Oil Color

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71Twister440

71Twister440

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So currently running a 440, .30 over, Edlebrock alum heads, mild cam, alum intake, forged internals. Motor cant have more then 400 hundred miles since it was built many moons ago( 17 years), car sat but was ran monthly since its inception. Motor is really strong , sounds great, great oil pressure at start up and idle. One of my concerns lies in the color of the oil. I have started driving the car recently and have so far put maybe 150 miles on it since it had sat for the better part of a decade. I did pull the pan and clean everything out really good, but after running fresh clean oil for a short period, I pull the stick and its basically black ( this is the 3rd oil change in less then 150 miles. The oil looks like its got 10k on it. Before the carbs were rebuilt there was a good amount of gas in the crankcase, That problem was obviously solved before i started driving and running the car. Any thoughts? Could I just have residual sludge in the motor that has not completely worked itself down to the pan? Just want to avoid a larger problem due to avoiding asking. As always thank you all in advance for the help.
 
Could just be the oil. My motorcycle oil turns black within 200 miles but I've also had cars that stayed golden for a thousand or so. You may be getting excessive blow by to cause it to go black very fast.
 
Maybe a compression test or better yet, a leak down test. Make sure it's not too rich, sounds like you took care of that. Are you doing short trips, or nice long runs that get the oil up to full temp? Oil is cheap, you could do another change before a longer trip.
 
Demonic said:
Maybe a compression test or better yet, a leak down test. Make sure it's not too rich, sounds like you took care of that. Are you doing short trips, or nice long runs that get the oil up to full temp? Oil is cheap, you could do another change before a longer trip.
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I haven't yet tuned the car fully, I do think it may be a little rich just not at the point of flowing fuel everywhere like it did when it sat, and the trips are at max 20 mins at a clip so getting to a good solid temp, which I am also combating at the moment. Thanks for the input, Ill look into a compression and leak down. Any recommendations on how to do a leak down?
 
do a leakdown like stated but my guess is ring seal and no driving it more wont seal them up the only fix is new hone and ring job . if it's turning the oil black in 150 miles blow by will not be hard to diagnose .
 
We bought a Chivy motor once from a guy who had it rebuilt.He ran it for a couple hundred miles or so but ran it too rich.The gas washed the cylinders and the rings and bores wore right out in short order.We ended up doing a bore and total rebuild on the thing. Lesson here,don't run it too rich trying to seat those rings.Tune it and set the carb right and check the compression
 
Running too rich will darken oil in a hurry. Take it out, get it warmed up, run it hard on the way back to your garage and pull a few spark plugs and take a look. Post some photos here so we can see. My buddy had the same issues with his 383 in his Bee. When he switched to the 440 he had the same issue. He used the same fuel pump. His fuel pressure was close to 10# and Edelbrock/Carter/AFB style carbs can only handle about 5#. A regulator fixed the problem. Oil stays clean now too.
 
Yup. I would look at the plugs first. Instead of just looking at the oil, you could send a sample to be analyzed. And 17 years is a long time no matter how you look at it. Lots could go wrong.
 
Most people think that after they change the oil that thereafter it should look like new oil-wrong! There are hundreds of cavities within the motor that contain oil that will never be drained out. That new oil look will last about 30 seconds in a used motor. There is a difference between looking at old oil that is very black and thick and needs changing, and freshly changed oil that is somewhat black. Learn the difference.
 
Murray said:
Most people think that after they change the oil that thereafter it should look like new oil-wrong! There are hundreds of cavities within the motor that contain oil that will never be drained out. That new oil look will last about 30 seconds in a used motor. There is a difference between looking at old oil that is very black and thick and needs changing, and freshly changed oil that is somewhat black. Learn the difference.
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I agree and understand that, I figured I would get a head start on some ideas, I do think it needs to be flushed a little more with a few more oil changes as it looks a little better then it did after the first change but obviously still not clean as it should be. It also does not smell of gas like it did when the carbs were all gummed up. I sure hope I didnt wash the rings, is there any other symptoms of washed rings? I am not burning any oil and the motor is super strong. I had the plugs out and they were not fouled up at all, replaced them anyway, I am currently running just about 6 lbs of fuel pressure, electric pump and regulator close to the motor. I will pull a few pugs and upload some pictures when I can, radiator, fans and water pump currently out of the car as I am still tweaking my cooling system. Thanks everyone as always for the information,keep it coming.
 
