73 valiant runs good then randomly dies

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First off, hello i'm new to these cars.
Now; I recently(couple months ago) acquired a 73 valiant. I know a little about cars and engines but I am in means an expert. This car came with a 225 and auto trans. On the engine is a clifford performance 6=8 carb/intake and dual headers package. It was on there when I purchased it and I know nothing about it or the history of it. I started by doing an oil change, replacing new wires, cap, and plugs, and redoing all old and corroded electrical connections.

So...This car has run really well for the last couple months that I've had it until two days ago. It randomly shut off at a stoplight. After a couple minutes of cranking with no start I finally got two people to help push me to the side when it started long enough to get to the side on its own then it died again. I thought about it and after looking around the ballast resistor was too hot to touch. I thought that was my problem so I bypassed it(jumper wires) and it started and ran perfect to the nearest auto parts store. I got a new resistor and the car ran perfect again. Then today same thing, and almost same spot on the road. I jumped out of the car and threw the jumper wires in again and it ran fine back to the house. Seems weird that the opposite conditions occurred when I thought the resistor went bad. Normally it would be start but not run with a bad resistor right?

So now I need help or suggestions as to why I am getting so much current that the resistor is burning up and is this my problem(electrical) or is something else more likely my problem? I do not know how to adjust the carb(but i'm sure I can figure it out easily) and have not checked timing or valve adjustment yet.
 
A hot resistor is normal. That is why they have a ceramic case. More than likely, the ignition control module is going bad. At the least, I would start there. FYI-Your original is likely a five pin module, most replacements are 4 pin. The 4 pin ones will work in place of the 5 pin ones.
 
If its been raining/humid also check the ignition rotor.
 
Well I’m in San Diego so I laugh at the idea rain or humidity.

And is there a way to check the module? Or just replace it? And what pin is eliminated in the four pin module?
 
^^ Second that. Had one in my Demon - good for about a half hour, then got hot & died.
 
First off, hello i'm new to these cars.
Now; I recently(couple months ago) acquired a 73 valiant. I know a little about cars and engines but I am in means an expert. This car came with a 225 and auto trans. On the engine is a clifford performance 6=8 carb/intake and dual headers package. It was on there when I purchased it and I know nothing about it or the history of it. I started by doing an oil change, replacing new wires, cap, and plugs, and redoing all old and corroded electrical connections.

So...This car has run really well for the last couple months that I've had it until two days ago. It randomly shut off at a stoplight. After a couple minutes of cranking with no start I finally got two people to help push me to the side when it started long enough to get to the side on its own then it died again. I thought about it and after looking around the ballast resistor was too hot to touch. I thought that was my problem so I bypassed it(jumper wires) and it started and ran perfect to the nearest auto parts store. I got a new resistor and the car ran perfect again. Then today same thing, and almost same spot on the road. I jumped out of the car and threw the jumper wires in again and it ran fine back to the house. Seems weird that the opposite conditions occurred when I thought the resistor went bad. Normally it would be start but not run with a bad resistor right?

So now I need help or suggestions as to why I am getting so much current that the resistor is burning up and is this my problem(electrical) or is something else more likely my problem? I do not know how to adjust the carb(but i'm sure I can figure it out easily) and have not checked timing or valve adjustment yet.
That’s crazy because my old slant 6 engine used to do the same thing. It would just die for no reason and if I waited 10-15 minutes it would start right back up like nothing happened. I replaced my battery terminal wires and it stopped doing it. I’m not sure if that’s your problem but sure was mine. Now that I installed a big block into the same car, I’ve had this issue one time at the gas station. Pulled up to get gas and when I was done the car would start back up for about 30 minutes.I replaced the ecu and haven’t had the problem since.
 
My power wagon would go 10 minutes,then stall.sit a few minutes and away it went. Rotor was burned through and as engine warmed up the moisture under cap would evaporate and i would lose spark through rotor to dist shaft.
Replaced rotor and its been good long time.
Gave me grief for weeks.
 
