ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
Just took off my front drums and see that the drivers side has the bearing housing attached but the passenger side has a typical drum with the bearings on the spindle. Which one is wrong?
67 Barracuda front brake drums, Alignments and tires
- Thread starter ChuckDock
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pishta
I know I'm right....
the naked one has had the studs replaced and there is no swedge to keep the drum on. Thats a good thing as it can be worked easier. The loaded one still has the swedges on the studs. A swedge is a bulge in the stud, like the back of a rivet. Must be cut off.
ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
But both work ok, and its ok to have a mismatch on the front? Is the one with the attached bearing housing just an older style or something?
g413
Well-Known Member
The one with hub attached is how it came from the factory. As years go by and somebody separates the hub from the drum, they cannot be practically be "pressed" back together. Both are okay as Pishta says. If you plan on removing the studs from the pressed-on one, you CANNOT just hammer them out. There are many threads on this site on how to do it correctly.
Frnknsteen
Well-Known Member
Mine are the same as the black one. I was going to grind the swege (swelled area) off the studs, but I plan to replace with disc brakes soon, so I haven't messed with it. Basically, the factory studs had a swell to them to hold the drum onto the hub. You need to cut or grind that off to make the drum removable like the red one in your picture.
You don't want to drive them out of the hub without doing that because that swelled area will remove material from the hub as you are driving them out and holes for the new studs will be too large to press new studs into. Only option then is to weld the new studs back in, which many have had to do.
I've heard of people driving the hub out of the drum, then use a hole saw that has the right inside diameter to just cut off that swelled portion. The other option is to cut the old studs off flush to the face of the hub, then drive them out.
You don't want to drive them out of the hub without doing that because that swelled area will remove material from the hub as you are driving them out and holes for the new studs will be too large to press new studs into. Only option then is to weld the new studs back in, which many have had to do.
I've heard of people driving the hub out of the drum, then use a hole saw that has the right inside diameter to just cut off that swelled portion. The other option is to cut the old studs off flush to the face of the hub, then drive them out.
ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
Ok, good deal. Actually Pishta didn't say if the mismatch was ok, but now I know it's ok to leave as is until I do some major changes to the front end. I really don't like how these old mopars drive at 70mph on bumpy Michigan highways..feels like I'm battling it. At 55 its fine though. All new front end parts, fresh alignment and all that but still sucks. Coil overs to come for sure.
Thanks though!
ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
I guess I don't really see any reason to changed the attached hub so no worries about that.
Thanks!
Something is not right, mine will cruise all day at 75 mph to 80 mph smooth as glass. Alignment? tires?
ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
I did have it aligned two days ago, then took the it on the highway for the first time.
Thing is, these guys have old specs so I asked them to add more caster. The specs are what he did but I found specs on this site that you see hand written in the pic, that I'm going to see if they can do that.
What car do you have, and do you know the numbers it was aligned to? What size are your front tires, and do you have a stock setup? I have slightly thicker tie rod ends and sleeves and a brand new manual gear box and new upper and lower ball joints.
Frnknsteen
Well-Known Member
Mine too. Do you know where everything was set on the alignment? (meaning what the final Camber, Caster, and Toe were set to) If they set it to factory specs, it was for bias ply tires and may explain how it's handling. What exactly are you fighting? Does it pull, wander, or what?
Frnknsteen
Well-Known Member
I see the issue. Looks like you have positive camber and negative caster. That's how the factory originally set them up for bias ply tires. With modern radials, you want negative camber and as much positive caster as you can get (within reason). I will attach what my alignment settings were, but there is also a thing floating around on here called a Skoche chart, that breaks it down by how you plan to drive the car.
Found a copy of the chart I was talking about. My car has 225/60R14 tires on the front, stock setup, other than a faster ratio 20:1 steering box.
Frnknsteen
Well-Known Member
Something to consider,... alignment machines set toe by degrees, not a fractional measurement like 1/16" or 1/8". I calculated degrees for my diameter of tire and 1/16" is about .14 degrees. In my post above, you'll see they got my toe set to .14 and .13. Close enough for me.
You likely won't get 3 degrees of positive caster without offset bushings. I have them in mine and as you can see they got about 4.9 degrees of positive caster. Probably more than I needed, but I DID ask them to get as much as they could, and it drives well.
You likely won't get 3 degrees of positive caster without offset bushings. I have them in mine and as you can see they got about 4.9 degrees of positive caster. Probably more than I needed, but I DID ask them to get as much as they could, and it drives well.
ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
When I hit bumps at 70, the car jumps around pretty good. Feels like its pulling a little to the right as well. But, it was really windy yesterday as well, and the car is pretty light. Just not stable and comfortable. It's been a long time since I've driven an old car but 30 years go I had a couple of dusters and one I drove cross country and it was ok.
ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
Yup, thats the chart I was referencing that I found on this site. I went a bit more with the granny, I just want a good driver, no road racer or anything. The chart I understand but your car print out is confusing.
Frnknsteen
Well-Known Member
Yeah,... lot of information on there. Main points are the caster (+4.90 left, +4.89 right), Camber (-.89 left, -.90 right), Toe-in (.14 degrees left, .13 degrees left).
