Cope
Fusing with fire
I dont understand how you can get 8 1/2' back? I thought the top of the closet was 2'
What beam are you referring to?
What beam are you referring to?
spiral staircase for loft
- Thread starter diymirage
- Start date
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diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
I'll grab some better pictures tomorrow
This room is on the main floor, but there is a finished basement below it
It looks like the frame of the closet is 2x4s
Now, do I read it right that you are suggesting I build a platform that sits on top of the closet, and extends out from There?
This room is on the main floor, but there is a finished basement below it
It looks like the frame of the closet is 2x4s
Now, do I read it right that you are suggesting I build a platform that sits on top of the closet, and extends out from There?
Cope
Fusing with fire
Cope
Fusing with fire
Just realised because you're sistering above existing studs it will look like this.
The three board would be for a free spanning floor joist.
Basically what your doing is building a small deck. Look up deck building on U tube and you should have a good idea of what need doing.
The three board would be for a free spanning floor joist.
Basically what your doing is building a small deck. Look up deck building on U tube and you should have a good idea of what need doing.
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diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
Thanks Cope, I'll look at those drawings when I am on a laptop and I can actually see them. In the meantime, here are a few pictures I've taken they don't show you a whole lot but what is really interesting is the trim on the inside of the closet. It leads me to believe that the inside of the closet was at some point the outside of a wall, because I don't see why else they would put that kind of trim on there. Which leads me to Hope that at least there is some structure in the frame of that closet.
The first two pictures are the top of the closet / Landing, then there is the outside trim of the closet and finally inside of the closet
The first two pictures are the top of the closet / Landing, then there is the outside trim of the closet and finally inside of the closet
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
missed this post somehow
the 8 1/2 foot is the width of the closet/landing that is there now, and it is indeed only 2 foot deep
the beam i am referring to, if we stick with our deck analogy, would be long horizontal section of the deck frame
(sorry, im not a carpenter, and some of this makes sense in my head, but i dont know how to say it in a way that makes sense to a carpenter)
Cope
Fusing with fire
That "beam" would be called a ledger.
It should be held in place with big screws, use these in 4". RSS™ Rugged Structural Screw
Two on each stud, dont burry the head. Make sure they are center of your studs.
Use these to hang your new joist ( when referring to joist, no matter if you have one joist or fifty, its always joist. Not joists.) In 8.5" you should have seven joist. Plus one top plate on each wall. Giving you a total 9 new joist to hold your floor. Seven can be hung off the ledger and the hangars. Like these.
APLH
The Last two I would sister into the top plates. This will require cutting the drywall.
Now we have nine joist sticking out and floating. dont count the first our the last joist. Start on number 3. Come in from the end 1.5" and attach your floor to ceiling stud ( post in the deck world). Do that on joist numbers 3, 5, 7. Now make blocks out of 2x4 that are 16" and tie all the ends of the joist together. These blocks will but up to the new stud (post) and be flush with the end of the joist. (That's why our posts are set back 1.5"
) now its looking like something right but it's not done yet cut one more 2x4 that is the entire length from joist 1 to 9 and cap all the joist ends and blocks with one solid piece of lumber.
Now you can lay your 3/4 plywood. Make sure it goes all the way back to where the roof hit the wall. You want as much nailing (use 3" screws, nailing is a term) as you can get. This will make it very strong.
As I'm typing this I get the feeling you wanna build this without busting and replacing drywall? While its ALMOST possible I would not do it like that. In that note tho, I realised that the three floor to ceiling studs don't need to be like that. For one you dont wanna bust drywall to tie into the roof and two the entire thing is in compression anyway.
So for those 3 posts, (now they truly are just posts, they're no longer studs) just come up 36" above the new floor of the loft and BAM, slap a 2x4 across the top. This caps the cut ends of the posts and is the hand rail for the loft. Just fill in with 1×1 every 2 or 3 inches and you got a fine looking deck rail!
Now we still gotta build an opening for your dang stairs so I'll have to see the stairs, top and bottom, diameter of the spiral and does the spiral even work at the height of your new floor...
AGAIN THIS IS NOT GONNA PASS CODE (although it might if you used 4x4 for the posts?) I never built a deck inside a house...
It should be held in place with big screws, use these in 4". RSS™ Rugged Structural Screw
Two on each stud, dont burry the head. Make sure they are center of your studs.
Use these to hang your new joist ( when referring to joist, no matter if you have one joist or fifty, its always joist. Not joists.) In 8.5" you should have seven joist. Plus one top plate on each wall. Giving you a total 9 new joist to hold your floor. Seven can be hung off the ledger and the hangars. Like these.
