61 valiant turn signals ??

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furyfrank

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Found out that my rear right turn signal and brake light do not work, tail light is fine. The car has a third brake light added which does not work either way. The strange part is when you put the turn signal on the front one works fine. So does anyone have any answers ?:realcrazy::wtf:
 
The turn signal switch in the steering column has a bunch of wires. 2 for the front 2 turn signals and 2 more for the rear 2 signals. This is so the rear can be shared with brake lamps. 4 wires to 4 lamps. It's not uncommon to loose one of the 4 in a failed signal switch.
In a different post you mentioned a 3rd add on brake lamp. You'll need to finger out how/where that was tied in. We can't know if it was wired properly. I'll assume the OEM wires were cut and spliced somewhere.
 
Thank for all the reply's. But if the turn signal switch was bad the third brake light should work off the drivers side brake light and turn signal . So I am thinking is is in the third brake light. But I am open to all reply's .
 
Not to sound stupid but you did not say if the bulb was good. The tail light runs on a different filament.
 
I'll guess again... the add on 3rd brake lamp kits would come with a logic module. If both brake lamps came on it would come on also. It would not come on with power from only 1 side. That so it doesn't blink with a turn signal. That was the purpose of the logic module. It should not be capable of interrupting one or both brake lamps though. Half assed cut and taped wires at install certainly could.
 
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Not to sound stupid but you did not say if the bulb was good. The tail light runs on a different filament.
I just automatically assume the person had tried a new bulb and more before seeking help.
 
I'll guess again... the add on 3rd brake lamp kits would come with a logic module. If both brake lamps came on it would come on also. It would not come on with power from only 1 side. That so it doesn't blink with a turn signal. That was the purpose of the logic module. It should not be capable of interrupting one or both brake lamps though. Half assed cut and taped wires at install certainly could.
So where would the logic module likely to be located ?
 
Don't chase your tail trying to find the problem in the add-on central stop light. That's not causing your problem. The reason why the central stop light isn't coming on is because the logic circuit built into it detects power on only the one stop light (left or right) that's working. That one-side-only condition is what the logic circuit uses to decide you're using turn signals rather than stepping on the brake (therefore not lighting up the central stop light). These logic circuits are notoriously failure-prone, which is why it's better to skip 'em and just run wire from a good central stop light all the way to the stop light switch (like this).

But your central stop light will probably start working again when you fix the actual problem, which is a faulty turn signal switch (or, less likely, a faulty wire from the turn signal switch to the right stop light). The power for the stop lights goes through the turn signal switch; that's what allows the one filament on each side to serve both stop light and turn signal functions. Failure in the T/S switch takes out both functions on one side. The reason why the taillight still works on that side is it's a different filament (2 filaments, 1 bulb) fed by a different wire connected to a different circuit.

The '60-'61 turn signal switch is a lot more complicated and expensive than the '62-up switches, and retrofitment isn't easily possible without swapping the whole steering column. The '60-'61 turn signal switch shows up from time to time on eBay—see for yourself.
 
Don't chase your tail trying to find the problem in the add-on central stop light. That's not causing your problem. The reason why the central stop light isn't coming on is because the logic circuit built into it detects power on only the one stop light (left or right) that's working. That one-side-only condition is what the logic circuit uses to decide you're using turn signals rather than stepping on the brake (therefore not lighting up the central stop light). These logic circuits are notoriously failure-prone, which is why it's better to skip 'em and just run wire from a good central stop light all the way to the stop light switch (like this).

But your central stop light will probably start working again when you fix the actual problem, which is a faulty turn signal switch (or, less likely, a faulty wire from the turn signal switch to the right stop light). The power for the stop lights goes through the turn signal switch; that's what allows the one filament on each side to serve both stop light and turn signal functions. Failure in the T/S switch takes out both functions on one side. The reason why the taillight still works on that side is it's a different filament (2 filaments, 1 bulb) fed by a different wire connected to a different circuit.