Steering wheel is off .27 degrees. Camber of rear wheels are -.02 degrees left and -.1 degrees right. Rear toe is -.22 degrees left and +.03 degrees right. That tells me my rear axle is not perfectly square to the car, but not off much. I think the -.19 degrees means the axle is shifted slightly to the left side from center. Not sure what the -.12 degrees is... Maybe the tilt of the axle that is causing the rear toe to be negative on one side and positive on the other.
Not to confuse you, but they also gave me this screenshot printout after aligning. Kind of tells where everything is sitting from a squareness standpoint. FYI,... I am running P225/60r14 on the front and P245/60r14 in the back.
Steering wheel is off .27 degrees. Camber of rear wheels are -.02 degrees left and -.1 degrees right. Rear toe is -.22 degrees left and +.03 degrees right. That tells me my rear axle is not perfectly square to the car, but not off much. I think the -.19 degrees means the axle is shifted slightly to the left side from center. Not sure what the -.12 degrees is... Maybe the tilt of the axle that is causing the rear toe to be negative on one side and positive on the other.
Not to confuse you, but they also gave me this screenshot printout after aligning. Kind of tells where everything is sitting from a squareness standpoint. FYI,... I am running P225/60r14 on the front and P245/60r14 in the back.
I have a 66 Formula S Barracuda, K-H front discs with the factory front sway bar and Bilstein shocks. Bushings are MOOG HD rubber, no offset bushings. I do not know the alignment specs. My guy road races, and I trust him. I do know he said, you cant get much more than +2.5 degrees caster and keep everything else where you need to. I also run the fastest rated tires I can get. Right now I'm running 195-55R15 V rated Dunlops all around. My brother has a 67 Fastback Barracuda with the Formula S suspension and 10 in front drum brakes. He would cruise at 100 mph all day out west, back in the day. Not sure what is going on with your car. Is everything torqued correctly?
ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
You guys run some wide tires for sure! At 55 or less it drives pretty good. I know now my alignment is not right from what you guys have posted. I'm just waiting for a non-rainy day to get it back up to the shop. I just replaced the front tires yesterday because one was a different brand than the other, with a different tread pattern as well, but the same size. That will help as well I think. As far as lug nuts torqued...well, lets say the are tight..guess I should probably do that though. I would love to have disc brakes on front, and a sway bar. My tires are just rated at 112mph as well. BF goodrich T/A radials. 215/70/r14 on front, 225/70/r14 on rear. I had a 2012 ss camaro a few years ago and it had wide tires on it, and it drove like hell on some of these poor MI roads. The roads around here are not flat, but kind of rutted, and that camaro pulled all over the place. It was smooth as silk on good roads though. Point being, it seems like narrow tires drive better, to me. Wide tires look better though
ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
Ah..I'll have to change my numbers to what you listed here for my toe alignment guy. Thanks for that info.
My son's Dart was in a fender bender years ago. Drove kinda what you describe. Took it to my friend, and he found some front end parts not tightened to spec. Tightened everything to what it should be, re aligned it and it was back to "normal".
Frnknsteen
Well-Known Member
What do you consider wide? I only ask because the only tire size reference I am seeing on this thread is mine about my 225/60-14 on the front and 245/60-14 on the back, and 66fs saying he ran 195/55R -15. I wouldn't really call any of those wide.
Just to clarify,.... You do know that tire with is by the first number, not the series of the tire, right. The series of the tire (55, 60, 70) is the aspect ratio which is a percentage of the width. So the 225/70-14 that you are running on the back is a 225 millimeter wide tire, the "70" designates that the side wall of the tire is 70% of the width, and the 14 is the rim size. So your 225/70r-14 is actually wider than 66fs tire that is 195/55r-15.
That means my 245/60r-14 on the back of mine are only 20 millimeters (less than an inch) wider than your P225/70r-14, but yours have a taller side wall, so it will be taller. 245/60-14 is 9.7" wide x 25.6" tall. 225/70-14 is 8.9" wide x 26.4" tall.
Frnknsteen
Well-Known Member
ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
Ah yes, I was looking at it wrong, thinking 60's are the width..but no. Less tall would seem better for handling as well. I should probably go that route. Thanks!
ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
Initially the idler arm bolt was finger loose..that didn't help much. Yup, it's been amazing how many nuts and bolts were loose on this car. Torque converter had 1 bolt I could unscrew with my fingers. Trans to engine had missing bolts and more loose one's..crazy. So I've been going over everything I can for sure. I've have to shim the motor mounts so the trans would line up correctly at the trans mount. That was way off. Thankfully I have a lift so getting to all this stuff is pretty easy.
ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
Just an update to this post. I installed the off set bushings and that should help getting the alignment right. I also replaced the lca bushings, and added the steel plate to the lca for stiffness. I have the 1.03 T-bars from pst now, and the big sway bar from firmfeel. I'm going though a disc brake conversion now but that is just getting pricey because it looks like I'll have to replace my wheels and tires which is a bummer. My hub size hole in the wheels are so small, like 2 3/8". So, researching that a bunch and will see what I can figure out. I really want disc up front. I've already experienced the pull to the left/right when braking at times, and thats no fun.
Look for a Kelsey Hays setup. They work nice and your wheels should bolt right up. Also if you have an 8 3/4 rear, you are good to go.
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