440 Oil Pressure Issues..

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All right...so here's where "I think" I'm at.

1. Pulling that damn oil pump is a last resort. It's smammered (new word) in between the K frame and the block. I had to cut a notch in the K frame for it to fit.

2. I feel like the pickup is good.

3. I beat the pan "precisely" back to factory condition. LOL.

4. I think/hope/pray the pressure problem was due to the pickup being smashed against the pan. With the correct angle, it'll nearly close off any avenue for oil to get sucked up. I'm going to slap it back together, fill it with oil, and prime it with my drill and see if I get showered with oil with the valve cover removed.

5. Next will be the oil pump. I'm supper attached to this oil pump...as I have zero desire to take it off. LOL

I'll post my outcome. I personally dislike it when guys ask for help...get it, then never follow up with results. You'll get mine. Or more pleads for help.

Whats the clearance for the pickup to pan?? It's been a while since I slapped this thing together. Seem to remember 3/16-1/4"??

Brian and Dave...THANKS.
 
best of luck, put a gauge on it you should have 60 psi with HV pump
 
1. Pulling that damn oil pump is a last resort.

Ya' might pull the relief spring out and make sure everything moves free.

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I would replace the oil pickup tube with a new one! I learned the hard way building an engine with a used pickup tube. Never again! 65'
 
Very similar, it was a small block build. Removed the used pickup tube and it had sludge buildup. Oil pressure was very low at idle. Oil pump was new. Never built another engine with a use pickup, and never had an issue! 65'
 
That pickup needs to be TOUCHING the bottom of the pan. That's how it's designed. If it's not touching the pan, it's wrong.

So don't beat the pan down and then not verify the pick up is touching the pan. It MUST touch the pan.
 
That pickup needs to be TOUCHING the bottom of the pan. That's how it's designed. If it's not touching the pan, it's wrong.

So don't beat the pan down and then not verify the pick up is touching the pan. It MUST touch the pan.
Everything I’ve read indicates 1/4-3/8” clearance??? Why touching?? I kinda feel like mine was touching the **** out of my pan after i smashed it
 
Everything I’ve read indicates 1/4-3/8” clearance??? Why touching?? I kinda feel like mine was touching the **** out of my pan after i smashed it


You didn't read that about that OE pickup. It needs to touch the bottom of the pan. Anything else is wrong.
 
You didn't read that about that OE pickup. It needs to touch the bottom of the pan. Anything else is wrong.

Hey rose, Tom Hoover told us that about 3/8" was what to shoot for on a hemi back in the day.
A stock hemi would pump a qt. a second at drag racing revs. I have always done it that way and never had an oiling problem chevy or mopar. I think Bill Jenkins said the same thing in one of his sbc books. In a touching the pan situation, the pump will pump more than can get in to the pick up , (vortech). I run a good 3/8" on my milodon single line too , as the hi volume pump will pump the same thing on a 440/505 as a hemi..
The pick up was et at 1/2" on the old funny car that I got the oil pan and system off of, I ran it that way for a while and ended up changing it to 3/8".?????????????????????????????????????????????
 
Hey rose, Tom Hoover told us that about 3/8" was what to shoot for on a hemi back in the day.
A stock hemi would pump a qt. a second at drag racing revs. I have always done it that way and never had an oiling problem chevy or mopar. I think Bill Jenkins said the same thing in one of his sbc books. In a touching the pan situation, the pump will pump more than can get in to the pick up , (vortech). I run a good 3/8" on my milodon single line too , as the hi volume pump will pump the same thing on a 440/505 as a hemi..
The pick up was et at 1/2" on the old funny car that I got the oil pan and system off of, I ran it that way for a while and ended up changing it to 3/8".?????????????????????????????????????????????


He must have been talking about aftermarket pick ups because no factory pick up should be that far from the pan.
 
Lol, We probably can all agree this was wee bit too close...………..
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He must have been talking about aftermarket pick ups because no factory pick up should be that far from the pan.
Sorry guy the 68 street hemi roadrunner engine , and the 67 hemi satellite I had came out that way from the factory. I bought a used hemi tierod type alum. pan off of Jim Hale back in the day and put it on the 68 engine when I switched it over to superstock, and set it up the same way, that engine was raced for 14 yrs. and never had an oiling problem, was wore out but still would lay it down when sold. Now a street car again. Just my experience on the subject , urs may vary. LOL
 
You didn't read that about that OE pickup. It needs to touch the bottom of the pan. Anything else is wrong.
First...I appreciate everyones input. This is the first I've heard of the touching thing. But ya know...this is the only engine I've built, so it's theoretically possible I missed something. LOL

I've read the 1/4-3/8 in various forums...this included. In shopping for a new pickup, I came across this in 440source. Both indicate a required space between pickup and pan.

