2015 Dodge Journey Problem, anybody know?

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swingingdart

swingingdart

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I have a 2015 Dodge Journey Crossroads, it's the fancy one with the expensive 19" tires. Four cylinder, front wheel drive. When I drive the steering wheel shakes, or wiggles back and forth. usually starts around 50mph. Gets waaaay worse around 60-68, makes the whole car vibrate. I've put on new tires multiple times and had it aligned multiple times. I trust the new tires and the people who balanced them, and having had it balanced multiple times that doesn't seem to be the issue. Does anybody know what's up?
 
If all 4 rims and tires are the same size, try rotating the front to the rear. Most rims are now hub centric, which means that the rim is centered on the axle/spindle hub. This done using plastic rings that fit both the hub diameter and the inside of the center rim hole snuggly. When you have the tires balanced, do it properly, which means that the weights should be on the outside and inside if the rims. Trying to hide the weights by only putting them on the inside/backside of the rim guarantees that the tires will be pout of balance no matter what the balancing machine shows. Dynamic imbalance causes the tire/wheel assembly to wobble. Static imbalance causes the assembly to hop. Large diameter rims are also subject to getting bent easily as there is little sidewall height to act as a shock absorber when hitting ruts and potholes.
 
MoparLeo said:
If all 4 rims and tires are the same size, try rotating the front to the rear. Most rims are now hub centric, which means that the rim is centered on the axle/spindle hub. This done using plastic rings that fit both the hub diameter and the inside of the center rim hole snuggly. When you have the tires balanced, do it properly, which means that the weights should be on the outside and inside if the rims. Trying to hide the weights by only putting them on the inside/backside of the rim guarantees that the tires will be pout of balance no matter what the balancing machine shows. Dynamic imbalance causes the tire/wheel assembly to wobble. Static imbalance causes the assembly to hop. Large diameter rims are also subject to getting bent easily as there is little sidewall height to act as a shock absorber when hitting ruts and potholes.
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huh, I never thought of the wheels being bent, must be slight for it to take till it's 60mph+ to wiggle. I'll try rotating the tires and pay special close attention to see what I can find. thanks!
 
rney_2015_2015_dodge_journey_crossroad_blue_streak_pearl_coat_in_dayton_ohio_3170006519839058219.jpg


this is it's identical twin.
 
Just a few questions.
Did you just get the car ?
Did you or the tire shop check for wheel run out?
Are you the only driver ?
I know you'll hate to hear this but,,,, See if you can find someone with steel wheels on theirs and swap them out to try.
I had the same problem on our PT Cruiser aluminum wheels when it was new. Swapped 3 sets of tires and spent $1800 .All did the same till I went to steel wheels.Just a thought.
 
How were the former tires wearing?
You said multiple alignments,but
said nothing about replacing parts.
Can you supply the current alignment settings including; caster,camber, and SAI, and possibly Thrust Angle?
Here's where I'm going;
If the the engine cradle has shifted or been shifted, the SAI will show it. If the camber was reset in compensation,AND the caster split is considerably greater than .5 degree or split the wrong way, AND one of: the rack or tie-rods are loose,and/or the toe is set to toe-in BAM!.......... instant shimmy.
Yours wouldn't be the first FWD car to exhibit this characteristic.lol. When I was a tech,I had to shift a lot of cradles to equalize the SAI, and I had to elongate a lot of strut mounting holes to get decent caster.
 
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are the tires the **** original brand of kumho's? I switched mine to michelins after the originals wore out after about 20000 kms, they were a terrible , poor ride, it shook - much better after we replaced them
 
My money is on a bent rim. It doesn't take much to bend a rim on a newer car, especially a large diameter rim with a low profile tire.
 
Darter6 said:
Just a few questions.
Did you just get the car ?
Did you or the tire shop check for wheel run out?
Are you the only driver ?
I know you'll hate to hear this but,,,, See if you can find someone with steel wheels on theirs and swap them out to try.
I had the same problem on our PT Cruiser aluminum wheels when it was new. Swapped 3 sets of tires and spent $1800 .All did the same till I went to steel wheels.Just a thought.
Click to expand...
I bought the car brand new, only 5 miles on it. I drove it on a dirt road for about 2 years of ownership before I moved, it's possible that had a role in it having the shimmy! Yeah, steel rims might be the way to go, these tires after tax are around $225 each.
 