The '60-'61 turn signal switch is a lot more complicated and expensive than the '62-up switches, and retrofitment isn't easily possible without swapping the whole steering column. The '60-'61 turn signal switch shows up from time to time on eBay—see for yourself.
Thanks for the reply, the turn signal switch on this car works perfect no slop and even cancels itself when turning. I am not so concerned with the turn signal as to the brake working. Will mess around and before I drive the car I will jumper from the left to the right light stop light.
 
Thanks for the reply, the turn signal switch on this car works perfect

No, it clearly does not.

no slop and even cancels itself when turning.

That's nice, but the switch is electrically faulty, which is why your light on the one side of the car isn't working.

I am not so concerned with the turn signal

Mister Horse, the water is right up ☝︎there ☝︎in post № 9. It's a pity you don't seem to want to drink it, but that's your choice. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

as to the brake working. Will mess around and before I drive the car I will jumper from the left to the right light stop light.

Think carefully about that for a minute and maybe you'll figure out why that's a dumb idea.

One thing about old cars: sometimes they break in ways that you'd rather they didn't. No amount of being "not so concerned" with the broken part will make the car change its mind and break for you in a way that you'd prefer.
 
No, it clearly does not.



That's nice, but the switch is electrically faulty, which is why your light on the one side of the car isn't working.



Mister Horse, the water is right up ☝︎there ☝︎in post № 9. It's a pity you don't seem to want to drink it, but that's your choice. ¯

Think carefully about that for a minute and maybe you'll figure out why that's a dumb idea.

One thing about old cars: sometimes they break in ways that you'd rather they didn't. No amount of being "not so concerned" with the broken part will make the car change its mind and break for you in a way that you'd prefer.
As i said the right front works perfectly but the rear does not. And why not jumper the right side to the left so I can have brake lights when driving ?
 
As i said the right front works perfectly but the rear does not.

Your turn signal switch is faulty. It'll keep on being faulty whether or not you eventually come to understand how it works (and why it doesn't). There are separate power paths within the switch for _each_ turn signal (left front, left rear; right front, right rear). There have to be, because otherwise the front turn signals would both light up solid whenever you step on the brake. Again, power for the stop lights goes through the turn signal switch, and the two wires that run from the turn signal switch to the rear lamps carry steady voltage for the stop light function and pulsed voltage for the turn signal function to the same filament in the same bulb on each side.

(But maybe if you ask the question a couple dozen more times, the answer will change, though, LOL.)

And why not jumper the right side to the left so I can have brake lights when driving ?

That'd be telling. Keep thinking about it. The answer's right here in this post.
 
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Your turn signal switch is faulty. It'll keep on being faulty whether or not you eventually come to understand how it works (and why it doesn't). There are separate power paths within the switch for _each_ turn signal (left front, left rear; right front, right rear). There have to be, because otherwise the front turn signals would both light up solid whenever you step on the brake. Again, power for the stop lights goes through the turn signal switch, and the two wires that run from the turn signal switch to the rear lamps carry steady voltage for the stop light function and pulsed voltage for the turn signal function to the same filament in the same bulb on each side.

(But maybe if you ask the question a couple dozen more times, the answer will change, though, LOL.)



That'd be telling. Keep thinking about it. The answer's right here in this post.
As i said the right front works perfectly but the rear does not. And why not jumper the right side to the left so I can have brake lights when driving ?
Not to jump in and tag up on you frank BUT.... I'm going to do just that . You should do well to listen to what slantsixdan is saying ( and saying very wisely I might add) . He is dead on with his advice ,which I'm going to assume , comes from the neccesary experience and A WORKING KNOWLEDGE OF ELECTRICAL CIRCUITS...
I myself , being a 4 time recertified ASE. Master tech and advanced specialist in diagnostics and a service professional for 27 years could not have pointed u in a more exact direction.
Now it's strictly up to you if you want to accept this or ANY of the FANTASTIC amount of wisdom / assistance available here on FABO... Basically an endless amount IMHO.
That being said , your problem is pretty basic and simply diagnosed if you take slantsixdan's advice ( after all , YOU asked the question ... Correct?)
I'm not trying to be a dick , but.... Discounting good advice without employing it OR posing a logical alternative is a bit frustrating is all I'm saying .
So test the TS switch and/or find the open in power wire to the affected lamp and all will be just peachy !!!
Have a great upcoming week tho my friend!
 
