Anyone using beehive valve springs on a slant-6?

-

csheehy

^Yup, that's me
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
112
Reaction score
55
Location
Providence, RI
I’m looking for engine component weights for a forged ('68) 225 slant-6 in a quest of reducing reciprocating mass and inertia [list below] - and am starting with valve springs. Beehive springs are commonly available for LA engines - surely one must cross-fit to the 6 - right?

A piston changes its direction of travel twice for each full crank rotation, and in doing so comes to a complete stop (briefly) each time. Therefore, reducing inertia (weight) can have a seat-of-the-pants feel in terms of throttle input and drivability - at all RPM ranges - not just at the top-end (although that's most often what comes to mind). None of these concerns and componentry are exotic; they are commonplace in even modern economy cars - it's an exotic thought, however, to apply this ideology to a 50-year-old slant-6 engine.

That said, I’m on a quest to find low-inertia parts with an emphasis on selecting the lightest-weight components without a sacrifice in strength or longevity (the list will be short - I know). Not interested in titanium.

Below is a list of other lightweight parts I'm searching for with an emphasis on selecting the lightest weight components without a sacrifice in strength or longevity (the list will be short - I know). Not interested in titanium.

If you have knowledge to any of the weights to the parts below - please state the part, vendor, and weights in grams please. No bathroom scale weights :) Use this converting lbs to grams - Google Search to convert pounds to grams.
  • Intake Valves 1.70" (OS-dia) - lightest - possibly with smaller dia stem of 7-8mm.
  • Exhaust Valves lightest 1.36" (STD-dia) - lightest - possibly with smaller dia stem like above
  • Valve Spring Retainers - lightest - steel - possibly narrowed or drilled
  • Pistons - lightest
  • Piston Pins - lightest
  • Piston Compression Rings - lightest - molly
  • Piston Oil Rings - lowest tension (the odd-ball in the bunch)
  • Push Rods - lightest
  • Mechanical Tappets - lightest
  • Harmonic Damper - lightest
  • Connecting Rods - lightest
  • Rod/Crank Bearings - lightest
  • Connecting Rod Bolts - lightest
This is an out-of-the-box idea - I've already heard I'm crazy and wasting my time with such nonsensical thinking for a slant-6 - which spurs me even more to make this work. Call me crazy... but I'll bet many of you here share the same passion (obsession) to make the slant better.

Thanks to all in advance!
-Chris
 
Last edited:
Buddy of mine built a hot S6 years ago. I know he used the GM 2.2 liter pistons and pins. Also used the stock dumbbell tappets. Also used a good low tension ring combo. I don't know abour beehives. Seems to me the slant really doesn't rev to warrant using that spring.
 
I don't know abour beehives. Seems to me the slant really doesn't rev to warrant using that spring.
Thanks for the info - I'm familiar with those but am looking for actual gram weight counts - I appreciate your reply though. Engines don't have to rev high to benefit from a reduction of reciprocating weight - a modern Toyota Corolla employs the same ideology. It was a race-only tactic back in the day.... I'm just trying to apply modern tactics to an old mill. Thanks again!
 
If you want the lightest factory stuff, you will need to look at the cast crank engines.
Using a digital medical scale, I weighed a cast crank (1979) at 63.2 lbs and a forged crank (1965) at 75.2 lbs.
the cast piston/rod assy was 2.6 lbs-no rings or bearings, while the forged crank set was right at 3 lbs (no rings or bearings)
I weighed the following on a cheap postage scale:
Rocker arm (solid lifter)-150 grams
dirty stock intake valve-103 grams
dirty stock exhaust valve-88 grams
clean 1.78 intake valve-111 grams
clean 1.51 exhaust valve-101 grams
dirty OE valve spring-72 grams
dirty OE retainer-25 grams
dirty OE keepers (pair)-4 grams
new cast crank rod bearing(pair)-42 grams
new forged crank rod bearing(pair)-58 grams

I'm jus' sayin'
 
Badvert65 - that's exactly the type of info I'm looking for!

