318 vs 360 Rebuild...

-
What is your intended use, realistic goal and budget?

Get your 360 block sonic checked and go from there.
 
Get with BP on the exact parts needed and let them know exactly what you have and what you want to do. They can just about sew this up for you.

The engine link you have pictured has Magnum heads. So the LA intake can not be readily used. Ask BP what aluminum head style is used on the other engine.I see an LA head pictured but it should be asked! As to avoid headaches!

Yeah, I overlooked the alu heads thinking the price would be too high, but then looked at the price, it's only $800 more and looks like a lot more engine. Funny I was gonna ask you about the differences in the two and if the $800 was worth it, but after I read the specs I decided that the one with alu heads is the one I want. The cam should be fine for what I'm doing. Just putting around town, HA! Romping in the country is more like it, lol! Back in the day you could actually put the pedal to the metal in town, now there are so many cars I could hurt someone or myself doing that, so I stick to country highways now. I have a storage unit out in the country so I never need to drive it in town any more... Saves the gas driving out to the country and back to town every time, bout 20 miles each way!

But thanks for noticing that. If would either need to sell my Air Gap and buy a Magnum Air Gap, or swap the heads, I would rather sell the "Brand New" Air Gap and buy one for a Mag. I swear it has maybe 30 miles on it.

I'm wondering about headers now. Hooker makes some for a 360, would 5901HKR headers work? I mean port wise match up? The outside primary tube dia is 1-5/8". They have 3" outlets which I plan to keep the 3" all the way to the rear. What size cherry bombs should I use, I mean length wise. This engine should keep up with my Holley 750 DP you think? Or would it need even more CFM?

Is it a good idea to go with solid steel motor-mounts? Seems like it would vibrate my car apart.

All in all you have been very helpful so far. I will let you know if I need anything. If you think of anything else, please post.
 
What is your intended use, realistic goal and budget?

Get your 360 block sonic checked and go from there.

I'm just going to be recreational use in the country, lots of highway and lots of takin' off in deserted areas.

I'm leery of the existing block, it is 60 over already and I put the screws to it, put some pepper on it, and dyno'ed it a lot.

$7,000 is realistic with maybe a couple overruns. The engine I'm looking at now is $5,800. I will still need headers, motor mounts, cherry bombs, and I might need a bigger carb, not sure.

I will be needing a 727 that will keep up with it but if I can't get it with the $7G I have for the rebuild, I can wait, the one in it works, it's just stock.
 
One thing I like about 360s especially for the street,is that when you put tall flat-tops in them (like the KB 107/191s or similar),you instantly have some compression to work with. And the biggest part of that is the 740/750 or more CCs of swept volume. It is a lot easier/cheaper to get to 10/1 or more Scr, with a 360. And when you get there, you can put some cam into it and still have enough bottom end to not have to run a big TC or race gears to get moving. That close-to-zero deck gives you a lot of flexibility in choosing the top-end. Flexibility that you can use to tailor the engine to your needs and/or expectations.


Probably going with a BPE engine. The second one with the alu heads listed in Rob's post. Looks like a reasonably good deal.
 
Left side motor mount is different from 318 to 340 & 360. Some guys have made the left one work by adding shims to take up space. I went to Carlisle over the summer and picked up the correct mounts. Shumacher makes them but a little pricey but is worth the assurance of using the right mount.

Are the Shumacher MM's solid or is there some type of vibration absorbing material to them?
 
I'm wondering about headers now. Hooker makes some for a 360, would 5901HKR headers work?
I would have to see a picture so I’ll check one out on line tomorrow. Otherwise the best fitting header is ether Doug’s or TTI
I mean port wise match up?
Port wise, the Magnum is square and most of the other LA heads are the same but not always exactly. The miss match is not to be concerned with.
The outside primary tube dia is 1-5/8". They have 3" outlets which I plan to keep the 3" all the way to the rear.
What size cherry bombs should I use, I mean length wise.
If your doing 3 inches.......
This engine should keep up with my Holley 750 DP you think?
It’ll be fine for the intended use.

Or would it need even more CFM?
While more would help I don’t think you’ll feel much of a difference.

Is it a good idea to go with solid steel motor-mounts?
No. Regular engine mounts will be fine vibration wise. Schumacher creative Services has an engine torque strap. I’ll picture it in the next post. Simple and effective no vibration.
 
This is a Schumacher creative services torque strap installed on a 360 and a 67 Cuda with OE replacement rubber mounts.
Headers by TTI. A most minor clearancing behind the manual steering box.