AJ/FormS said:
How were the former tires wearing?
You said multiple alignments,but
said nothing about replacing parts.
Can you supply the current alignment settings including; caster,camber, and SAI, and possibly Thrust Angle?
Here's where I'm going;
If the the engine cradle has shifted or been shifted, the SAI will show it. If the camber was reset in compensation,AND the caster split is considerably greater than .5 degree or split the wrong way, AND one of: the rack or tie-rods are loose,and/or the toe is set to toe-in BAM!.......... instant shimmy.
Yours wouldn't be the first FWD car to exhibit this characteristic.lol. When I was a tech,I had to shift a lot of cradles to equalize the SAI, and I had to elongate a lot of strut mounting holes to get decent caster.
Click to expand...
The former tires wore on the outer most edge, then moved to total wear. they wore out fast, had to buy new tires in less than a year.
I was never supplied with the sheet of alignment settings, just always a "You're good to go!" from the mechanic. :/ Never heard of the engine cradle shifting, that might be it. Funny though, last night leaving work it rained pretty good and it seemed to have caused the shimmy to subside almost completely. I guess driving on the wet road?
 
lil red said:
are the tires the **** original brand of kumho's? I switched mine to michelins after the originals wore out after about 20000 kms, they were a terrible , poor ride, it shook - much better after we replaced them
Click to expand...
they're Hancook Optimo 225/55r19. 99h. the best tire the place carried.
 
AJ/FormS said:
The wet road proves the point; you need a proper alignment, and the print out is yours to keep,don't leave the shop without it.
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this.....yep - that or tire/rim issue. Had a broken belt once , but on snowy/wet roads ran perfect
 
swingingdart said:
I was never supplied with the sheet of alignment settings, just always a "You're good to go!" from the mechanic. :/ Never heard of the engine cradle shifting, that might be it. Funny though, last night leaving work it rained pretty good and it seemed to have caused the shimmy to subside almost completely. I guess driving on the wet road?
Click to expand...
AJ/FormS said:
The wet road proves the point; you need a proper alignment, and the print out is yours to keep,don't leave the shop without it.
Click to expand...
So I guess it sounds like it needs a new alignment, the place I took it to last did their "best" I'm thinking I'll take it to a new place that has a brand new laser guided system. And see if they can check the wheels and make sure they're not bend. and have them check the balance once more.
 
Tie rod ends
Tie rod ends
Tie rod ends

Or if it's pushing 150k on the odo, struts are getting soft and the tires are cupping.

Those are 90% of what I see on late models. Especially with non greaseable tie rod ends
 
jos51700 said:
Tie rod ends
Tie rod ends
Tie rod ends

Or if it's pushing 150k on the odo, struts are getting soft and the tires are cupping.

Those are 90% of what I see on late models. Especially with non greaseable tie rod ends
Click to expand...
I'll have them check those too, I can't afford to drop $500 on two tires twice a year! LOL
 
A shimmy usually starts by the toe-in being too far toed out.....( But not always, or is not the only contributor.)
And then allowed to continue by looseness in the steering. Once it starts, the usual cure is to slow down to well below the speed that it started at and then to sneak the speed back up to just below where it started at. I have never seen a case where increasing the speed, made it better.
What is happening is the toed-out tires are taking off at an angle to the road and not straight ahead. Of course that is only possible until the tire cords reach their limit of elasticity, and then the tire unloads and they try to snap back to the straight ahead position. And for a split second they do, but the tendency of a FWD car immediately toes the steering in again, and so it repeats endlessly, Scrubbing the rubber off.
The wet road reduces the traction of the tire, and so the shimmy is temporarily reduced.
Honestly your tech should know this. Find a new shop.
With the tires being driven in one direction by the power-unit, and in another by the alignment, the cords are under a lot of stress,flexing, and creating a lot of unnecessary heat. And heat kills tires fast. Jack the pressure up a good 5 psi over the recommended until you get this sorted.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
A shimmy usually started by the toe-in being too far toed out.....( But not always, or is not the only contributor.)
And then allowed to continue by looseness in the steering. Once it starts, the usual cure is to slow down to well below the speed that it started at and then to sneak the speed back up to just below where it started at. I have never seen a case where increasing the speed, made it better.
What is happening is the toed-out tires are taking off at an angle to the road and not straight ahead. Of course that is only possible until the tire cords reach their limit of elasticity, and then the tire unloads and they try to snap back to the straight ahead position. And for a split second they do, but the tendency of a FWD car immediately toes the steering in again, and so it repeats endlessly, Scrubbing the rubber off.
The wet road reduces the traction of the tire, and so the shimmy is temporarily reduced.
Honestly your tech should know this. Find a new shop.
With the tires being driven in one direction by the power-unit, and in another by the alignment, the cords are under a lot of stress,flexing, and creating a lot of unnecessary heat. And heat kills tires fast. Jack the pressure up a good 5 psi over the recommended until you get this sorted.
Click to expand...
thanks for the advice, I appreciate it!
 
Okay, so I took it to be aligned. He aligned it and said it was barely out of align. but he took the tires off to check the balance, as he suspected that the most. he found both were terribly out of balance. I'm no tire balancing expert, but he said the passenger side inside was 1.6 out, and over 2 out on the outside. and close to the same figures for the driver's side. He balanced them and a smooth ride is here! hit 70mph to make sure. no more shimmy guys! maybe my tires will last now!
Thanks for all the comments, I love having a place to post problems and have nice folks help ya out. :)
 
Usually wheel balance starts around 45 and gets worse as speed increases. First shop may need to calibrate their tire machine.
Remember, the tire guy is the second lowest paid guy in the shop.....
 
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