My Dart Swinger Project!

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j par said:
I think the vote is in... Magnum swap! LOL$200 for a manifold and 350 for the motor and $50 for the electric fuel pump. I hope you had about 600 in the budget LOL
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Honestly I dont see me building the 360 for under 600! I'm gonna have to do some research homework and make some calls and make a decision. I have alot to learn about magnums if I go that route lol I would like to find a 5.9 5 speed magnum. :)
 
I may be back in business without to much damage! Look what I just found on Facebook. I messaged him to see if its std bore or not. He said it has been hot tanked and sonic tested. No word on bore size yet.

Screenshot_20181114-115516_Facebook.jpg
 
Out of curiosity. I know that the magnums oil the top via thru the pushrods. What would you have to do to put la heads on a mag to get oil? Is it as simple as using mag pushrods?
That could be a possibility if I could get a cheap magnum i could still use my 302 heads my 340 intake. Save a bunch of money on a magnum intake. If it doesn't cost a bunch to make the head work of course.
 
dartfreak75 said:
Out of curiosity. I know that the magnums oil the top via thru the pushrods. What would you have to do to put la heads on a mag to get oil? Is it as simple as using mag pushrods?
That could be a possibility if I could get a cheap magnum i could still use my 302 heads my 340 intake. Save a bunch of money on a magnum intake. If it doesn't cost a bunch to make the head work of course.
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Oil la heads through the push rods?
 
j par said:
Oil la heads through the push rods?
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No magnums. Ok I'm admit I'm confused lol factory magnums oil thru the pushrods. Correct?
What do you have to do to put la heads on a mag?
As far as that goes how do LAs get oil to the heads ?
 
dartfreak75 said:
No magnums. Ok I'm admit I'm confused lol factory magnums oil thru the pushrods. Correct?
What do you have to do to put la heads on a mag?
As far as that goes how do LAs get oil to the heads ?
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I think j par was suggesting "oil through the pushrods" to your question of how to oil LA heads on a Magnum block.

LA heads oil through the block. Up to the rocker arm shaft.
 
318willrun said:
I think j par was suggesting "oil through the pushrods" to your question of how to oil LA heads on a Magnum block.

LA heads oil through the block. Up to the rocker arm shaft.
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Ok that's what I thought. I wonder if that would work on the other way around? I remember years ago a friend of mine did a magnum head swap on his 360 he used magnum pushrods. IIRC that was it I'm not 100% sure tho. But that was an la with mag heads not a mag with la! This is just a thought.
 
318willrun said:
I think j par was suggesting "oil through the pushrods" to your question of how to oil LA heads on a Magnum block.

LA heads oil through the block. Up to the rocker arm shaft.
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I read Jpars post as a question and what is needed is a rocker arm that oils through the pushrods for an LA engine. Right now off hand I can’t think of one.. sorry, tired tonight.
 
rumblefish360 said:
I read Jpars post as a question and what is needed is a rocker arm that oils through the pushrods for an LA engine. Right now off hand I can’t think of one.. sorry, tired tonight.
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Magnums have studs instead of shafts so I wonder if one could fabricate a stud system in a la head and just use factory style mag rockers.?
 
Not on the factory head. There just isn’t enough meat there. A head like the EQ does have this already set up, ready for a drill and tapping.

Somewhere, some people have said they have used LA heads on a Magnum block and tapped the oil gallery to run lines to the head. I have not seen any pictures of this. One poster said he drilled the Magnum block a few inches down and tapped the new hole inside the engine in that fashion. That’s a lot of work but does make it possible for full time oiling to the rockers.
 
Cool not that I would actually try that but it sounds like a cool project lol.
I have been doing some research and weighing my options and kinda looking at the cost aspect of doing my engine in different ways. I have a few questions about the machine work part of it. I was punching some numbers just to see where i could get my compression. Using speedpro pistons 1.755 height. That puts me .065 below the deck. If I was to mill .030 of the deck and .030 of my heads (putting me at 59cc) using a felpro .040 headgasket. That would put me at 9.8:1 scr. And that is a .040 over bore. Here come the questions
1) removing. 060 would that require new pushrods?
2) could I run on pump gas (any and all grades) with that cr?
3) would milling .060 create a valve to piston clearance problem with the .454 lift cam?
There was more but I cant remember now i will ask when it comes back to me. I may start a new thread with these questions but I will wait for now. Thanks guys
 
dartfreak75 said:
Cool not that I would actually try that but it sounds like a cool project lol.
I have been doing some research and weighing my options and kinda looking at the cost aspect of doing my engine in different ways. I have a few questions about the machine work part of it. I was punching some numbers just to see where i could get my compression. Using speedpro pistons 1.755 height. That puts me .065 below the deck. If I was to mill .030 of the deck and .030 of my heads (putting me at 59cc) using a felpro .040 headgasket. That would put me at 9.8:1 scr. And that is a .040 over bore. Here come the questions
1) removing. 060 would that require new pushrods?
2) could I run on pump gas (any and all grades) with that cr?
3) would milling .060 create a valve to piston clearance problem with the .454 lift cam?
There was more but I cant remember now i will ask when it comes back to me. I may start a new thread with these questions but I will wait for now. Thanks guys
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I’ll answer the questions but suggest this is the wrong way to go about doing things because of other issues, real and possible that can/will/might show up.
This Maneuver is basically bass akwards.

1: New pushrods should be purchased on most every build with a new cam unless all things remain the same from the original configuration.

