The MOPAR power myth?

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ALL brands have their downsides, and certain aspects change over the years. Main reason I ended up "Mopar" was that before I joined the Navy in 68, I broke a lot of Chevy ****. That was before the Muncie "rock crusher" was commonly available, but I wasn't even making that much HP then. A mild 327 fer chriss sakes

"Turns out" the Ferd gearboxes/ rear axles were pretty strong, too. I didn't know that in 68, or I might have bought one of THEM

My first Mopar stuff was B body, B/ RB engines. NOTHING wrong with those, especially today with great head options.

You might think about this: GM never put a Dana in any production car
 
Wow !! You guys spend more on your engines than I have budgeted for the whole car..Of course you could definitely drag my *** on the street or at the track.:steering::steering:

Not me, I can tell you that.
I started as a 12 year old with a few old broke down cars and trucks that the locals gave me just to get rid of them (had 6 by the time I was 15) and did pretty much all the work myself.
If I even needed a quart of oil I had to decide what to take it out of, because I didn't have any money and was 15 miles from the nearest place to buy it even if I did have the money.
The only time I was really able to get parts was at lunch time from school because I rode the bus to that town 15 miles away.

My Dad had tools but he was at work all the time, so being the oldest kid in the family I had to learn to do things myself.
Sometimes even things like using an old 2x4 to pry behind a tire to move a car or truck where I needed it to be. (pry, steer, pry steer)
Then when I did get one all fixed and drivable I would come home from school and find it gone because the family needed the money.

Never having any cash was a killer, so I had to learn to diagnose and make things work, because there was no "throw parts at it" option.
Sometimes it would take me months to find some small part I needed, and then give up my lunch money for weeks at a time for it.
Just the other day I was thinking back on some of the stupid **** we did on old tires out of each others back yards.

I suppose growing up doing things that way made it where now if I have to move an engine hoist with a motor hanging on it in gravel it's not to big a deal to manage myself.:D
 
Power or not, my 1966 360 powered Dart, I don't see myself at a cruise in or a car show...
 
I almost bought a 69 396 SS 4sp Chevelle once.... But he wanted $800 and there was a dent in the quarter panel. Too much for a dented car!
 
GM just had a different philosophy regarding drivelines...while Chrysler engineers anticipated racing abuse and built accordingly, GM was ruled by accountants and built just strong enough to survive the warranty period with normal driving. They saved pennies per car, then paid for it later with broken drivelines.
 
I grew up with "MOPAR makes power."

When I got my first one i figured I would keep it all Ma, but now I just don't know.

The rear ends ain't great, so swap a 8 3/4 or 9" or 60.
Trans, ehhh.... Also just ok...

Let's be honest the bottom end, oiling, geometry, and heads are ehh....not the best...

The cost is stupid, so what the hell....

I'm 8K Into my 512 and it's not done. Aint even seen the machine shop yet....

Why?
Cost per HP just don't add up.

The dark side is calling....
Mopar meant power with what they came with off the showroom floor, for the range that most OE's were expected to perform in. Bowtie parts abound because they were
mandatory before they could compete with stock Smallblock competiton, Cleveland Fords being the cylinder head champs in the SB world, Mopars had superior valvetrains
(They weren't the only) compared to Chebby and can accept lots of cam w/o buying parts just to do it. Chevy's central main priority oil galley is the only real superior
feature it has in the SB realm. When it comes to Bigblocks, Yeah, flow-wise they are not the best,..but they are as reliable as anything out there period. Mopar skipped
going any further on the BB because, well HEMI. You're building a 512 from parts and You're complaining about the price, that isn't Mopars fault, at least not the One
from 40 years ago.
"The rear ends ain't great".....what, a 7.25"? You bought a car with a 7.25" rear and started building a 512 to put in front of it & are disappointed it won't hold up?!?
I have brand X friends, They've broken 10 bolt Chebby rears with 14 second automatic 350's, WTF are You talking about? ALL brands have economy duty rears that
"ain't great". Trannys do have their limits, there are brand X ones that are better, but race-prepping any of them costs $$$$ and I don't "price point" them so I can't
say what relative build costs are. I imagine an A727, C6, & THM400 all cost within' a few hundred fully prepped for a built 512ci mill.
If You want to pay Your way to fast w/o putting in the work to make it happen, crate engines are out there, but for Mopar it is getting smaller selection wise. A former
co-worker bought a "great deal" crate BB Chebby, cheap as dirt by God, 11 sec capable in His mid '70's Nova. Cammed it small to run reliably in the low 12's, solid cam,
blew up after 3 seasons. Oh, and after tanking the 12 bolt rear the 2nd time, He put a 9" Ford in it.
It seems that You think the HP/Reliability Fairies will follow Us because of the history of "Mopar Power".............................................things have changed 40yrs. later
.............or 20yrs. for that matter..........................................
 