9F7AAD31-67D0-48D9-B2C3-591FC167E3A2.jpeg
 
Way slick looking engine compartment you have there!

Yeah, I will invest in a torque strap and use the poly mounts from Schumacher. I see that the top mounts to the motor mount, what does the bottom mount to? Did you have to drill a hole to bolt it through?

LOL on the 3" Mufflers, I don't know if they create much back pressure, but seeings how they are glass pack and blow out anyway, I guess your right, it probably wouldn't matter.

What brand and model, prt# if you have it, for the headers in your Cuda? If I can get some that are similar in primary diameter, I think that may be best. Are those 1-5/8"?

BTW, do you know where to get a good used/rebuilt power steering gear box for a 70 Duster? I need one, and may as well do it now!

I looked at the Suggested Parts on the site and the 750 is recommended. Also a weighted flex plate for a non-mag engine. Do you know where to get one? The one in my car now is stock.

Is there anything I am overlooking before I buy this engine? I am ready to, but I will have to wait 4-6 weeks while they build it. Longest 4-6 weeks of my life!
 
Way slick looking engine compartment you have there!
Thank you!
Yeah, I will invest in a torque strap and use the poly mounts from Schumacher. I see that the top mounts to the motor mount, what does the bottom mount to? Did you have to drill a hole to bolt it through?
The bottom is a bent top “U” shape that bolts to the K frame. Depth wise, it is a box slanted downwards. I think I had to drill 1 hole. I forget. I’ve done a bunch of these in the last. The Poly mount is stiffer than the rubber which I used.
What brand and model, prt# if you have it, for the headers in your Cuda? If I can get some that are similar in primary diameter, I think that may be best. Are those 1-5/8"?
These are TTI headers. Go to there site for information. There tube size is stepped from 1-5/8 - 1-3/4.

BTW, do you know where to get a good used/rebuilt power steering gear box for a 70 Duster? I need one, and may as well do it now!
Try site supporter PST and tell them your on this site, FABO.

Also a weighted flex plate for a non-mag engine. Do you know where to get one? The one in my car now is stock.
Ask Blue Print for what they suggest to use.

Is there anything I am overlooking before I buy this engine? I am ready to, but I will have to wait 4-6 weeks while they build it. Longest 4-6 weeks of my life!
Hummmm, let’s see, engine mounts and torque strap, proper flex plate, headers, I don’t know... but when your short something, well, **** happens. I know we try annavoid that but.... **** happens.

Click this forum: BluePrint Engines and talk to Johnny Mac
 
Last edited:
Thanks @rumblefish360 ! my notifications have been a bit wonky lately with it saying i have messages, and then not coming up, etc. so i appreciate the TAG! or I probably would have missed it.

The aluminum headed 408 is LA based, and uses LA edelbrock heads. So LA intake is required.
the iron headed engine would require the magnum intake (Both of which we sell also)

On both, The harmonic balancer requires the magnum balance weight (most go with the pro products damper, although i am in the process of having my own damper made in the next few months)

The rear is LA360. take care to
1.get a quality torque converter matched to the engine.
2. make sure you go with a neutral balance converter, if you're doing an LA balanced flexplate.
(had a member recently buy the LA360 B&M flexplate, and then order a converer with weights on it.... so just make sure you balancer one or the other, but not both.

I have never seen a set of magnum specific headers. Any LA header for an A body should fit either of these 408's.

The above info is current as of 11/10/2018. I have some REALLY cool things in store for our mopars coming in the next....approx 6-12 months. so if you're reading the above info after that, make sure you check with me to make sure its still current.

engines
Chrysler Compatible Crate Engines

we sell a bunch of mopar add on parts also.
mopar
 
Thanks Rob,

You are sure right about **** happens. When I was about 10 yrs old, I complained about my fishing line getting snagged every time I threw it out. My dad said, "Son, everyone has their pile of **** to eat in life." To which I replied: "I think I finished mine and started on someone else's" lol! 10 years old!!! ha!

I just wasn't sure if there was something obvious I was missing. I will ask Johnny about the flex plate, and try PST for the PSbox. I found one in the for sale section, an original for a 72 Dart, It should would because that is the year and model of PSbox that is in it now. I swapped the entire steering-front end from the 72 Dart I had after it got totaled by a flying Mustang 15 years ago. This Duster had a /6 in it so I had to swap everything in the front end.