The HEI upgrade sounds interesting. Is that a common knowledge thing for slant 6's? Like if I took it to a mechanic would they know of it or could do it? Im leaving for a week and it would be cool to drop it off somewhere and have it done by the time I get back. Otherwise I could do it after I get back.
 
No, tossing the keys on the counter and going "Do the HEI upgrade" is not going to happen. That's why there's a detailed article I linked you to, going step-by-step on how it's done, what parts you need, etc.

Pretty much nothing on your '73 Valiant is common knowledge any more. Most of the knowledge that used to be common about these cars can no longer be found (in heads or in books) at most shops, which are equipped and staffed and trained for the last 25 years' cars. You will have to either do your own work, find a specialty shop, or bring in literature (and sometimes even parts) to let a regular shop try their hand at it. This is the kind of thing that goes with driving an old car.

You'll want to start by getting the three books described in As soon as you can, get the three books listed in this thread as quickly as you can.
 
IF YOU CAN JUMPER WIRE THE IGNITION AND IT RUNS then there is likely NOTHING WRONG with the ignition system, including the distributor, the module, or the ballast.

Might be bad connections in the (infamous) bulkhead connector, the ignition switch, or the ignition switch connector. ALSO Redfish has pointed this out several times........DOES YOUR car have a WHITE connector which hooks the engine harness to the rest of the firewall harness? This would be the ONLY white connector there in the engine bay. Look it over good, disconnect it, and examine the terminals.

YOU CAN DOWNLOAD the 73 service manual...........which came from the efforts of guys right here.......from MyMopar

MyMopar - Mopar Forums & Information - MyMopar Tools/Reference

From the same site above you can also get aftermarket, "somewhat simplified" wiring diagrams.

Also see the link below

Free service manuals

SlantSuxDan thinks he knows everything about these cars BUT THE FACT is that this "MAD" article is a VERY good overview on some inherent problems AND IS ONE WAY to deal with them THAT WORKS, inspite of his opinion that "they are a bunch of Chevy heads"

Catalog

Of special note in the article is the simplified diagram which shows SOME of the problem areas in these old girls

amp-ga18.jpg


The "list" of problem areas in no praticular order:

Damaged bulkhead terminals from years of corrosion and over amperage, as well as too-large alternators

Loose or defective terminals AT the ammeter, as well as internal problems in the ammeter itself

Bad terminals in the ignition switch connector

The ignition switch itself

In rare cases a bad "welded splice" In my lifetime, I can document about a dozen of these. The first one I PERSONALLY FOUND was in about 1970--71, in a friend's 69 Plymouth RR

The above mentioned "if you have it" the white engine harness connector
 
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If it came to my shop, i would be all over it.
But any other local shop i know of would be lost.
The industry has raised nothing but a bunch of parts changers.
I grew up fixing parts,as they were intended when manufactured.
Not one shop i know of will rebuild a carb. Will pull it and send it off,same with transmissions.
But i grew up broke, needed to figure this stuff out.
 
No, tossing the keys on the counter and going "Do the HEI upgrade" is not going to happen. That's why there's a detailed article I linked you to, going step-by-step on how it's done, what parts you need, etc.

Pretty much nothing on your '73 Valiant is common knowledge any more. Most of the knowledge that used to be common about these cars can no longer be found (in heads or in books) at most shops, which are equipped and staffed and trained for the last 25 years' cars. You will have to either do your own work, find a specialty shop, or bring in literature (and sometimes even parts) to let a regular shop try their hand at it. This is the kind of thing that goes with driving an old car.

