phone on the dash through the rain doesn't mean they aren't there. Because they are, I've killed oil pans on them before. I guess next time I'll have to put a GoPro on my front valance or something. I've broken spring eye bolts, wiped out UCA heim joints in 7k miles, and even busted a tubular LCA (ok, that was mostly a crappy weld). All on California roads.
You are right, suspension is always a compromise. If you want a squishy soft ride, you sacrifice handling. If you want great handling, you will not get a squishy soft OE muscle car ride, even if you set things up right. But if you run KYB's, you sacrifice both handling AND ride quality. My set up may not be for everyone, that's fine. I usually don't even recommend the 1.12's I run to people that drive on the street. But KYB's shouldn't be for anyone. I've run them, probably for close to 50k miles on my Challenger. In the past I've even told people on this forum they were ok (really sorry about that! :eek:). Then I bought real shocks, and found out just how awful KYB's really are. Just buy OE style Gabriel's, at least you'll get a soft ride. KYB's are for garbage cans, not cars.
Like I said, ride quality is subjective. I like my cars to handle, and I don't set them up that way because California has great roads. I also don't drive my car year round because I have to. I could pay cash for a brand new car tomorrow, and I could buy a fleet of beaters if I wanted to. I LIKE driving my car year round, even if that means driving it in poor conditions. It's a choice, not a necessity. You on the other hand prefer a soft ride, that's obvious. Don't blame it on your roads, just own it. Nothing wrong with that, you're happy sacrificing good handling for a softer ride.
I'm coming back at you in an open forum because this thread is for people choosing torsion bar sizes and suspension set ups. And the crap you are saying about running larger torsion bars simply isn't true, not if you actually set your suspension up properly, match components, etc. If I have to show that by providing evidence of the roads I drive, I will absolutely continue to do so. I don't care what you run. You want to run awful KYB's and think you need tiny torsion bars, go ahead. Don't believe me that your issue is those horrible shocks and not your road conditions, it doesn't hurt my back any at all. But don't crap on my set up because your car is set up poorly, even for a soft ride. And don't tell other people my set up won't work for your alleged lousy roads. Because you're wrong about that too, regardless of what your personal opinion may be.
Worst roads in the US by city. San Francisco and LA for the win (Federal Highway Administration 2016 report, analysis by TRIP).
These cities have the worst roads in America
Worst roads by state- California 3rd, Pennsylvania 6th (Ranked by % of roads in poor condition, from a 2017 report from the American Society of Civil Engineers)
The 8 states with the worst roads in the US
Worst roads by state- California 7, Pennsylvania 16 (ranked by percentage of roads in poor AND mediocre condition, Federal Highway Administration report, probably the same 2016 report as the first article)
Worst Roads in America
More TRIP report data, this time for rural roads, like your PA "goat paths". Well, the data says otherwise, and not by a small margin either. 2017 report, 2015 data... TRIP
One lane single track gravel is a freeway huh? Wow, you are delusional. Just because you can't see the 4" tall rocks sticking out of that road because the video is from a phone on the dash through the rain doesn't mean they aren't there. Because they are, I've killed oil pans on them before. I guess next time I'll have to put a GoPro on my front valance or something. I've broken spring eye bolts, wiped out UCA heim joints in 7k miles, and even busted a tubular LCA (ok, that was mostly a crappy weld). All on California roads.
You are right, suspension is always a compromise. If you want a squishy soft ride, you sacrifice handling. If you want great handling, you will not get a squishy soft OE muscle car ride, even if you set things up right. But if you run KYB's, you sacrifice both handling AND ride quality. My set up may not be for everyone, that's fine. I usually don't even recommend the 1.12's I run to people that drive on the street. But KYB's shouldn't be for anyone. I've run them, probably for close to 50k miles on my Challenger. In the past I've even told people on this forum they were ok (really sorry about that! :eek:). Then I bought real shocks, and found out just how awful KYB's really are. Just buy OE style Gabriel's, at least you'll get a soft ride. KYB's are for garbage cans, not cars.
Like I said, ride quality is subjective. I like my cars to handle, and I don't set them up that way because California has great roads. I also don't drive my car year round because I have to. I could pay cash for a brand new car tomorrow, and I could buy a fleet of beaters if I wanted to. I LIKE driving my car year round, even if that means driving it in poor conditions. It's a choice, not a necessity. You on the other hand prefer a soft ride, that's obvious. Don't blame it on your roads, just own it. Nothing wrong with that, you're happy sacrificing good handling for a softer ride.
I'm coming back at you in an open forum because this thread is for people choosing torsion bar sizes and suspension set ups. And the crap you are saying about running larger torsion bars simply isn't true, not if you actually set your suspension up properly, match components, etc. If I have to show that by providing evidence of the roads I drive, I will absolutely continue to do so. I don't care what you run. You want to run awful KYB's and think you need tiny torsion bars, go ahead. Don't believe me that your issue is those horrible shocks and not your road conditions, it doesn't hurt my back any at all. But don't crap on my set up because your car is set up poorly, even for a soft ride. And don't tell other people my set up won't work for your alleged lousy roads. Because you're wrong about that too, regardless of what your personal opinion may be.
Worst roads in the US by city. San Francisco and LA for the win (Federal Highway Administration 2016 report, analysis by TRIP).
These cities have the worst roads in America
Worst roads by state- California 3rd, Pennsylvania 6th (Ranked by % of roads in poor condition, from a 2017 report from the American Society of Civil Engineers)
The 8 states with the worst roads in the US
Worst roads by state- California 7, Pennsylvania 16 (ranked by percentage of roads in poor AND mediocre condition, Federal Highway Administration report, probably the same 2016 report as the first article)
Worst Roads in America
More TRIP report data, this time for rural roads, like your PA "goat paths". Well, the data says otherwise, and not by a small margin either. 2017 report, 2015 data... TRIP
