Getting power to the new shop

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Penstarpurist

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Had the power company out today to see where I am at on getting power from the power lines to the shop I'm having built. Had the load rate at 6 kw as I'm planning on having a bit of equipment going and wanted my hot tub up there and whatnot. Well they said they could only go 3kw from the road overhead, and I would have to install a 20' pole to intercept the wire half way. Or go primary underground from the nearest transformer and have them install a transformer on my property then to my building. The only way to get a 200 amp service to it, otherwise 115 amp overhead. The difference between the two being $8000 plus the cost of trenching, pole, pad, additional permits, pissed off neighbors when I right of way through their front yards. Anyone else have to go through this for power?
 
I was far enough from the road which is where the power was where I ended up with a transformer in order for 200 amp service . I had to have it for a cabin , shop and house . The 200 amp needs can make the price go up . You will have to buy a bigger pedestal too . In the end I am glad I did it and no regrets .
 
I just spoke with the power company again. They said they can bring it in 200 amp overhead, but it is how the electrician gets it from the meter to the shop. And it will be what they call dirty power, as it may have flickering upon equipment start up if it exceeds what's coming in as far as 3kw instead of 6kw. It will be a separate service from my home which is only a 100 amp service. They said if I can live with reduced kw that they will bring it in free, otherwise by the time I pay for a transformer and power from them plus permits, a company to trench 1000 foot ditch from where they would start at to my shop, then the electrician to lay conduit I would be knocking on probably 10 grand said and done just for power to run a personal use shop. I think I'm going to have to live with having the 3k. They said to them when they see 6k or 3k it means to them the same as hp. How much hp in electric motors will a person use. A lift is 3/4 hp, a welder is X hp, a grinder is X hp, a compressor is X hp. So, if the sum total exceeds 3kw (3hp) then there is a "dirty power" issue. Which can be remedied by a soft start unit.
 
OK but just how much are you going to use AT ANY GIVEN TIME? Is this going to be a busy shop, commercial? Or with "several" sons all doing simultaneous projects? If not the only big loads at once is likely to be the hot tub, the compressor, and "something else" like a welder.
 
I think it would be alot of my sons working on separate projects at one time. With me working on things here and there when not helping them at different times. We blow breakers all the time in our garage with their projects. Not uncommon to have the grinder, compressor and welder plugged in at one time for one project while the other one is running a separate grinder or a drill press.
 
Have you considered the possibility of upgrading your house panel to 200-300 Amps and running customer owner wire overhead or undergound w/duct to your shop?
Then your shop will be a sub panel.

Is you house service overhead or Undergound?

Another idea...If overhead, ask your power company if you can have two meter panels with two weatherheads next to each other. Then power company upgrades the OH service feed to handle combine load of both panels. You would just run a jumper from one weather head to the other. Then your garage panel/meter would have to OH or UG feed a garage sub-panel like in the first scenario I proposed.

The power company's and state public utilities commission have varying rules about how many meters per address or dwelling unit (cooking facilities), where meter can be, length of OH service wire, and maximum "dirty power" (voltage drop & flicker) for new service. Etc etc
 
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You won't like the 3K option. A household clothes dryer has a 5K heating element. It costs, but the 10,000' view seems to me would be to upgrade your house power to 200A service and subfeed the shop.
JMHO.
 
I think it would be alot of my sons working on separate projects at one time. With me working on things here and there when not helping them at different times. We blow breakers all the time in our garage with their projects. Not uncommon to have the grinder, compressor and welder plugged in at one time for one project while the other one is running a separate grinder or a drill press.
I would opt for the 200 amp service if you can pull it off. Not having enough juice is hard on the equipment. Arc stability while you're welding, a compressor trying to re-start etc. Lights, fans, fridge, a heater? It all starts to add up.
 
I will definitely look into going with either an upgraded service to my house then subpanel my shop or scrapping the money up to get transformer out there. I definitely don't want to lack power after putting all this time and money out to get the shop going.
 
My house is OH.

If the ultility will run 1/0 AT (alum. triplex), that will support 300A panel. Maybe more depending on thier specific rules. You will typically need a down guy on your weatherhead for that heavy wire. #4AT will typically support 200A.

A 100 amp panel will run a 1800 sq ft home with a/c in a hot so cal climate with continuous 100 deg days.

The machine motor load, welder load and car lift load don't get added altogether at 100%. Usually it's varying percentages. And that is a commercial shop method way of adding that stuff.

You have a residential garage. Just a large one. Does it have A/C in it? If so how many tons?
 
Don't forget, the wire and distance from your house panel to the sub panel will have a voltage drop and flicker (VD/FL) associated with it.

The power company is only responsible for VD/FL to the meter panel. What happens after that, is customer responsibility and under jurisdiction of county/city/state inspectors.
 
