drums worth it? what do i need

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torred0319

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working on my valiant i have a 8 3/4 with aftermarket axles dissasembled at the moment with nice 10 drum setup. i have new inline tube park brake cables and brake lines. I just picked up set of 11x2.5 brakes today complete brake assemblies no cables. new drums in packages, new wheel cyls, shoes and hardware. I have all the 10" stuff i know fits. My question is what else needs to be changed to go 11 drum on rear? will the cables fit ? is it worth it? i see basically what i got on fee bay for retarded money. opinions?
 
As a general rule of thumb, if you go bigger in the back, the front has to be better also.

A balanced system is required.
 
73 stock disc thinking of upgrading to 11.75 and adding power brakes
 
car is been apart last 15 years finally trying to put it back together
 
Stick with what you have to get it on the road.

Try it.

Then go bigger later - if you think you need to.
 
I spent some time and expense to go with 4 wheel discs only to realize I dont drive fast enough for them to make a difference.
The 340 Swinger I am doing now will maintain the stock drums.
 
The 11.75” disks up front and 11x2.5” drums out back are a big improvement over the 10.95” disks and 10x2.5” drums. I ran the 11.75/11x2.5” combo on my Challenger for about 70k miles, and for a couple thousand miles on my Duster. I also ran both cars with the stock 73+ disks and 10x2.5” drums.

The Challenger was also a power brake car, but I’ve since converted it to a manual, 15/16” master cylinder. The power brakes don’t improve braking, they just make the pedal easier to push. I’ve never liked the vague pedal feel that comes with the 70’s style Mopar power brakes. The 15/16” manual master cylinder provides much better brake feel, and the pedal effort with that size master cylinder isn’t bad at all.

It’s absolutely worth doing the upgrade, and I wouldn’t waste my money rebuilding a set of the 10” brakes (disks or drums) if you have the 11” brakes already.
 
It matters more than speed. Modern cars stop in such a short distance now compared to way back when , that it is much safer to have a quicker stopping car at any speed. If the car in front of you can stop in x amount of feet at 60 mph and your car will only come to a stop in 2x feet at 60 mph. You can see the advantage of better working brakes even if your car is not modified to go any faster. It is much safer to have better stopping rear brakes than over functioning front brakes. If the rear lock up first, you go straight. If the front lock up first, you go in donuts as the rear comes around to the front. Think trailer brakes on an 18 wheeler. To keep from jackknifing they apply more rear brake.
 
It needs to be a whole package including the tires to make it stop in shorter distance.
Road racing, towing in hills, etc - larger mass can absorb and disapate more heat. This reduces the need to use higher temperature brake lining compounds.
Otherwise its all just more rotating mass which isn't doing anything good.
 
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This may ruffle some feathers but I've never had a problem with 4 wheel drums. A brake booster makes all the difference.
 
That's why all current cars use disc brakes. The manufacturers must not be smart enough to just use a booster. Wait a minute...Brake pull after a few hard stops ??..Total brake fade when the drums heat up ... probably still like bias ply tires...just get the glass belted ones..
Yes braking is a total package just as the car is a total package. You need to know the vehicle weight to know how much brake that is required to absorb the kinetic energy. Tire size, contact patch, weight transfer.... Can't have too much brake but can definitely have too little brake.
 
That's why all current cars use disc brakes.

This might shock you but as recently as 2017 you could buy brand new vehicles with rear drums including a Tacoma.

I'm not saying drums are better then discs whatsoever but I believe they get an undeserved bad reputation. If you need to do multiple hard stops within minutes then it's probably smarter to just remove yourself from whatever situation that's endangering your life.
 
Torred, you need to match (go smaller in diameter) the rear brake cylinders to prevent rear-brake bias.
It's also possible to limit fluid-pressure to the rear with an adjustable valve (which can always still be done), but it's better to be one step ahead of the game and get 'one-size' smaller brake cylinders for the rear.
 