I read all the posts by Johnny in the BPE post. He said the few HP of boost by the 1-3/4" over the 1-5/8" headers may not be worth the $500 price increase. What is that but an 1/8" anyway? I mean I know the tubes are long, but $500 for an 1/8"?? Someone likes pokin' us in the eye!

I thought I may have to drill a hole where that strap goes, but it is a lot more professional looking than a chain, lol? Poly mounts sound good, I didn't like the idea of solid mounts. If I can't figure or they don't have instructions on where to mount the strap I will ask when I get it.

I appreciate your help!
 
Oh, by the way, if you need a distributor, check out. Blue Print’s ready to run units I spoke with @Johnny Mac abiut them and I choose a MSD like unit. There the same distributor but sold a lot cheaper than MSD. Same thing. Awesome unit in the wife’s ride.

So J-Mac said above, LA head and external 360 LA balance. A B&M flex plate designed for the external balanced LA 360 for use with a neutral balance torque converter I have done twice with smooth running results.
 
Oh, by the way, if you need a distributor, check out. Blue Print’s ready to run units I spoke with @Johnny Mac abiut them and I choose a MSD like unit. There the same distributor but sold a lot cheaper than MSD. Same thing. Awesome unit in the wife’s ride.

So J-Mac said above, LA head and external 360 LA balance. A B&M flex plate designed for the external balanced LA 360 for use with a neutral balance torque converter I have done twice with smooth running results.

Yeah, my Air Gap will work after all, cool! I'm fairly certain J Mac said I need a Magnum Weighted Balancer in the front. Could you double check on that for me. I already have the LA Balanced style one in there now. I would like to leave the TC as is because I have to replace the tranny soon now too. I probably shouldn't try to push 5g RPM under extreme acceleration until I get a new tranny with stall converter, but I'm not planning to race it anyway. I wonder how you feel about that? Should I go ahead and get a stall TC now, or just use the same TC for now, probably will replace the trans before summer.

Do you know Halifaxhops here in the forum? He rebuilds and sells Distributors. I asked him for his take on what I need to run street wise. I'm not sure which one I really need to put in. I don't want to skimp on $200 for economical purposes unless that $200 won't make much difference. I know when I switched from points to Electronic Ignition, wow. So if it is like that, I will go with the middle grade Dist. and the box BPE sells. BTW, do I need a better control module if I'm upping the voltage? OEM is in there now.
 
Magnum damper, la360 flexplate.
Pro products 80012. (I'm manufacturing / launching my own, but a few months out probably)

Torque converter is a matter of stall speed and matching. Not new vs old. I have had a mismatched converter kill 2 seconds of quarter mile ET. Got one custom made, dropped from 14.2 to 12.2. Back when I was younger and less worldly :p
 
I wonder how you feel about that? Should I go ahead and get a stall TC now, or just use the same TC for now, probably will replace the trans before summer.
If it were myself, I’d do everything fresh and updated for the new combo. I wouldn’t waste time any other way.

Do you know Halifaxhops here in the forum? He rebuilds and sells Distributors. I asked him for his take on what I need to run street wise. I'm not sure which one I really need to put in. I don't want to skimp on $200 for economical purposes unless that $200 won't make much difference. I know when I switched from points to Electronic Ignition, wow. So if it is like that, I will go with the middle grade Dist. and the box BPE sells. BTW, do I need a better control module if I'm upping the voltage? OEM is in there now.
Halifaxhops Is a “Goodfella” in my book and will book you up right. Some guys just like to get a new distributor rather than run an old one. The important thing is that it does it’s job right and well. Halifaxhops Can put the curve into the distributor for you once you have all the specs of the car.

Going to an electronic system from points is an entire system upgrade. Do the whole thing and that is it. No worries from there. When it comes to an electronic control box, I like the MP Chrome unit or the FBO unit. Use with the matching coil and ballast resister and your done. I don’t like the Orange box. I had only two worth there salt. And they were good for there intended purposes. Once I used the Chrome box, I sold my Orange boxes.
 
Magnum damper, la360 flexplate.
Pro products 80012. (I'm manufacturing / launching my own, but a few months out probably)

Torque converter is a matter of stall speed and matching. Not new vs old. I have had a mismatched converter kill 2 seconds of quarter mile ET. Got one custom made, dropped from 14.2 to 12.2. Back when I was younger and less worldly :p

If I'm right, you're suggesting between 2000 and 2400 stall right? For street use, would a 2200 work good? I really don't need to launch, and I do need come up to speed a bit before the converter locks, so I'm thinkin' 2200 may work for me. What do you think?
 