You'll want to start by getting the three books described in As soon as you can, get the three books listed in this thread as quickly as you can.
When I first got my dart I took it to a shop to get the carburetor rebuilt, they had my car 2 months and went through 2 new carburetors saying they were bad and just ended up using the old carburetor and rebuilt it.. $500 dollars and 2 months later I get my car back and it still ran like ****. I was pissed!!! I bought books and joined car clubs and made friends with the same interest, learned as much as I could and ended up fixing it myself. I Did pull the slant 6 engine because it was a lead sled and installed a big block. Did all the work myself..it’s best to do it yourself so when something goes wrong you’ll have an idea how to fix it.
 
Ok, off topic here but FLAT RATE . Has screwed up the indresty, for most shops now it’s all about the bottom line , I started out in an hourly shop , then mangenent switched us all to flat rate ,so we all became parts changers because no body wanted to loose money rebuilding any thing because if it failed,leaked, quit working ,they would say it was our fault and then we were fixing it for free, so if we changed the failed part and it screwed up we got paid to change it ,again, coustomers that under stand that old **** breaks ,and cars are more complex now than ever are few and far between , still love my job ,I am working in an hourly shop again and really enjoy fixing things again ,not just changing parts, Flat rate also creates huge conflict in a shop , greed between the techs , I think that the quality also suffers , faster faster so you short cut . Like I said earlier nice to be hourly again so I can take pride in my work again . Cheers
 
No, tossing the keys on the counter and going "Do the HEI upgrade" is not going to happen. That's why there's a detailed article I linked you to, going step-by-step on how it's done, what parts you need, etc.

Pretty much nothing on your '73 Valiant is common knowledge any more. Most of the knowledge that used to be common about these cars can no longer be found (in heads or in books) at most shops, which are equipped and staffed and trained for the last 25 years' cars.
Trust Me when I tell You You're giving them way too much credit
on the equipped, staffed, & trained part, & I'm including Dealers.... SOME, not all, it's the lowest common denominator supported by a few who actually knows WTF is going
on.........................
 
No, tossing the keys on the counter and going "Do the HEI upgrade" is not going to happen. That's why there's a detailed article I linked you to, going step-by-step on how it's done, what parts you need, etc.

Pretty much nothing on your '73 Valiant is common knowledge any more. Most of the knowledge that used to be common about these cars can no longer be found (in heads or in books) at most shops, which are equipped and staffed and trained for the last 25 years' cars. You will have to either do your own work, find a specialty shop, or bring in literature (and sometimes even parts) to let a regular shop try their hand at it. This is the kind of thing that goes with driving an old car.

You'll want to start by getting the three books described in As soon as you can, get the three books listed in this thread as quickly as you can.

First, i’m not opposed to doing any work myself and I’m fully aware of most work needing to be done myself. I’ve built/rebuilt my old Jeep entirely by myself. It would simply be more efficient to return to a working and upgraded car and not waste time when there are people who do repairs to cars for a living. That is why I ASKED if it’s common enough knowledge to ask anyone to do it. Thanks.

Second, i’m not super familiar with the intricacies of the inner parts to a coil. Why would it stop working then start again if it’s bad? Wouldn’t it just be bad as in an open circuit?
 
The coil is a bunch of windings ,if they have one broken wire internally heat plays a huge part, gets hot expands quits ,cools down works again ,same goes for the ignition box , and distributor all play a part,sorry for the rant earlier.
 
Coils fail with heat, pickups,modules and electrical connectors too.
 