So where would the logic module likely to be located ?
Wherever the installer chose to put it. I suggest you find it, check/repair any cut, twisted and taped wires. I would just completely disconnect the add on crap and properly repair my wiring. It may not be the fault but we do want to rule it out. Buy yourself a 12 volt test lamp. Follow diagnosis instructions we provide in later posts.
After we get the factory lighting working as it should, you decide if you want to have/keep the aftermarket 3rd brake lamp.
Honestly... I added a 3rd brake lamp to our first 67 B'cuda back in late 80s. I've added one in our current 67 B'cuda also. I learned how to power the thing without the logic module way back when the first one died ( about 1991 ).
 
Furyfrank, here's another thing you should do: back the car up to a wall or window so you can see the stop light reflection from the driver's seat. Switch the ignition off. Step on the brake. See the stop light reflection? Keep your foot on the brake and your eye on that reflection as you move the turn signal lever into the left-turn position. HOLY FLAMING SNOTBALLS, where did the stop light go?!! It switched off because your turn signal switch broke the stop light circuit to the left lamp and completed the turn signal circuit to that same lamp. But the ignition is switched off, so there's no power to the turn signal flasher, so no power to the lamp. Now move the turn signal lever back to the home/no-turn position and see how the stop light comes back on.

If that doesn't help you understand that yes, there is such a thing as a turn signal switch failure that causes the problem you're having, well… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Thanks for all the advise but I have one more question the left turn signal and brake light work so why doesn't the third brake light work when these are working. i have no idea how the third brake light was installed done before I bought the car. You also mentioned that the logic module could go bad.
 
Thanks for all the advise but I have one more question the left turn signal and brake light work so why doesn't the third brake light work when these are working.

This got answered in post № 9 of this thread.

Pro tip: A board like this is like the rest of life—you get out of it what you put into it. People are probably going to be less likely to spend time answering your questions in future if you make it clear like this that you don't bother reading the answers you get (and those you do bother to read, you insist are wrong without knowing what you're talking about). Makes you look like a timewaster and a waste of effort. If that's not the reputation you want, change your attitude and behaviour.
 
Don't chase your tail trying to find the problem in the add-on central stop light. That's not causing your problem. The reason why the central stop light isn't coming on is because the logic circuit built into it detects power on only the one stop light (left or right) that's working. That one-side-only condition is what the logic circuit uses to decide you're using turn signals rather than stepping on the brake (therefore not lighting up the central stop light). These logic circuits are notoriously failure-prone, which is why it's better to skip 'em and just run wire from a good central stop light all the way to the stop light switch (like this).

But your central stop light will probably start working again when you fix the actual problem, which is a faulty turn signal switch (or, less likely, a faulty wire from the turn signal switch to the right stop light). The power for the stop lights goes through the turn signal switch; that's what allows the one filament on each side to serve both stop light and turn signal functions. Failure in the T/S switch takes out both functions on one side. The reason why the taillight still works on that side is it's a different filament (2 filaments, 1 bulb) fed by a different wire connected to a different circuit.

The '60-'61 turn signal switch is a lot more complicated and expensive than the '62-up switches, and retrofitment isn't easily possible without swapping the whole steering column. The '60-'61 turn signal switch shows up from time to time on eBay—see for yourself.
OK when replacing the turn signal switch do you have to replace the wiring harness or can you just replace the switch, I have seen both on ebay the whole switch with wiring and only the plate.
 
Switch assembly comes with wiring harness. The plate thing is only for fixing a switch that works but won't self-cancel.
 