Murray said:
Most people think that after they change the oil that thereafter it should look like new oil-wrong! There are hundreds of cavities within the motor that contain oil that will never be drained out. That new oil look will last about 30 seconds in a used motor. There is a difference between looking at old oil that is very black and thick and needs changing, and freshly changed oil that is somewhat black. Learn the difference.
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Roger, that is why I post questions on here to ask and learn. Id consider myself a B level Mechanic, no formal training but I have tons of humility and no pride when it comes to learning. I try to learn and take advice and information from those who have it. I grew up with honda motors, fuel injection, and alot of VW/BMW stuff. Believe it or not this is the first and only vehicle that has had carbs on it that I have worked on and owned, with a 6 pack no less. I just dont want to damage or blow an expensive motor by not asking a simple question. So as redundant and maybe basic as my question are, its all to get better and not make a simple mistake by trying to think I know what I am doing. This forum and its members have been great which is why I continue to ask and learn.
 
Be glad you don’t have a diesel, you’d freak out!
 
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This is also a possible cause.using black RVT sealant on gaskets can cause oil to turn black.I had this happen in one of my old motorcycles once. In my bikes (two strokes ones) the oil only lubricates the clutch and trans so the oil stays gold colored for it's life but it turnes black when ever I coat the clutch side case cover gasket with RVT.
 
Dark oil is normal, it only means that the additive package in your oil is doing what it was designed to do - clean. Years ago I was involved in oil testing at a Engineering Lab while employed by an engine manufacturer. The oils that cleaned the best always turned black and were always rated as high quality.
 
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Im going to check the compression, then attempt a leakdown, as of now im starting to lean towards not having all the old oil flushed out of all the passages, but im in it so I want to be sure everything is solid
 
71Twister440 said:
View attachment 1715196981 View attachment 1715196982 View attachment 1715196983 View attachment 1715196985
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If that is a Champion plug the heat range is correct. If it's an NGK it's a bit cold. If it's autolite it's probably 1 range too warm.

If the pictures are accurate you have too much timing. With pump gas you want the timing line on the ground wire to be half way between the bend and the shell. If you are running race gas you want it just around the corner and if alcohol you want the line about half way around the bend.

As for the oil...if you used moly paste on the cam lobes for break in your oil will almost always turn black because that crap floats around and then settles out in weird places. Like I said it will turn the oil black right quick.
 
yellow rose said:
If that is a Champion plug the heat range is correct. If it's an NGK it's a bit cold. If it's autolite it's probably 1 range too warm.

If the pictures are accurate you have too much timing. With pump gas you want the timing line on the ground wire to be half way between the bend and the shell. If you are running race gas you want it just around the corner and if alcohol you want the line about half way around the bend.

As for the oil...if you used moly paste on the cam lobes for break in your oil will almost always turn black because that crap floats around and then settles out in weird places. Like I said it will turn the oil black right quick.
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Those are NGK, and I have about 16-18 degrees in initial timing with a 20° bushing in it at the moment, def notice a difference in the plugs before i added more timing, I threw a little more timing in it to try and combat a cooling issue, but seems like I need to take a little back out
 
These on the left is what I pulled out when i first got the car back in my hands after sitting and the carbs were messed.up etc, before I added in timing also. 14 initial and unsure of what bushing came out, was discolored as were the.springs.
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71Twister440 said:
These on the left is what I pulled out when i first got the car back in my hands after sitting and the carbs were messed.up etc, before I added in timing also. 14 initial and unsure of what bushing came out, was discolored as were the.springs. View attachment 1715197194
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What range are those? You should be taking the cad of about a thread down for pump gas. You are at the tread. So that's a bit cold. You should see an improvement with 1 range hotter plug and you should be able to pull a little timing out.
 
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