On a 73,the very first thing to do is disable the seat interlock switch.If everything then works, you are done.
But if not;there is a simple thing called a one-spark test. It has to be performed immediately at the time of failure.
It goes like this;
A) Do not turn the key off when it fails. Pop the hood, pull the coil wire out of the cap and near-ground it, about 1/4 inch to the engine (any unpainted part). You watch the gap while a helper turns the key off.Pay attention. You should observe exactly one spark, when the key-switch breaks the circuit. You can cycle the key as many times as you like, and there should always be just the one spark. If you have the spark as described, then theoretically there is nothing wrong with the primary ignition system. The following parts are all working; the coil, the ECU,the ignition switch and everything between it and the battery,the ballast resistor, and all the connections. Pretty cool eh? Only the pick-up is still in question, and the secondary system.That's the one-spark test, and it becomes the tool for further testing.
B) To test the pick-up; remove the distributor cap. You will have to draw an iron object across the pole piece of the magnetic pick up. every time the iron passes thru the field, a spark should occur. The easiest way to do this is to position a reluctor vane at the leading edge of the pole piece, by manually turning the crankshaft until the alignment occurs.Then with the key on and the coilwire still near-grounded, you rotate,(using the rotor), the a reluctor-vane past the pole piece. A spark should occur every time the vane passes by the pole, in either direction.
These tests should only take a few minutes.
You should practice them, when you know the engine will run, to familiarize yourself with the procedure.
C) Now that brings us to the secondary system, which is everything else from the cap to the plugs, and those you have replaced,already.
D) But, what if at A above, it fails the one-spark test. Well the first thing usually is to look for a voltage loss. So that means you have to carry a VOM or test light in the car. But even easier is to clean the damyn grounds. The ECU will not work if the case is not grounded back to the battery. That means all points between the ECU and battery must be cleaned. I think there are 3 or perhaps 4 points. Then repeat the one-spark test. That Ecu could be leaking it's sealer goo all over the apron and that's no never mind; it can continue to fire the coil for thousands of miles and many years,pay it no attention.The pick-up does not have a ground and no attempt should be made to install one, and the D itself does not need to be grounded. In fact, you can pull it right out of the engine, spin the driveshaft and watch a stream of sparks issue from the near-grounded coilwire.Same for the coil, the case needs no ground.
E) but say it still won't fire.And you have replaced a HOT ecu, indicating by logic that it is seeing voltage. Turn the key off.The next thing I would do, (if no VOM is available) is to cool the coil off, and retest the one spark deal. This is usually done by flooding it with water. A little messy but water evaporates. This will take more than a glass of water splashed on it. The electrical part inside is divorced from the metal case, and a cooling oil bath carries heat between them, the case being the heat-sink. If your coil is mounted upside down,and it appears to be leaking it's oil away, just replace it, it's gonna cause trouble,lol. But say it's physically OK, then we have to cool the electrical part inside. So you trickle water on the case. The cooling case absorbs the heat from the oil, allowing the hot electrical parts to transfer more heat into the oil. Eventually all the heat will transfer to the water flowing over the case. But you don't have to wait that long.Just trickle a quart or two of water over it and back to the one-spark test.If the spark returns badaboom!, crank it and look for a stream of sparks. If you get it, yore work of diagnoses is done.The coil appears to be bad. Wait...appears to be? wel you don't know if you cooled the coil, or if it had previously cooled to just below the failure point,just before your test.Right? So now you have a choice; just replace the coil. Or,get that coil hot again,until the engine dies, and this time go straight to the cooling water test.
F) but if cooling the coil makes no difference, then you are gonna have to prove the coil is getting power.I always do this first (as you did with the power-jumper) cuz VOMs are getting to be so cheap now, I have several and there is always one in my classic cars. But until this moment, it hasn't been an absolute requirement in the diagnostic. So,hook it up and, if you get a little under battery voltage with the key on and a cold ballast yer good to go. Or are you? No you have to wait until the ballast gets hot and retest. Leave the VOM in circuit and watch the voltage drop as the resistor heats up, which might take three minutes or more. The voltage should drop continuously and drop down to somewhere around 8 volts. Close enough. Now turn the key to "start"and the voltage should pop back up to near battery voltage. If you get a pass, then remove the factory wire from the Minus side, turn the key to "run" and check the voltage there. It should be a hair less than the plus side, maybe a volt less. The point is it should NOT be Zero. If it is, throw that coil away. Replace it and back to the one-spark test.