APLH
The Last two I would sister into the top plates. This will require cutting the drywall.
Now we have nine joist sticking out and floating. dont count the first our the last joist. Start on number 3. Come in from the end 1.5" and attach your floor to ceiling stud ( post in the deck world). Do that on joist numbers 3, 5, 7. Now make blocks out of 2x4 that are 16" and tie all the ends of the joist together. These blocks will but up to the new stud (post) and be flush with the end of the joist. (That's why our posts are set back 1.5"
) now its looking like something right but it's not done yet cut one more 2x4 that is the entire length from joist 1 to 9 and cap all the joist ends and blocks with one solid piece of lumber.Now you can lay your 3/4 plywood. Make sure it goes all the way back to where the roof hit the wall. You want as much nailing (use 3" screws, nailing is a term) as you can get. This will make it very strong.
As I'm typing this I get the feeling you wanna build this without busting and replacing drywall? While its ALMOST possible I would not do it like that. In that note tho, I realised that the three floor to ceiling studs don't need to be like that. For one you dont wanna bust drywall to tie into the roof and two the entire thing is in compression anyway.
So for those 3 posts, (now they truly are just posts, they're no longer studs) just come up 36" above the new floor of the loft and BAM, slap a 2x4 across the top. This caps the cut ends of the posts and is the hand rail for the loft. Just fill in with 1×1 every 2 or 3 inches and you got a fine looking deck rail!
Now we still gotta build an opening for your dang stairs so I'll have to see the stairs, top and bottom, diameter of the spiral and does the spiral even work at the height of your new floor...
AGAIN THIS IS NOT GONNA PASS CODE (although it might if you used 4x4 for the posts?) I never built a deck inside a house...
Cope
Fusing with fire
Wow I think that's the longest post I've ever written on here.. feeling a little like Mr AJ...
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
thanks Cope, that makes perfect sense
i have some of the screws you mentioned from a carport were building outside (contractor buddy thought that up, so i know its good)
as for the attachement of the stairs, that i the easy part
if you look at the picture in the first post, that is how the spiral stairs will also attach
(there is a channel welded to the stairs, that will bolt to the deck...the outer ledger?)
so that is easy, we just run the railing short at the very end
i have some of the screws you mentioned from a carport were building outside (contractor buddy thought that up, so i know its good)
as for the attachement of the stairs, that i the easy part
if you look at the picture in the first post, that is how the spiral stairs will also attach
(there is a channel welded to the stairs, that will bolt to the deck...the outer ledger?)
so that is easy, we just run the railing short at the very end
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
couple more measurements, the channel in the above pic is 89 inches from the ground
the top of the landing right now is 97 inches high, which means the last step will be about 22 inches
it also means i need to find a way to mount it, because right now it will go under the outside ledger
now, on the floor, wouldnt it make sense to lay that down before we do the floor to ceiling studs?
seems easier and sturdier because then it can hit he joist cap/outer ledger?
the top of the landing right now is 97 inches high, which means the last step will be about 22 inches
it also means i need to find a way to mount it, because right now it will go under the outside ledger
now, on the floor, wouldnt it make sense to lay that down before we do the floor to ceiling studs?
seems easier and sturdier because then it can hit he joist cap/outer ledger?
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
so, i think it makes more sense (and would be a whole lot cleaner/sturdier) if i build a pedestal to put the stairs on
this would act as the first step and ensure that the last step levels real nice with the "deck"
now, one last question before i start tomorrow (ok, 2)
@Cope, you mentioned 7 joist (no S, see, im learning already) i take it i space them out evenly?
and the two outer joist (i know, were not counting them) those get the same structural screws into the studs as well, right?
and when the cap goes on, i jsut screw them into the joist right, no joist hangers there?
this would act as the first step and ensure that the last step levels real nice with the "deck"
now, one last question before i start tomorrow (ok, 2)
@Cope, you mentioned 7 joist (no S, see, im learning already) i take it i space them out evenly?
and the two outer joist (i know, were not counting them) those get the same structural screws into the studs as well, right?
and when the cap goes on, i jsut screw them into the joist right, no joist hangers there?
Cope
Fusing with fire
The first and the last joist will be in hangars and also screwed into the wall studs. They basically become just like the first ledger only shorter.
Space the studs out even, 12 or 16" is code.
When you pick a screw remember the length of the screw is twice the length of what your screwing through. So when you screw through 1.5" 2x4 you want a 3" screw but remember now you're screwing through drywall also. That's why I recomend 4" screws for the three ledger boards.
I dont understand what your talking about laying down first?