I updated my question as my application is for a forged crank. So much appreciate your reply.
-Chris
 
FYI, the factory dampers seem to be the lightest available. The factory ones average about 5.2 lbs while the Romac (steel) race damper is listed at 7.2 lbs
 
the oversized valves I weighed are Ford application valves that can be used in a slant head. Besides being oversized, the stems are smaller diameter stem (11/32") I think the factory valves are 3/8" stems
 
Badvert65 - that's exactly the type of info I'm looking for!

I updated my question as my application is for a forged crank. So much appreciate your reply.
-Chris
You apparently didn't see or follow the link in the newest slant build on the Hot Rod site, what You're looking for is right there, though I don't believe they used beehives..
...You certainly could. Took a bunch of valve-side mass out going to late model Ford 2.3/2.5 valves....look to be 7mm stems, scroll down the slanty forum and the thread is
right there. BTW, a beehive is not just for "hi-revving" apps, it can maintain superior control over a broader cyclic spectrum....with the resultant increase in output. Many
OE apps today have conical/beehive style springs, and most never see the far side of 6500rpm, or 6000rpm for that matter.
 
Look at it this way csheehy, pretty much any spring combo You can use on a set of OE LA small block heads, You can use on a slanty. Even the 2.2/2.5 OHC Mopar 4cyls. can
use SB springs on them.
 
The beehives sound like a great design. They control harmonics and the like. Is it possible to take the factory spring specs and find a beehive that matches the same dimensions and specs? I realize the retainers need to match the springs and the keepers need to match the angle of retainers and the groove dimensions on the valve. Just my take.
 
Look at it this way csheehy, pretty much any spring combo You can use on a set of OE LA small block heads, You can use on a slanty. Even the 2.2/2.5 OHC Mopar 4cyls. can
use SB springs on them.
Surely can't be that easy - can it? Even the threads Dan notes seem as though they are still fiddling around with the right combo of parts and everyone seems NOT to be using Mopar springs. Would you by chance have any part numbers? I sure would be grateful...

BTW - took another look at the Hot Rod article - good stuff with some details worth banking. Thanks for the reminder.
 
The beehives sound like a great design. They control harmonics and the like. Is it possible to take the factory spring specs and find a beehive that matches the same dimensions and specs? I realize the retainers need to match the springs and the keepers need to match the angle of retainers and the groove dimensions on the valve. Just my take.
I'm hoping so!
 
To answer the original question: Yes, a Slant-6 head has been put together with beehive springs. See here. Also see here.
Thanks Dan - but the threads appear to be incomplete projects or not tested/reported on further (LS springs). I - always - do appreciate your input though.
 
Surely can't be that easy - can it? Even the threads Dan notes seem as though they are still fiddling around with the right combo of parts and everyone seems NOT to be using Mopar springs. Would you by chance have any part numbers? I sure would be grateful...

BTW - took another look at the Hot Rod article - good stuff with some details worth banking. Thanks for the reminder.
Slantys and SBs have the same installed height and retainers/keepers, it is as simple as that, all the springs Mopar recommended w/the Purple Shaft cams for the slanty
were SB springs. I was running the Red 340-HP singles w/dampers on Mine. As far as optimal/perfect, well, there is almost no such thing. But I haven't had a single issue
with Mopar's valvesprings that weren't caused by improper installation/application. Had a 340 6bbl turning 7200 routinely on the P3614542 dual springs w/dampers, 383
turning 6500 the same on the Green stripe Hemi singles w/dampers, I had 1.74/1.41 valves in My slanty and those P4120249 Red 340 springs, went waaaay above the
operating range on that engine(unwisely :D) and zero problems. Of course, those were springs made & purchased over a decade ago, hope there isn't some new "issue"
with current ones. I haven't heard of any....... The upshot is, any beehive suitable for that installed height & cam spec will work w/the correct retainers & keepers.
 
I'm hoping so!
You didn't spec a prospective camshaft, but just some food for thought, the 3.3/3.8L 60deg Mopar V-6 uses Beehives OE, the valves are 1.79/1.48" dia., and have 5/16"
stems. They are a bit too long however, 4.95/4.97", to the 4.78/4.80" OE's. But, depending on where the retainer grooves are, they may be able to be used. The installed
ht. on those are nominally .030" less than the /6's OE spec,..easily shimmed if needed.
 
-
Back
Top