To answer the original question: Do you have the backing plates for the 11" setup? I see no mention in the OP. You'll need them.
 
basically a guy i know was cleaning out a forclosed property there was some mopar parts. He was not sure what they were. I puchased everything for 100 bucks rebuilt e body gear box power steering pump and brackets and 2 original brake assemblies cables were cut and but brakes are complete, And I also got 2 new drums new shoes new wheel cylinders and spring kit. I didnt think i could go wrong. Currently my rear axle is a bare housing clean fresh paint center chunk is original 489 center with new pinion seal and yoke. Only reason i took it apart was it leaked and kinda rusty it has yukon axles and ran quiet. The axle came from a parts car i bought i did drive it he rear axle had fairly new 10x2.5 brakes on it parking brake was not connected did pick up all the parts for the park brake. I also bought new parking brake cables. So basically now i have both 10x2.5 and the 11's.
 
basically a guy i know was cleaning out a forclosed property there was some mopar parts. He was not sure what they were. I puchased everything for 100 bucks rebuilt e body gear box power steering pump and brackets and 2 original brake assemblies cables were cut and but brakes are complete, And I also got 2 new drums new shoes new wheel cylinders and spring kit. I didnt think i could go wrong. Currently my rear axle is a bare housing clean fresh paint center chunk is original 489 center with new pinion seal and yoke. Only reason i took it apart was it leaked and kinda rusty it has yukon axles and ran quiet. The axle came from a parts car i bought i did drive it he rear axle had fairly new 10x2.5 brakes on it parking brake was not connected did pick up all the parts for the park brake. I also bought new parking brake cables. So basically now i have both 10x2.5 and the 11's.

If you have both sets, and are considering going to 11.75” disks in the front, just install the 11x2.5’s.

Setting up the rear brake bias depends on a lot of factors, you can’t just assume the 11x2.5’s will be too much rear brake. Most people run these cars with bigger tires on the back than the front, which means you can run more brake too. And it depends on ride height, torsion bar and rear spring rates, f/r weight balance, even tire compounds (like if you’re running drag radials out back).

On both of my cars with the 11.75’s and 11x2.5’s I was pretty happy with how the front/rear brake bias worked out. If you want it to be perfect you’d have to install an adjustable prop valve, but that goes for the regular 73+ disks and 10x2.5” brakes too.
 
Are the cables the same 10 vs 11 drum?
the 11 seem quite a bit heavier than the 10 are they worth the weight?
I have set of stock lbp 73 rotors and wheel bearings 10.9 i think but no calipers, im thinking of going 11.75 setup seems like good upgrade? Or???????? i really dont want to spend 600-1200 bucks a axle on brakes
I have a old mopar performance master cyl and mounting plate but not sure of the size. 72bluNblu recommended 15/16 and keeping it manual.
If i do run 11.75 on the front and 11 on the back do i need to change anything else?
Ultimately I just want to drive it and enjoy it its not a race car. I just want a nice driving good performing car. it is a 4 speed so park brake is a must. Money is not as important as time. Rarely i get time to tinker on it. I need it to be right the first time! I dont have time to try stuff untill im happy, but I dont need 6 piston bear brakes to drive across town either. just looking for good street setup. I am going to clean them up and put them together question is swap them for the 10's or sell them?
 
If you have both sets, and are considering going to 11.75” disks in the front, just install the 11x2.5’s.

Setting up the rear brake bias depends on a lot of factors, you can’t just assume the 11x2.5’s will be too much rear brake. Most people run these cars with bigger tires on the back than the front, which means you can run more brake too. And it depends on ride height, torsion bar and rear spring rates, f/r weight balance, even tire compounds (like if you’re running drag radials out back).

On both of my cars with the 11.75’s and 11x2.5’s I was pretty happy with how the front/rear brake bias worked out. If you want it to be perfect you’d have to install an adjustable prop valve, but that goes for the regular 73+ disks and 10x2.5” brakes too.
if you put them on two i should just run the 11.75 & 11 set up it really wont cost that much i need calipers pads hoses ect any way just need few more parts
 
This might shock you but as recently as 2017 you could buy brand new vehicles with rear drums including a Tacoma.

I'm not saying drums are better then discs whatsoever but I believe they get an undeserved bad reputation. If you need to do multiple hard stops within minutes then it's probably smarter to just remove yourself from whatever situation that's endangering your life.
I agree with this. My neighbor had a 56 Chevy with the stock 9 inch drum brakes and they would stop a low 10 sec car. This reminds me of the arguments I get in with people saying they need to have 4 wheel drive or all wheel drive. BS!
 