I originally built it with a 1/4"-ish gap. Then blasted terra firma with it, precisely closing that clearance to basically nothing. No i have pressure issues. THIS MAY NOT EVEN BE THE PROBLEM. I'll find out soon.

Thanks everybody!

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My gut tells me you should check that all the lifters are in their bore. (shrug)
Your symptoms are kinda opposite a lifter floating up and down the bore, till it got revved enuff to pop it right out the bore.
If a lifter popped out of a bore, I'd be inclined to think it's run like crap. Runs like a stalled dog when It has pressure and I can actually drive it. This problem has been on and off for a bit. Maybe the last 400 miles or so.
 
First...I appreciate everyones input. This is the first I've heard of the touching thing. But ya know...this is the only engine I've built, so it's theoretically possible I missed something. LOL

I've read the 1/4-3/8 in various forums...this included. In shopping for a new pickup, I came across this in 440source. Both indicate a required space between pickup and pan.

I originally built it with a 1/4"-ish gap. Then blasted terra firma with it, precisely closing that clearance to basically nothing. No i have pressure issues. THIS MAY NOT EVEN BE THE PROBLEM. I'll find out soon.

Thanks everybody!

View attachment 1715216082



Go get a a Factory Service Manual and see what the engineers who made the **** says. Who made the dude a 440source an expert?

I sure ain't an expert, but I've been doing this long enough to tell you that 440source is DEAD WRONG.

And what you did to your pan didn't do anything. All it did was either A) fix the clearance issue you had, or B) it just bent the pick up with the bottom of the pan.
 
Sorry guy the 68 street hemi roadrunner engine , and the 67 hemi satellite I had came out that way from the factory. I bought a used hemi tierod type alum. pan off of Jim Hale back in the day and put it on the 68 engine when I switched it over to superstock, and set it up the same way, that engine was raced for 14 yrs. and never had an oiling problem, was wore out but still would lay it down when sold. Now a street car again. Just my experience on the subject , urs may vary. LOL


Then Tom Hoover is wrong. Always was wrong about that, and will always be wrong about that.

That style pick up is not meant to be away from the pan floor. You move it off the floor and it won't pull oil.

As for the Super Stock pan...it doesn't use a stock style pickup, so yes, .250-.375 is correct.
 
Then Tom Hoover is wrong. Always was wrong about that, and will always be wrong about that.

That style pick up is not meant to be away from the pan floor. You move it off the floor and it won't pull oil.

As for the Super Stock pan...it doesn't use a stock style pickup, so yes, .250-.375 is correct.

My alum pan did use a stock pick up, I extended it w/ 1/2'' pipe. I bolted the pan up, hanging off the side of the block, used a rosebud tip to bend the extension to fit and custom cut the length. Worked for 14 yrs, like I said. I don`t want to start a pissing match, but I `d take the "grand father" of the hemi`s word over a reg. machinist mech. any day, He was instrumental in the development and testing the dam thing to start with. He was in on the original idea to bring back the hemi heads to a bigger and later block. The guy was a genius ! I f u ever talked to him, or attended one of his dragracing seminars , u would agree!
How come the 440 I built my 505 out of had almost the same clearance, bone stock, never tore down before ?? It was a little over 1/4".. Oughta here------
 
Then Tom Hoover is wrong. Always was wrong about that, and will always be wrong about that.

That style pick up is not meant to be away from the pan floor. You move it off the floor and it won't pull oil.

As for the Super Stock pan...it doesn't use a stock style pickup, so yes, .250-.375 is correct.
Again, thanks for the input. Educate me please: Why won't it pull oil if it's a little off the floor of the pan?? Frankly, there's conflicting information about where it needs to be. The little cutout on the pickup kinda looks like it does belong on the floor of the pan. You have any idea why it needs to be there?? And aftermarket ones need to be raised a bit?? Not questioning...just looking for enlightenment. Thanks!
 
If a lifter popped out of a bore, I'd be inclined to think it's run like crap. Runs like a stalled dog when It has pressure and I can actually drive it. This problem has been on and off for a bit. Maybe the last 400 miles or so.

I agree absolutely, it should run like crap.
It's a possitive displacement pump, with atmopheric pressure pushing down on the oil, the pickup can be 4 inches off the bottom, as long as it is submerged, atmospheric pressure will force oil anywhere there is lower pressure.
IF the pump is turning, the oil is going somewhere.
You didn't mention if there was oil in the filter.
Any air sucked into the pump will make oil frothy/foamy.
The volume of oil lost suggests an open galley.
Ergo, - easiest is lifter, it gets tuffer after that.
My $ .02
Good luck
 
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Again, thanks for the input. Educate me please: Why won't it pull oil if it's a little off the floor of the pan?? Frankly, there's conflicting information about where it needs to be. The little cutout on the pickup kinda looks like it does belong on the floor of the pan. You have any idea why it needs to be there?? And aftermarket ones need to be raised a bit?? Not questioning...just looking for enlightenment. Thanks!