We've seen plenty of threads about ebay signal switches and cancel cams. End users tweaking the metal contacts and the plastics trying to make the parts work like they are supposed to. Cheep aftermarket junk is exactly that.
How hard is it? Its a lot harder when you have locking wheel and column mounted switch, all the later model stuff. Yours isn't so bad. You'll need a steering wheel puller. You may have some difficulty at the harness connector, moving the wire terminals from one to the other. In any case It's hard enough to justify investing in a quality part.
 
We've seen plenty of threads about ebay signal switches and cancel cams. End users tweaking the metal contacts and the plastics trying to make the parts work like they are supposed to. Cheep aftermarket junk is exactly that.

True, but none of that applies in this case. That's on '62-up cars; the OP here has a '61. There are no aftermarket options for his turn signal switch, just NOS Mopar parts. If they're intact when they arrive, they'll work fine once installed.

As for the R&R, it's not too difficult. The exact particulars of which screws go where are a little different from the '62-up switch swap, but the general idea is the same (and so are the tips and tricks to make it easy to work with the wiring):

Disconnect the battery negative terminal.

Remove the steering wheel's central ornament by grasping it and rotating it counterclockwise, then lifting it off.

Remove the ground wire from its terminal. Remove the three screws holding the horn ring/button and horn switch. Lift out the horn switch. Remove the steering wheel nut. Use a steering wheel puller to remove the wheel. Remove the turn signal lever from the switch. Remove the screws holding the switch to the column and lift out the retainer plate (if present).

The switch plugs into the under-dash wiring harness with a rectangular nylon multi-connector block at the base of the steering column (inside the car). You remove the nylon connector block by releasing each individual wire from the block, one at a time. This is achieved by means of a Terminal Extractor Pick (or, if you're in a hurry and don't want to spend money, a darning needle), inserted into the slot at the "front" (connector) end to depress the terminal's lock tab. Then a careful tug of the wire pulls it out the back of the connector block.

Draw yourself a diagram of which wire goes to which slot in the connector block.

Once you've released all the terminals from the block, tie a long piece of string or twine round the bundle of wires at the very end near the terminals. When you do this, stagger the terminals a little so they're not all bunched up in a big wad all together. Withdraw the old switch, which will pull the string up the column. Untie it, tie it round the wire bundle on the new switch, then pull the string to guide the new wire bundle down the column without any of the wires snagging and refusing to show themselves at the bottom.

Insert the wires into their correct locations in the terminal block, plug it back in, reassemble everything up top (make sure to match the steering wheel's double-wide master spline with its mate on the steering shaft).

Carefully reconnect the battery negative terminal, watching for fat sparks that would indicate something's the matter (if so, find and fix!). If no fat sparks, and everything's working…you're done!

Do yourself a favor while you're working on this system: Clean the front park/turn and rear brake/tail/turn lamp lenses in hot soapy water. If the reflector bowls behind the bulbs are at all dull or dark or peeling, stuff wads of masking tape in the bulb holes (or remove the sockets if they're the removable type), clean the reflectors with alcohol, then spray them with readily available "chrome" spray paint, which is practically ideal for the task.

Then install these (specifically, do not substitute) in the brake lights, and these in the front turn signals. You will need to swap in a new turn signal flasher, this one (connect its ground wire conveniently). Result will be brighter/faster/better performance out of your brake lights, and reduced current/workload through the switch to maximize its lifespan.
 
Here is the deal I am retired on a fixed income and this car is my toy. After checking out the prices on this switch I am wondering when I will get the money to buy one. So is there anything I can do to make at least the brake lights work until I can afford one ? Also I have a wiring diagram and looking at it there should be 2 wires going to each bulb but the drivers side has 3 green brown and black ? any suggestions would help.
Thanks
 
Here is the deal I am retired on a fixed income and this car is my toy. After checking out the prices on this switch I am wondering when I will get the money to buy one. So is there anything I can do to make at least the brake lights work until I can afford one ? Also I have a wiring diagram and looking at it there should be 2 wires going to each bulb but the drivers side has 3 green brown and black ? any suggestions would help.
Thanks
Green is turn/brake brown/tail and black/ground.
 
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