Found that out myself with a 7 1/4 I was 16 and my dad let me build a 440, just stock, 906 heads 2.02 intake valves, torker 2, hooker castler headers 2" prim. Yeah that rear end did t last long behind that lol so we went to the junk yard around here she you still can find these cars and found a 8 3/4 open diff. But didn't have any problems after that.
 
I guess my $3500.00 600 hp 440 is crazy money. Can you build a 600 hp small block chevy for that? Last bracket motor before this one ran ran 10.80s and went 11 yrs. racing. Still in the corner of the garage for back up motor. I had $2000 in it. Don't see many chevys do that around here.
 
Mopar meant power with what they came with off the showroom floor, for the range that most OE's were expected to perform in. Bowtie parts abound because they were
mandatory before they could compete with stock Smallblock competiton, Cleveland Fords being the cylinder head champs in the SB world, Mopars had superior valvetrains
(They weren't the only) compared to Chebby and can accept lots of cam w/o buying parts just to do it. Chevy's central main priority oil galley is the only real superior
feature it has in the SB realm. When it comes to Bigblocks, Yeah, flow-wise they are not the best,..but they are as reliable as anything out there period. Mopar skipped
going any further on the BB because, well HEMI. You're building a 512 from parts and You're complaining about the price, that isn't Mopars fault, at least not the One
from 40 years ago.
"The rear ends ain't great".....what, a 7.25"? You bought a car with a 7.25" rear and started building a 512 to put in front of it & are disappointed it won't hold up?!?
I have brand X friends, They've broken 10 bolt Chebby rears with 14 second automatic 350's, WTF are You talking about? ALL brands have economy duty rears that
"ain't great". Trannys do have their limits, there are brand X ones that are better, but race-prepping any of them costs $$$$ and I don't "price point" them so I can't
say what relative build costs are. I imagine an A727, C6, & THM400 all cost within' a few hundred fully prepped for a built 512ci mill.
If You want to pay Your way to fast w/o putting in the work to make it happen, crate engines are out there, but for Mopar it is getting smaller selection wise. A former
co-worker bought a "great deal" crate BB Chebby, cheap as dirt by God, 11 sec capable in His mid '70's Nova. Cammed it small to run reliably in the low 12's, solid cam,
blew up after 3 seasons. Oh, and after tanking the 12 bolt rear the 2nd time, He put a 9" Ford in it.
It seems that You think the HP/Reliability Fairies will follow Us because of the history of "Mopar Power".............................................things have changed 40yrs. later
.............or 20yrs. for that matter..........................................

Since we're giving a serious answer to the original question, here's one builder's perspective..

quote "Shrinker":
<snip> Ohh Ok, what i mean is you dont have to do much to make power from the factory design. Chevs have to be hotted up with aftermarket heads to get close a Chrysler. I'm sure some chevs heads must bite soon.
Chryslers can have a cam change and extractors and thats all you need to make a powerful car. The cams don't need to be as big as a chev because you dont have to get around that rediculous pushrod pinch caused by the stupid unneeded 5 head bolt arrangement thats a throwback to the 50's way of thinking.
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<snip> Are you talking stock heads or racing ones/ It doesnt matter from the head point of view as once you go to racing heads then its just a racing head like any other. Stock heads; well you just flow check em and go from there BUT the big thing about Chrysler motors is their stroke rod ratio. They have the theoretically correct 1.85 or get close to it most designs. Fords and Chevs are short ratio engines (unless your using racing blocks etc).
...

With the Chrysler engine having a long rod ratio the piston dwells for longer at TDC so the opportunity for a dished piston is there for a different reason than a Chev etc. Dishing the piston gives a better chamber because the flame kernel is further way from metal in every direction so thats good.
It makes the plug more central when viewed from the side if you get what I mean. But the reason for doing it with a Chrysler is different to a Chev. Doing it in the Chrysler long rod engine is not just that the piston clearance is there but its to create a longer flame path before the flame extinguishes against a surface while the rod is dwelling at TDC. 1.8 stroke rod ratio motors are different gas production to shorter rod ratio motors. They have more complete burn with less HC wastage. they are awesome to work with, unfortunately theres not much Chrysler racing stuff here in Oz.​
full posts at Motorsports Village • View topic - Initial timing
 
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My dirt late model stuff is all Chevy. I hate to admit it but the power, parts, knowledge and budget make it very tempting. But then every single hot rod guy has a “ Chevelle SuperSport”. It’s just so bland. We do it because we are different.
 
I have a Chevy friend that is a pretty serious racer. He can make the small blocks sing. He likes to boast about his 6" rod motors. He just about **** when I told him my 273 was a 6"+ rod motor.
 