If it were myself, I’d do everything fresh and updated for the new combo. I wouldn’t waste time any other way.


Halifaxhops Is a “Goodfella” in my book and will book you up right. Some guys just like to get a new distributor rather than run an old one. The important thing is that it does it’s job right and well. Halifaxhops Can put the curve into the distributor for you once you have all the specs of the car.

Going to an electronic system from points is an entire system upgrade. Do the whole thing and that is it. No worries from there. When it comes to an electronic control box, I like the MP Chrome unit or the FBO unit. Use with the matching coil and ballast resister and your done. I don’t like the Orange box. I had only two worth there salt. And they were good for there intended purposes. Once I used the Chrome box, I sold my Orange boxes.

Where do I get a Chrome Box? Would they be on Summit? I already have electronic ignition, but it is stock, what I meant was when I went from points to EI it was a big difference. I hope it is another big step up in performance to have the HEI cap Dist. in it with the Chrome Box.

I hear ya on the new converter. There is probably 5-10 more min labor to pull the TC once the flex plate and engine have been removed right? It will be needing the flex plate upgrade anyway, either way, pay now or pay later, and if it broke, well that would just suck. So yeah, I see your point.
 
If I'm right, you're suggesting between 2000 and 2400 stall right? For street use, would a 2200 work good? I really don't need to launch, and I do need come up to speed a bit before the converter locks, so I'm thinkin' 2200 may work for me. What do you think?
2200 would be fine. Getting one specifically made for the cam specs and your vehicle is the trick. I have several contacts for converters at performance automatic, and ati.

The converter literally pulls off with a yank in 2 seconds if the engine is out.

You have alot of chefs in the kitchen on the ignition stuff. But for my 2 cents. The OEM type box isn't my favorite. I would go cdi box, or ready to run distributor. If you are "upgrading" your ignition., then still utilizing a mopar box that has the fail point of a ballast resistor isn't much of an upgrade. Imo of course
 
2200 would be fine. Getting one specifically made for the cam specs and your vehicle is the trick. I have several contacts for converters at performance automatic, and ati.

The converter literally pulls off with a yank in 2 seconds if the engine is out.

You have alot of chefs in the kitchen on the ignition stuff. But for my 2 cents. The OEM type box isn't my favorite. I would go cdi box, or ready to run distributor. If you are "upgrading" your ignition., then still utilizing a mopar box that has the fail point of a ballast resistor isn't much of an upgrade. Imo of course

Yeah, that's what I was thinkin', the thing would fall off if you jacked the back end up high enough, lol? Putting it on might take a min or so I guess.

Can you give me a 101 on Electronic Ignition? I don't need a long detailed explanation, just the jist of it will do. I understand the higher the voltage the hotter the spark, will that mean I need different plugs? And the vacc/mech advance needs to be synchronized with the acceleration of the motor, but what is the difference between the various control boxes, what are the options for the modules, and do I need a ballast if I have like a CDI box? Is the CDI box the control module or the coil box? (Showing my ignorance here) Would it take re-wiring the ignition to upgrade the voltage to 50-60,000 volts, or would the OEM ignition wires work? Like the ones between the solenoid, the key, the coil, the control module, and the dist? That is the kind of stuff I have never had the opportunity to learn. I guess now's the time : )

Whatever Dist I end up getting, I would like HaliFaxHops to work on the advance for it. Even if I mail him a brand new one and have him re-work it, that would be fine. He sold me a dist a while back that really helped my engine's output. And the only thing he did was correct the advance!
 
Yeah, that's what I was thinkin', the thing would fall off if you jacked the back end up high enough, lol? Putting it on might take a min or so I guess.

Can you give me a 101 on Electronic Ignition? I don't need a long detailed explanation, just the jist of it will do. I understand the higher the voltage the hotter the spark, will that mean I need different plugs? And the vacc/mech advance needs to be synchronized with the acceleration of the motor, but what is the difference between the various control boxes, what are the options for the modules, and do I need a ballast if I have like a CDI box? Is the CDI box the control module or the coil box? (Showing my ignorance here) Would it take re-wiring the ignition to upgrade the voltage to 50-60,000 volts, or would the OEM ignition wires work? Like the ones between the solenoid, the key, the coil, the control module, and the dist? That is the kind of stuff I have never had the opportunity to learn. I guess now's the time : )

Whatever Dist I end up getting, I would like HaliFaxHops to work on the advance for it. Even if I mail him a brand new one and have him re-work it, that would be fine. He sold me a dist a while back that really helped my engine's output. And the only thing he did was correct the advance!
There are many versions of electronic ignition. The OEM type chrysler version with a ballast resistor and an orange or chrome or blue, factory type "control box" is not the most reliable, or the most efficient system out there. I toss it out on every mopar I have had at the first sign of trouble. Now this is holy war territory on a mopar site, but its a 40 year old ignition system, electronic or not, its antiquated. The ballast resistor is also a fail point.