You do not want a 22 inch step. Uneven step heights get folks hurt. Your brain ain't ready for steps to change heights and you trip falling down the stairs.. its BAD.
I had a home owner btching to the inspector one time that one step was 1/8th inch higher and how dangerous it was. The inspector looked at him and said "it's fine, maybe you should go inside".... I think the inspector didn't want me to bash the guy with my hammer....
No need for hangars on the cap end. The ends get tied together with short blocks then the entire thing gets capped making it very solid.
Remember this is built like a deck but its tied into a closet that I cant see the framing on and have no idea how well its built. This is for kids, not storing engine blocks or dance partys....
Best of luck and post lots of pics as you build it so I and the rest can see how it looks.
In fact I'll send you my number and you can call me with any questions as I'll be working and not checking this site.
Space the studs out even, 12 or 16" is code.
When you pick a screw remember the length of the screw is twice the length of what your screwing through. So when you screw through 1.5" 2x4 you want a 3" screw but remember now you're screwing through drywall also. That's why I recomend 4" screws for the three ledger boards.
I dont understand what your talking about laying down first?
You do not want a 22 inch step. Uneven step heights get folks hurt. Your brain ain't ready for steps to change heights and you trip falling down the stairs.. its BAD.
I had a home owner btching to the inspector one time that one step was 1/8th inch higher and how dangerous it was. The inspector looked at him and said "it's fine, maybe you should go inside".... I think the inspector didn't want me to bash the guy with my hammer....
No need for hangars on the cap end. The ends get tied together with short blocks then the entire thing gets capped making it very solid.
Remember this is built like a deck but its tied into a closet that I cant see the framing on and have no idea how well its built. This is for kids, not storing engine blocks or dance partys....
Best of luck and post lots of pics as you build it so I and the rest can see how it looks.
In fact I'll send you my number and you can call me with any questions as I'll be working and not checking this site.
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
ok, a few updates
the closet frame is strong enough to hold my 210 pounds, so thats a good sign
on the right hand side, there is a horizontal beam in the wall, so i will be able to support part of the deck on there as well
on the left hand side, im just going to have to find studs
i got the ledger in, as per Cope's instructions, so 2 RSSs (not ROUS's that would be bad) deadcenter on the studs
of course my local hardware store didnt have any concealed flange/inverse flare joist hangers for 2X4s so i bought two for 2X6s and cut them down, and installed regular joist hangers at 12 1/2 inch intervals (for 7 total)
once i decide the exact width of the deck, i can start cutting joist and install them
looks like im making pretty decent progress here
(pay no mind to the extension cord coming out of the wall, that will be cut and wired into a wall outlet before this project is finished)
the closet frame is strong enough to hold my 210 pounds, so thats a good sign
on the right hand side, there is a horizontal beam in the wall, so i will be able to support part of the deck on there as well
on the left hand side, im just going to have to find studs
i got the ledger in, as per Cope's instructions, so 2 RSSs (not ROUS's that would be bad) deadcenter on the studs
of course my local hardware store didnt have any concealed flange/inverse flare joist hangers for 2X4s so i bought two for 2X6s and cut them down, and installed regular joist hangers at 12 1/2 inch intervals (for 7 total)
once i decide the exact width of the deck, i can start cutting joist and install them
looks like im making pretty decent progress here
(pay no mind to the extension cord coming out of the wall, that will be cut and wired into a wall outlet before this project is finished)
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
Ok, I decided the joists need to be 48 inches
That will put the outer edge 26 inches past the closet wall, which gives me a 1 inch error margin because I think in need 25 inches under the deck for the stairs
I got about 5 of the joists in before I ran out of time , but I only took a picture of the first
(As you can tell, I found 3 studs there)
That will put the outer edge 26 inches past the closet wall, which gives me a 1 inch error margin because I think in need 25 inches under the deck for the stairs
I got about 5 of the joists in before I ran out of time , but I only took a picture of the first
(As you can tell, I found 3 studs there)
Cope
Fusing with fire
Ok, now I get why we weren't on the same page.
Nothing wrong with that.
Looks good bud!
Nothing wrong with that.
Looks good bud!
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
It looks like the deck will be about 101 inches
The stairs are 90 inches to the top, so I just need to build a box 12 by 25, by 11 inches tall to set the stairs on and then i can figure out where the railings will go
The stairs are 90 inches to the top, so I just need to build a box 12 by 25, by 11 inches tall to set the stairs on and then i can figure out where the railings will go
Cope
Fusing with fire
That's looking realy good! Great job.
