Frustrated

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Rodsaknockin said:
just got done porting and polishing my j heads took them to the machine shop to get seats cut and guides ect and the machinist called me and said he hit water on the second intake valve these were 2.02/1.60 valves. What are the chances and is there a method of repair that can be trusted ?
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Can you post some pictures for the rest of us, trying to figure this out, can see ??
I've seen rookie machinists do some dumb things... 'oh, it's just a dodge head.. '
Possibilities are endless, I suppose.
Take some pics, please.
 
So I talked to the machinist today and looked at the head in question he indeed cut in new exhaust and intake seats into my heads he did hit water because he used 1/4" seats. There are 1/8" seats for these heads the machinist did make a error. These heads I did port and I did polish the exhaust side to a fairly good finish. they were not door stop heads and they were indeed repairable. The reason I chose to go with iron heads over alloy was to stay as close to looking like the real thing as possible. The bowls were not under cut measurements were taking along the way I have been a licensed mechanic for 20plus years so I do have a pretty good idea. I'm not saying I know everything at all and the advice given from members on here has been great and well taken. Always good to take all ideas into consideration.
 
When I pick the heads up from the machine shop I will take some pictures and try to post them
Thanks
 
Rodsaknockin said:
So I talked to the machinist today and looked at the head in question he indeed cut in new exhaust and intake seats into my heads he did hit water because he used 1/4" seats. There are 1/8" seats for these heads the machinist did make a error. These heads I did port and I did polish the exhaust side to a fairly good finish. they were not door stop heads and they were indeed repairable. The reason I chose to go with iron heads over alloy was to stay as close to looking like the real thing as possible. The bowls were not under cut measurements were taking along the way I have been a licensed mechanic for 20plus years so I do have a pretty good idea. I'm not saying I know everything at all and the advice given from members on here has been great and well taken. Always good to take all ideas into consideration.
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So the question is why was he putting seats under the intake valve(s). And unless I've found otherwise, I never use the seat the SBI book calls for.

That's what experience gets you. The seats are usually too thin, too small on the ID and too large on the OD.
 
He was doing the seats on the intakes because he suggested they should be done. Now in the business I'm in I work on a lot of natural gas engines and it is a common practice to cut seats into the heads. I have had this guy do a lot of stuff for me over the years
 
I wasn't even looking to blame the guy we are pretty good friends I was just looking for a solution to the problem
 
Rodsaknockin said:
He was doing the seats on the intakes because he suggested they should be done. Now in the business I'm in I work on a lot of natural gas engines and it is a common practice to cut seats into the heads. I have had this guy do a lot of stuff for me over the years
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I was kinda wondering about that... Yes, natural gas or propane is just relentless on valves/seats. I've seen a lot of forklift engines brutalized by that fuel source.
 
Yah exactly and I mean the guy has always done solid work for me in the past and the j castings I bought were repairable it was a over sight. I wish I had another set or ten of them in Alberta. A lot of that stuff is hard to find and big bucks like 500.00 dollars just for bare casting especially where I live and who knows where these even came from maybe there was core shift when they were cast . I will go with a set of aluminum heads and drudge forward could of spent the money in way worse ways than that
 
Rodsaknockin said:
He was doing the seats on the intakes because he suggested they should be done. Now in the business I'm in I work on a lot of natural gas engines and it is a common practice to cut seats into the heads. I have had this guy do a lot of stuff for me over the years
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Ok, why did he suggest it? I'm trying to get the thinking behind it? We're the seats so shot the only way to save the valve job was with a seat? Did you sack the seats so hard when doing the port work he couldn't get a valve job on there?

Just trying to understand why he was doing what he did.
 
The seats were worn out and years of unleaded gas had the valve recessed in the head the porting did not effect it there would of been a tiny lip to clean up after the seats were installed. I have had a set of heads for a 318 repaired in the very same way and dozens of sets of 4.3 gm heads repaired just the same as these were going to be repaired. Because of the lower octane levels or high temps especially with nat gas or propane this is common practice the exhaust is usually effected far worse than the intakes but in this case i guess it was do it all once and chances are probably not for a long time and worst case is if you do a valve job down the road it would be a quick grind and away u go again. When I looked at the heads when I bought them they were pitted in the seat area. Maybe I should of looked for another set of castings but beggars can't be choosers and there is more than one way to skin a cat it just didn't work out this time.I wanted to believe there was a easy fix I knew better but because I had quit a bit of time invested I thought it was maybe worth a shot
 
"Stuff happens". We all make mistakes.
Just an FYI - the intakes do not recess like the exh valves do. I've never, in 30+ years (including my years as an ASE Master tech), ever had to replace an intake seat. I have heard of damaged heads needing them - so it can and is done. But usually it's when you're going with the same size valve, and the damage to the existing seat area is so bad you would have to sink it and really mess things up... Going with the next size up intake valve usually solves the problem, and increases flow potential of the valve job as a whole. So just for next time - intakes will not typically need replacement seats unless there's significant damage and you need to retain the existing intake valve size.
 
moper said:
"Stuff happens". We all make mistakes.
Just an FYI - the intakes do not recess like the exh valves do. I've never, in 30+ years (including my years as an ASE Master tech), ever had to replace an intake seat. I have heard of damaged heads needing them - so it can and is done. But usually it's when you're going with the same size valve, and the damage to the existing seat area is so bad you would have to sink it and really mess things up... Going with the next size up intake valve usually solves the problem, and increases flow potential of the valve job as a whole. So just for next time - intakes will not typically need replacement seats unless there's significant damage and you need to retain the existing intake valve size.
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I did a little more investigating and found out there was 2 choices for seat machinist was cutting in 1/4" deep seats and there was a seat that measured 1/8"That should of been used I do not disagree with you on your thoughts of not needing intake seats however this is what was done they were pitted quit bad a larger valve is a great idea and should of been option. Thanks for the info always good to bounce ideas off of others
 
Rodsaknockin said:
I did a little more investigating and found out there was 2 choices for seat machinist was cutting in 1/4" deep seats and there was a seat that measured 1/8"That should of been used I do not disagree with you on your thoughts of not needing intake seats however this is what was done they were pitted quit bad a larger valve is a great idea and should of been option. Thanks for the info always good to bounce ideas off of others
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what if i sent you 1 cylinder head? it needs 2 intake seats or 2.08 valves as there was erosion on those 2 seats (water got into the engine). the head should be rebuild, like seats, guides and milling. it has been sand-blasted and the freeze plugs have been changed. other than that, it is a bare virgin head, good core. it is a 360 915 1.88 head that i am not going to use because of the erosion damage. pm me for pictures or questions. all you pay for is shipping which should be reasonable within canada.
 
7e5hangten360 said:
what if i sent you 1 cylinder head? it needs 2 intake seats or 2.08 valves as there was erosion on those 2 seats (water got into the engine). the head should be rebuild, like seats, guides and milling. it has been sand-blasted and the freeze plugs have been changed. other than that, it is a bare virgin head, good core. it is a 360 915 1.88 head that i am not going to use because of the erosion damage. pm me for pictures or questions. all you pay for is shipping which should be reasonable within canada.
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That sounds great can u let me no your info
 
I have a pair of bare J heads taking up space in Saskatoon too. If you have some way of getting them, let me know.

Cley
 
This board is great
I have some J and X some with guides and seats here in LA- they are on consignment but I can get them back if someone is doing a matching number build or stealth
otherwise everyone wanted to go aluminum instead of paying what it costs to redoo iron
 
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