Enter aftermarket options for electronic ignition. You add more spark, eliminate the ballast resistor, and more or less, create a stand alone system for the engine that is nearly independent of the factory wiring (other than a 12v power wire) you eliminate the ballast ( or ignore its existance on the car) as well as the original mopar "box".

The above can be as simple as an hei module equipped distributor.
READY TO RUN DISTRIBUTOR | MOPAR SB 273-360 | V8 ENGINE | BLACK CAP


A ready to run distributor with a circuit chip that does not require an ignition box.
PRO SERIES READY TO RUN DISTRIBUTOR | MOPAR SB 273-360 | V8 ENGINE | BLACK CAP

Or, you get the best of both worlds with a high output cdi box (with neat features like multi-spark, starter assist, and rev limit) in combination with a "2 wire" distributor. (Meaning one that wont self sustain, so it needs a box) typically the best option for this is a billet type, so the advance is fully adjustable. As you mentioned.
PRO SERIES 2 WIRE DISTRIBUTOR | MOPAR SB 273-360 | V8 ENGINE | BLACK CAP

IGNITION BOX | DIGITAL W/ REV LIMITER | BLACK

----
again, throwing a stock box back in, with an OE type distributor will work, but there are just alot better options 40 years later
 
Last edited:
Where do I get a Chrome Box? Would they be on Summit? I already have electronic ignition, but it is stock, what I meant was when I went from points to EI it was a big difference. I hope it is another big step up in performance to have the HEI cap Dist. in it with the Chrome Box.

I hear ya on the new converter. There is probably 5-10 more min labor to pull the TC once the flex plate and engine have been removed right? It will be needing the flex plate upgrade anyway, either way, pay now or pay later, and if it broke, well that would just suck. So yeah, I see your point.

The “stall” of the converter is a “rated” stall and can vary. To that end, call and converter company and give them all the information you can about the car. Your cam specs are one of the most major inputs for this. Along with many other factors. All of which are unknown to me. I’m really a manual 4spd guy, so, I can generalize a stall needed but I would rather let a pro handle it.

I’d call ether below;
Lenny at ultimate converter’s.
Frank Lupo at dynamic converters.

IMO, you ether run your stock ignition set up and swap in the chrome box https://bobmazzoliniracing.com/stor...ol-Units-P4120534/p/68641215/category=4308117
And proper ballast resistor for use with the stock distributor or step up to the ready to run distributor like I did and the second one Johnny Mac listed is what I recently used and like very much. It wires in very easy and is basically easier than OE stuff.
I was glad I talked to him (J-MAC) about this unit.
PRO SERIES READY TO RUN DISTRIBUTOR | MOPAR SB 273-360 | V8 ENGINE | BLACK CAP
 
The “stall” of the converter is a “rated” stall and can vary. To that end, call and converter company and give them all the information you can about the car. Your cam specs are one of the most major inputs for this. Along with many other factors. All of which are unknown to me. I’m really a manual 4spd guy, so, I can generalize a stall needed but I would rather let a pro handle it.

I’d call ether below;
Lenny at ultimate converter’s.
Frank Lupo at dynamic converters.

Thanks for the references, will do.

IMO, you ether run your stock ignition set up and swap in the chrome box https://bobmazzoliniracing.com/stor...ol-Units-P4120534/p/68641215/category=4308117
And proper ballast resistor for use with the stock distributor or step up to the ready to run distributor like I did and the second one Johnny Mac listed is what I recently used and like very much. It wires in very easy and is basically easier than OE stuff.

Okay, I will do some more research on it. I have had a lot of reliability with the OEM EI, never "needed" to upgrade because I ran basically stock. Now that I am going better than stock, I need a better than stock EI system too.

I was glad I talked to him (J-MAC) about this unit.
PRO SERIES READY TO RUN DISTRIBUTOR | MOPAR SB 273-360 | V8 ENGINE | BLACK CAP
 
-
Back
Top