I’m older than crap at almost 62 and all I can say is I embarrass chevies and Ford every week but all I wish were that the other make LOVERS on this site switch websites after you make the choices you make. I’m ne here but if I stepped over the line. Delete me. Mopar lover or I will give up Racing
 
Who gives a flip if it costs more to build equivalent power with a Mopar compared to something every Tom, Dick, or Harry and their brother has. No different than riding a Ducati and paying for it, vs. riding a Honda. Just fork over the cash and get to it, no complaining! :poke::thumbsup:
 
I have a Chevy friend that is a pretty serious racer. He can make the small blocks sing. He likes to boast about his 6" rod motors. He just about **** when I told him my 273 was a 6"+ rod motor.
Another one is “ I have 18 degree heads” .... join the party a little late boss? Chevy absolutely got a few things right. I can change a water pump in 1/4 the time on a Chevy vs a Chrysler small block. They also were late to the table on bearings in their engines too! Crazy to think about that.
 
I have a Chevy friend that is a pretty serious racer. He can make the small blocks sing. He likes to boast about his 6" rod motors. He just about **** when I told him my 273 was a 6"+ rod motor.

There's a reason why Mopars have just about the longest timing chain in the industry, LOL
 
always had love for 340 dusters but dad drug home a chevelle when i was 14 said i could drive it as is or fix it up...so i built it, drove it, loved it,5 motors and a pick up load of turbo350 transmissions 3 years later wire shorted out burnt it to ground! done lost my license anyway so hole neighborhood was kinda happy. fast forward 2 years im gettin my license back, gotta junky ol chevelle i swamped motor outta burnt one and got running, dad n g'pa went nuts,..wont keep them license a week boy!!!! been helping my uncle all summer so g'pa talked him into letting me drive one of his cars so he put me in his 79 volary roadrunner, well i was hooked!! sound of that starter., 360 police package...people flocking to it erry where ya pull up, most just wantin to know what it was!! did by a runner slowmaro a month later to get on threw collage on, mopar fever had the hemi orange 340 duster in my drive way soon after!!

stock la mopar vs stock lt1 350 chebby,...mopar block take 600 hp chevy wont,..cant stroke chevy but to 3.75 and gotta buy right parts to grind to fit, la go 4.250 stroke! shaft mount rockers!!! no stud mount ever come close! 18 degree heads stock on mopar,..take lotta bucks to get that mouse equal to a stock la! not even gonna get into stock power to weight rato's but dont call them heavy chevys for nuttun! ford,..better idea i ant ever figured out, do make a fine rear end tho'
 
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Cope man you really stirred up the Indians! LOL
I know you've done all that work on the cage and all the custom metal fabrication with all the Mopar symbols in them. I know you don't want those to be bow tie symbols? come on man! I know you're just messing with these guys, now you get back to work and get this thing fired up! summer is going to be here soon!
 
I almost bought a 69 396 SS 4sp Chevelle once.... But he wanted $800 and there was a dent in the quarter panel. Too much for a dented car!
I had a friend that had a 1963/ falcon futura that waxed a 396 chevelle in low and second gear, the guy couldn`t believe it. There were 4 people in each car. no brag, just fact! Wasn`t my car either.
 
Yeah... I traded a guy a ATK dirtbike for a 70 Monte with a 454 that needed rebuilt.
Threw a lot of money and parts at that Monte but it just never ran aywhere near my Chargers 440 level. Course being a chevy it had 2.56 gears or some stupid high ratio.
 
I grew up with "MOPAR makes power."
When I got my first one i figured I would keep it all Ma, but now I just don't know.
The rear ends ain't great, so swap a 8 3/4 or 9" or 60.
Trans, ehhh.... Also just ok...
Let's be honest the bottom end, oiling, geometry, and heads are ehh....not the best...
The cost is stupid, so what the hell....
I'm 8K Into my 512 and it's not done. Aint even seen the machine shop yet....
Why?
Cost per HP just don't add up.
The dark side is calling....

I agree with many who've said to do what makes you happy. It's excellent advice, take it.
Keep in mind; if there's a will, there's a way (they say). So, if you want it bad enough, make it happen. I don't go out, I don't do fancy holidays and I drive an old minivan... there's nothing fancy in my life... except for my priorities!
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Never say never.
 
I just like Mopars the best, and don't care what they cost to build. I don't care how long it takes, I'm patient and can wait. I don't get carried away building something I don't need, and will say for the record, Mopars cost more, but in the end hold their value better than Fords or Chevies!
 
A good friend of mine (even though he is a Chevy only guy) made a remark to me that he thought about upgrading his heads with 18* stuff. He asked my opinion and any thoughts on the matter.

I said “Great idea to upgrade to what was stock on a Mopar.”

Boy he nearly chit the bed with anger!
I had to tell him not to ask questions he knew the answer to, coming from me.

I finished twisting him up with, “Don’t get upset over your inferior Chevy stuff. Just spend tons of money for the upgrade and be done with it or learn to live with the 23* stuff & make it work for you.”

For the first time since I knew him (15 years old) I thought I might actually get my head reclocked.
 
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