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
thanks Cope
as @AJ/FormS mentioned, i need to make sure the back part of the deck doesnt seesaw when i put weight on the front
the two outer joist are secured with RSS (6 on ones, 8 on the other) in studs and a horizontal beam
the ledger also has RSSs in it, AND the stairs will also be acting as a post so im not too worried about the whole thing tipping over
however...i was considering putting a "double" wall on the very back, above the ledger by running a few studs up to the ceiling
that way, even if all the other supports would fail, and the front end would try to teeter totter down, the roof/ceiling pressing down on the double wall and keep everything in place
does that sound like it makes sense and is worth the effort or am i over thinking things?
as @AJ/FormS mentioned, i need to make sure the back part of the deck doesnt seesaw when i put weight on the front
the two outer joist are secured with RSS (6 on ones, 8 on the other) in studs and a horizontal beam
the ledger also has RSSs in it, AND the stairs will also be acting as a post so im not too worried about the whole thing tipping over
however...i was considering putting a "double" wall on the very back, above the ledger by running a few studs up to the ceiling
that way, even if all the other supports would fail, and the front end would try to teeter totter down, the roof/ceiling pressing down on the double wall and keep everything in place
does that sound like it makes sense and is worth the effort or am i over thinking things?
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
so it looks like i need to trim the post down to make it fit
since there is a pitch to the ceiling, it would be hard for me to cut it nicely, at an angle that matches and looks good
would it be a good idea to cut the post level with the deck, and have the railing right there, or should i cut it level with the top of the railing?
since there is a pitch to the ceiling, it would be hard for me to cut it nicely, at an angle that matches and looks good
would it be a good idea to cut the post level with the deck, and have the railing right there, or should i cut it level with the top of the railing?
Cope
Fusing with fire
Cut it at railing height minus the 1.5" for the cap rail.
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
ooh, i like that idea, that would look nice
i got the decking in, 2 sheets, 48X51 and on strip of 7 1/2X51 in the center
i dont like how the center one sit, so ill tear that off tomorrow, trim it and put it back
i also got the box built that the stairs will sit on
i made it 10 1/2 tall, 12 wide and 28 long
the frame of the box are 4 simple pieces of 4x4, so that the stairs will sit solidly on that
im afraid im about as far as i can go, until i get the stairs painted and in the room
i got the decking in, 2 sheets, 48X51 and on strip of 7 1/2X51 in the center
i dont like how the center one sit, so ill tear that off tomorrow, trim it and put it back
i also got the box built that the stairs will sit on
i made it 10 1/2 tall, 12 wide and 28 long
the frame of the box are 4 simple pieces of 4x4, so that the stairs will sit solidly on that
im afraid im about as far as i can go, until i get the stairs painted and in the room
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
Got a little more work done (I'll upload some pics, then edit in the text on my laptop)
ok, so this first pic shows the left hand railing frame
i glued and screwed it together, then mocked it up and put a few drywall anchors behind it
i obviously wouldnt trust these anchors to hold it up, but i dont mind them for extra support
View attachment 1715235085
my little boy helping out, seems like it holds him up just fine
he better enjoy it while he can, because im sure once its done his sister will turn it into a "girls only" place
here i have both frames up
screwed into the deck, a few anchors in the left wall and ceiling, and a few more screws on the right wall (seems to be wood all the way)
if your wondering why there are 2x4s in the center, that is where the stairs will attach
finally, i started putting some slats up, tongue and groove
i had one more box laying around from when i insulated a shed
almost made it all the way across, but i was a few slats shy
i guess one more box of slats, some carpet and im done...except for the stairs
oh, and i know the railing is not up to code, im not worried about it, the wife allready informed me we will die in this house (she didnt give me a timeline on that one) so...not my problem
ok, so this first pic shows the left hand railing frame
i glued and screwed it together, then mocked it up and put a few drywall anchors behind it
i obviously wouldnt trust these anchors to hold it up, but i dont mind them for extra support
View attachment 1715235085
my little boy helping out, seems like it holds him up just fine
he better enjoy it while he can, because im sure once its done his sister will turn it into a "girls only" place
here i have both frames up
screwed into the deck, a few anchors in the left wall and ceiling, and a few more screws on the right wall (seems to be wood all the way)
if your wondering why there are 2x4s in the center, that is where the stairs will attach
finally, i started putting some slats up, tongue and groove
i had one more box laying around from when i insulated a shed
almost made it all the way across, but i was a few slats shy
i guess one more box of slats, some carpet and im done...except for the stairs
oh, and i know the railing is not up to code, im not worried about it, the wife allready informed me we will die in this house (she didnt give me a timeline on that one) so...not my problem
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