There is no conflicting information out there if you use a Factory Service Manual. It explains it clearly.

Again, I've seen so many broken Chrysler engines because guys did this **** wrong. We had a LONG, DRAWN out discussion about this very thing in the small block section.

The shape of the pickup, the style, where it pulls the oil from, even where the pickup tube enters the strainer affects how the pickup pulls oil off the pan.

So think about this a just a minute, and it will make sense. Or it should.

The factory pan holds 4 quarts of oil. That's all. That isn't much. Then you have one in the filter. Now think about what's going on when you drive down the road. You have almost a quart in the system, and another quart or a bit more falling back to the pan, trying to get past the thrashing crank and rods so it doesn't have an easy trip. And between both heads you hold another quart.

My name isn't Tom Hoover but I can do simple math. That leaves about a quart or so of oil in the pan. We don't need an engineering degree to understand this do we? (Pardon my sarcasm but this **** is really elementary and I don't care who has what paper on their wall to prove how March schooling they have).

To visualize this better now that you have some idea what's going on in the engine while bebopping down the road, we can do a quick test to see why the pickup needs to be touching the floor of the pan, other than me saying that's how it's engineered.

Take a stock pan and fill it with a quart of water. Get in your car, and have your wife hold the pan with the quart of oil in it.

Now. Pull to a stop sign. The gun it away from that stop sign. Then prepare to listen to your wife ***** because she is now wearing the water. Now, get running about 50 or so, and do a hard stop. Now you get to listen to the bitching because the little bit of water in the pan is now on her feet and I'll say she's pretty pissed (don't ask how I know this...just know I took this bullet for you way back in 1981).

The point is, with a stock pan, the available oil and most any given time is about a quart. If the pickup isn't touching the floor of the pan, it will suck air. Think about it. Even a 1/4 inch off the floor makes it hard for the pickup to pull oil.

Now, get a 1/2 quart low on oil and you will be in the suck.

That's why the engineers who developed this **** designed it the way they did.

The pickup MUST touch the bottom of the pan, and IDGAF who says otherwise. If that bothers you, get an aftermarket pan and matching pickup and then set the pickup clearance accordingly.

Can't tell you how many guys with 13 second cars, who did their own assembly would call me and say the oil light comes on if I stop hard. Or better yet, they say oil pressure drops to zero at the end of the track and comes back when I get to the return road. Then it starts a discussion that goes like this:

ME: did you set the pickup to pan clearance?
CUSTOMER: sure did.
ME: what's it at?
CUSTOMER: between a 1/4 and 3/8, right where it should be.
ME: that's wrong.
CUSTOMER: it's where I always set them.
ME: how's that working for you?
CUSTOMER: no need to be a dick.
ME: no need to be a pussy. This is your fault. The pickup needs to touch the pan.
CUSTOMER: now what?
ME: pull it apart and fix it.
CUSTOMER: **** THAT! I'm not pulling the engine to fix that.
ME: then live with it and be ready to kick a bone out shortly. Hopefully you haven't scrapped anything yet.
CUSTOMER: there isn't anything else I can do?
ME: yes, but you aren't fixing it. You are taking the sissy way out.
CUSTOMER: I don't care.
ME: add a quart of oil until it stops dropping pressure.

Which at that point, I no longer will work on this dudes ****. He is a problem child. I send him down the road for some other poor sucker to baby sit.

And we haven't even broached the subject of what happens when you open up bearing clearances, when oil is leaking past the lifters like a gusher and pulling more oil from the pan. And how the oil gets the **** beat out of it, trying to get past the spinning crank and rods.

You have a problem. But smashing the pan isn't your issue.

Again, I don't care WHO says you need the pickup away from the pan. That style pan and pickup should be touching.

Unless you want to run extra oil in a pan not designed for it.

Now you know more than the incompetent dickhead at 440source who produced that stupid thing you posted.

And I didn't even charge you for it. In fact, call 440source tomorrow and tell them yellow rose said to kiss my *** for their ignorance.
 
I agree absolutely, it should run like crap.
It's a possitive displacement pump, with atmopheric pressure pushing down on the oil, the pickup can be 4 inches off the bottom, as long as it is submerged, atmospheric pressure will force oil anywhere there is lower pressure.
If the pump is turning, the oil is going somewhere.
You didn't mention if there was oil in the filter.
Any air sucked into the pump will make oil frothy/foamy.
The volume of oil lost suggests an open galley.
Ergo, easiest is lifter, it gets tuffer after that.
My $ .02
Good luck


There is so much wrong here I'm not even going to answer it.

You need to read the post I just made and stop telling people the pickup can be 4 inches off the bottom because no one will read the part that say AS LONG AS ITS SUBMURGED, because it won't be SUBMERGED on a stock pan and that's what we are discussing.


**** ME
 
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