My electrician buddy is figuring it for running an a/c. I'm guessing about 3 ton. General Electric said it would still be a 200 amp service, and that it would not require a down guy, I'm not positive why they are saying that with 200 amp that it would only be 3kw. I understand that distance equals less end power, so that I'd probably where it comes from. As overall it's a minimum of 200 feet from the street then two feet more to the transformer.
 
My electrician buddy is figuring it for running an a/c. I'm guessing about 3 ton. General Electric said it would still be a 200 amp service, and that it would not require a down guy, I'm not positive why they are saying that with 200 amp that it would only be 3kw. I understand that distance equals less end power, so that I'd probably where it comes from. As overall it's a minimum of 200 feet from the street then two feet more to the transformer.

You mean down guy to a customer owned pole with a panel on your new garage?

I meant down guy on the existing 2-3ft high weather head pipe on your main house IF you upgraded that main panel to 300+ amps because it would need a new thicker service wire to supply 300A plus.

The 3kW they are figuring is not what you might think of as just adding machinery, A/C, lighting, appliance, etc load schedule. That 3kW is what they are using for thier VD/FL calc. There are some different methods/tools the power company uses to get to that "3kW" number.

A/C ton size is the big ticket item effecting VD/FL.

Is the service wire to your existing house directly fed from the transformer pole?
 
The power coming to my house is fed overhead from a line that travels about 200 ft to the transformer. So if I'm understanding it correctly it does come from the transformer directly. Yes, I meant a down guy going to the customer owned pole. I think I need to definitely ask the question about bringing in a larger 300 amp service to my house and then subpanel to my shop. Initially my buddy said it would be quite high in price, but the way it is sounding it may actually be a better cheaper alternative.
 
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Maybe I'm looking at the distance wrong. They must be going from where the street lines meet my driveway and not where the transformer is located on the power line. Going from where the power feeds from the street to where they want me to put a pole to a meter which is their stopping point is probably right at about 100 feet. Then from the meter to shop which is my electrician tying it is probably 80 feet. So, maybe what they put in is only 100 feet.
 
The power coming to my house is fed overhead from a line that travels about 200 ft to the transformer. So if I'm understanding it correctly it does come from the transformer directly. Yes, I meant a down guy going to the customer owned pole. I think I need to definitely ask the question about bringing in a larger 300 amp service to my house and then subpanel to my shop. Initially my buddy said it would be quite high in price, but the way it is sounding it may actually be a better cheaper alternative.

Wonder if he's thinking about copper UG wire from you house panel to garage sub panel? Many city/county/state codes call for copper customer owned feed wire for something like that. Just a guess.

Whereas the power company can run aluminum wire.
 
Maybe I'm looking at the distance wrong. They must be going from where the street lines meet my driveway and not where the transformer is located on the power line. Going from where the power feeds from the street to where they want me to put a pole to a meter which is their stopping point is probably right at about 100 feet. Then from the meter to shop which is my electrician tying it is probably 80 feet. So, maybe what they put in is only 100 feet.

What's the distance of the existing wire at your house to the very next pole it attaches to?
 
He is coming out tomorrow to go back through all the numbers to make sure that we are on the same page with pge. From where the power hits the Weatherhead on my roof to the closer pole would be probably 125/150 feet. But to the pole that has the nearest transformer probably closer to 150/175 feet. Which is the one they said they would feed from.
 
There is one meter vs two meters advantage and disadvantages.

each meter = separate bill = separate baseline delivery, surcharges, etc.

But if you are KWh rates are on a tier system, splitting the bills might keep both on a smaller tier.

You'll have to figure that. But if you use a lot of electricity with a way higher than average bill, two meter might net out better.

...Things to consider
 
He is coming out tomorrow to go back through all the numbers to make sure that we are on the same page with pge. From where the power hits the Weatherhead on my roof to the closer pole would be probably 125/150 feet. But to the pole that has the nearest transformer probably closer to 150/175 feet. Which is the one they said they would feed from.

Why I asked about the exsting service wire to your house distance is that it might factor in whether you can upgrade your single house panel to 201-400 amps. And sub panel feed whatever.

200A might be max possible upgrade to your existing house panel because of the length of your service wire distance. Something to ask the PGE person.

Notice in that pg 7-20 table 7-2 in that ESR link the requires 4" diameter mast for 201-400A vs 3" for 200A and smaller panels.


Hope I'm not throwing too much at you making it even tougher to make a decision.
 
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Lol, that is definitely alot of information to process. I am definitely going to ask more questions to pge. Going to see my buddy today and go through what the options are. At least now I can ask him about his thoughts on things like two meters, 3kw, 6kw, dirty power, down guys and more. Lol. I hope he doesn't shake his head and walk away.
 
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