G) But say the coil passes all the tests and the voltages are good. Now you have 2 more choices. Is it the ECU or is it the pick-up. Back in B) above we did a quick test of the pick up.Now we are gonna do an electrical test on it, cuz pick-ups are cheaper than ECUs. The pick up can be tested using the AC setting on your VOM, You are looking for less than 2 volts AC ouput during manipulation of the magnetic field at the pole piece.The pick-up is an electrical signal generator, depending on the disruption of the magnetic field by the iron reluctor or any iron object passing thru the field, to generate it's little signal.You can do this with the same set up as in B) by just disconnecting the connector and probing the pick-up side.
This test works best with an analog-type VOM, because you can see the voltage rising and falling as the iron passes over the pole. If you are using a screwdriver,it will slam onto the magnet as you wave it over, don't panic, just continue the stroking, it makes no difference. It works best when the vane is within a specified range of the polepiece. The usual range is .008 to .011. I have examined running cars, and I have seen gaps from zero to .030. So this gap is perhaps not as critical as some mechanics will say, but I'm sure Mopar has a reason for the spec, and it's easy to reset. If using a digital VOM, the digital numbers will flash by in rapid succession from zero to peak and back, so if you see something close to 1 volt, and flashing numbers, you at least know it's doing something. And if it is, that just leaves the ECU
H) you can't test an ECU except by process of elimination and substitution. Which is why I used to always carry a spare. But in ten years I never saw a failure, so eventually I threw the spare back in the box with the others.
But you can test the wiring to and from it. Now you can do that two ways. You can test the appropriate terminals in the connector for the correct range of voltages to it with a HOT ballast, And you can test them for continuity between the ends. If the connector proves good, you only have the ECU left to blame.
On your car, you can temporarily sub in ANY other ECU, from any other car, and back to the one-spark test. If it passes that, then the cranking test. And if it passes that. then you can order up a new one, or just leave the tester in there,lol.
Parting shots;
J) You gotta remember, this is not rocket-science. There are exactly 5 parts to this test; the coil, the pick-up, the ballast, the ECU, and all the wiring,including the ECU ground. Only the ECU is non-testable. And finally, as someone else already mentioned, I think, the cure on these old cars is all too-often in the ground or the wiring. But I have to give you credit with your power jumper. You pretty much proved a problem between the input side of the HOT ballast and the coil, or the coil itself,lol.
K) BTW, The dual ballast has ,well, dual resistors.One steps the voltage down to the coil in run. The other is a power reducer to the ECU. So one resistor can fail, and the dang thing can still get hot,fooling you into thinking it's working.The block gets its power source from the same blue wire, and you can see the little jumper right there. So if one side gets power, logic says the other will too,lol. But logic ignores the stoopid spade connectors, and 45 years of corrosion and atmospheric attack on the copper. So this is one of the biggest sources of troubles..............
besides that stoopid seat-belt interlock device.

I hope I got it all.
 
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On a 73,the very first thing to do is disable the seat interlock switch

No '73s were built with the seatbelt/ignition interlock. That mess happened in '74 and was gone by '75 (after enough Congressmen bought new '74 cars with the infuriating interlock system).
 
Well thanks for all that troubleshooting information. The hard part is that I haven't been able to recreate what happens. I will poke around more when I get a chance.

And as far as the HEI conversion goes, how can I identify the exact distributor I have other than the most common answer of "depends on the year"?

Thanks for all the help too everyone.
 
Your distributor, if it is original, will have a tag on the side with the part number on it. You can keep your present distributor (though it may contain the problem part) or pick up a brand-new Chrysler unit as described in the linked HEI upgrade article.

One way of diagnosing problems like yours is to use a hair dryer or incandescent shop light to heat up the ignition module (good and hot!) before trying to start the car from cold. If the bad behaviour now happens even when cold, you found the problem. If not, try it again on the ignition coil. If not, try it again on the pickup coil in the distributor (remove cap and rotor to get clear access to preheat the component).
 
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