Are the cables the same 10 vs 11 drum?
the 11 seem quite a bit heavier than the 10 are they worth the weight?
I have set of stock lbp 73 rotors and wheel bearings 10.9 i think but no calipers, im thinking of going 11.75 setup seems like good upgrade? Or???????? i really dont want to spend 600-1200 bucks a axle on brakes
I have a old mopar performance master cyl and mounting plate but not sure of the size. 72bluNblu recommended 15/16 and keeping it manual.
If i do run 11.75 on the front and 11 on the back do i need to change anything else?
Ultimately I just want to drive it and enjoy it its not a race car. I just want a nice driving good performing car. it is a 4 speed so park brake is a must. Money is not as important as time. Rarely i get time to tinker on it. I need it to be right the first time! I dont have time to try stuff untill im happy, but I dont need 6 piston bear brakes to drive across town either. just looking for good street setup. I am going to clean them up and put them together question is swap them for the 10's or sell them?

If you have the 73+ spindles it won’t cost that much to go to the 11.75” rotors. The calipers are the same for both, so either way you need those. The bearings are the same. All you need is the 11.75” rotors and the caliper brackets for those rotors. The caliper brackets are $100 from doctordiff, the rotors are usually like $80-$100 for a pair for the plain ones or DoctorDiff has drilled/slotted rotors for $145. And you need the calipers and hoses regardless.

You do need 15” wheels if you don’t have those, I’m not sure that’s come up yet.

I prefer manual brakes with a 15/16” master. It’ll be cheaper to buy a new manual master than a whole power brake set up, but that’s up to you.

if you put them on two i should just run the 11.75 & 11 set up it really wont cost that much i need calipers pads hoses ect any way just need few more parts

That’s the way I’m looking at it. It’ll cost a few hundred bucks more but you’ll have better stopping power, and either way it sounds like you're spending some money to finish the brakes. Might as well do it right the first time, instead of doing it and then deciding you want to upgrade again later.

I agree with this. My neighbor had a 56 Chevy with the stock 9 inch drum brakes and they would stop a low 10 sec car. This reminds me of the arguments I get in with people saying they need to have 4 wheel drive or all wheel drive. BS!

This is just ignorance.

Sure, you can stop that 10 second car once, but if you have to do it again before the drums cool off you’re into the wall. And if it’s raining cats and dogs you’re into the wall. And if the adjuster on the left side is one click tighter than the one on the right when you yard on the brakes you’re into the wall.

Can you stop that car most of the time ok? Sure, if it’s a drag race garage queen that never sees wet weather and always has a nice cool down period. Drive it in traffic on the freeway and not so much. Drive it in the winter and not so much.

Heck, actually drive it and not so much.
 
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This is just ignorance.

Sure, you can stop that 10 second car once, but if you have to do it again before the drums cool off you’re into the wall. And if it’s raining cats and dogs you’re into the wall. And if the adjuster on the left side is one click tighter than the one on the right when you yard on the brakes you’re into the wall.

Can you stop that car most of the time ok? Sure, if it’s a drag race garage queen that never sees wet weather and always has a nice cool down period. Drive it in traffic on the freeway and not so much. Drive it in the winter and not so much.

Heck, actually drive it and not so much.
That's a ton of assumptions that don't follow. A 10 second drag race car does not have to make two stops in row in in the fastest turn around. If a piston hangs up on a caliper, or a hose doesn't flow right, the problem of one side locking upo or not working will happen with a caliper equiped car. Rain is not a problem for drums. Rain does not equal driving through a deep puddle, and with any brake its still a good idea to give them a little squeegee action after doing that.

Drive it? That comes across as pretty arrogant - at least to me.
I drive my car 4 seasons - dirt to Interstates. I've checked the maximum brake temperatures when I drove on the track at NJMP. I know people road racing with 4 drums - not that they like it, but thats the rules. Point is its doable. I've driven 4 drum cars in autocross and winter snow with great stopping. Furthermore, drums on the rear are a lot less to be concerned about than drums on all 4. The OP has a light car and either 10 x 1.75 or 10 x 2.5 drums are plenty adequate. Bigger drums than that are just adding weight. Unless there is a special need, like to handle more heat or gain leverage, bigger than than enough is not needed or desireable.
 
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I have something to say in regards to water. Once again in the 61 Chevy i used to have to daily it. Only once did i ever have water cause brake fade and that was because i had to drive through a flooded section of road (someone upstairs must have helped me get through that mess). Naturally the brake pedal wasn't working so i missed my turn, well it took less then 200 feet before the brakes were working good as new. I understand this is just anecdotal evidence but until I experience otherwise i'm fine with drums. I'm considering a going to discs on my Duster for the sole face that the plan is to put a 440 in it. I ordered wheels a while ago so i'll have to see what the bolt pattern is before i make a decision.
 
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