2: The question of compression and pump gas is mostly a loaded question. Generally speaking, without knowing the rest of the engine combo, a general hot rod build up and 9.8-1 is probably (and I grit my teeth when I say this and winch my head away) OK with 93 octane. (And again I grit my teeth, cringe my eyes closed and turn my head with possible regret on saying that because of the wide range of possible combination screw ups that loom.)

You wanna run ANY grade octane?
Then the ratio your looking at is 7.5-1.

3: Cam clearance will milled heads and a milled block? This answer is again a semi loaded question but I’d say it would be OK. HOWEVER! You need to check with some clay on the piston top, pump up the engine oil pressure, rotate the engine around a few times and then check clearances.

IMO, this is a bad path. I understand money is an issue but going this route could end up badly. If you do this, check everything on every step of the way or you could just be throwing money into the garbage can.
 
rumblefish360 said:
I’ll answer the questions but suggest this is the wrong way to go about doing things because of other issues, real and possible that can/will/might show up.
This Maneuver is basically bass akwards.

1: New pushrods should be purchased on most every build with a new cam unless all things remain the same from the original configuration.

2: The question of compression and pump gas is mostly a loaded question. Generally speaking, without knowing the rest of the engine combo, a general hot rod build up and 9.8-1 is probably (and I grit my teeth when I say this and winch my head away) OK with 93 octane. (And again I grit my teeth, cringe my eyes closed and turn my head with possible regret on saying that because of the wide range of possible combination screw ups that loom.)

You wanna run ANY grade octane?
Then the ratio your looking at is 7.5-1.

3: Cam clearance will milled heads and a milled block? This answer is again a semi loaded question but I’d say it would be OK. HOWEVER! You need to check with some clay on the piston top, pump up the engine oil pressure, rotate the engine around a few times and then check clearances.

IMO, this is a bad path. I understand money is an issue but going this route could end up badly. If you do this, check everything on every step of the way or you could just be throwing money into the garbage can.
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rumblefish360 said:
I’ll answer the questions but suggest this is the wrong way to go about doing things because of other issues, real and possible that can/will/might show up.
This Maneuver is basically bass akwards.

1: New pushrods should be purchased on most every build with a new cam unless all things remain the same from the original configuration.

2: The question of compression and pump gas is mostly a loaded question. Generally speaking, without knowing the rest of the engine combo, a general hot rod build up and 9.8-1 is probably (and I grit my teeth when I say this and winch my head away) OK with 93 octane. (And again I grit my teeth, cringe my eyes closed and turn my head with possible regret on saying that because of the wide range of possible combination screw ups that loom.)

You wanna run ANY grade octane?
Then the ratio your looking at is 7.5-1.

3: Cam clearance will milled heads and a milled block? This answer is again a semi loaded question but I’d say it would be OK. HOWEVER! You need to check with some clay on the piston top, pump up the engine oil pressure, rotate the engine around a few times and then check clearances.

IMO, this is a bad path. I understand money is an issue but going this route could end up badly. If you do this, check everything on every step of the way or you could just be throwing money into the garbage can.
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Thank you for your input as always it is greatly appreciated! I'm not sure what I'm doing yet I'm just checking prices for different paths and seeing what's gonna be the most affordable. Right now its pointing toward the 318 basicly either way I go 360 or 318 I'm gonna have to do machine work bore turn crank balance etc. So buck per hp yes the 360 would make more sense. But the problem is 360 pistons are considerably more expensive. And I already have the 318 motor mounts so I'd have to buy 360 ones from shumaker which isn't that big of a deal. Also I'm not sure my carb would work well on a 360 so that more money!
When you say I'm doing things bass ackwards what do you mean? If i build the 318 i already have the combo mapped out it's just a matter of boring the block to correct the pitted bores. I figured I may as well up the compression while I'm there! The intake carb cam headers ported 302 heads is staying the same nothing is changing there. Now if I do the 360 I start from scratch and I think that is what's scaring the hell out of me lol.
 
Oh! Sorry, perhaps some slang was not needed.
Back ackwards was actually a misprint and I meant to say “*** Backwards” but with switches letters.
Never mind.....

If your worried about the cost between the pistons, you shouldn’t be in this game until you bank roll an amount where you won’t care what the cost is and you will just get what is needed .

I know that sounded harsh but I’m not trying to be a jerk or dis swade you from trying.

Best of luck with your build efforts.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Oh! Sorry, perhaps some slang was not needed.
Back ackwards was actually a misprint and I meant to say “*** Backwards” but with switches letters.
Never mind.....

If your worried about the cost between the pistons, you shouldn’t be in this game until you bank roll an amount where you won’t care what the cost is and you will just get what is needed .

I know that sounded harsh but I’m not trying to be a jerk or dis swade you from trying.

Best of luck with your build efforts.
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I'm not sure what I said but I wasnt trying to be rude that was a serious honest question what do you mean by I'm doing it backwards what am doing backwards? I greatly respect your opinion and knowledge you tell it like it is. I apologize if you think I was being disrespectful or something.
 
When you ad all that la stuff up do you think it will be less than a magnum swap?
Boring Pistons rings seals gaskets head work ect...
 
j par said:
When you ad all that la stuff up do you think it will be less than a magnum swap?
Boring Pistons rings seals gaskets head work ect...
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That would be depend on if the magnum needed that too! Anytime you buy a used junkyard engine there is a chance it will need bored bearings etc . I am on the lookout tho. Hp wise are magnums easier to make power?
 
dartfreak75 said:
That would be depend on if the magnum needed that too! Anytime you buy a used junkyard engine there is a chance it will need bored bearings etc . I am on the lookout tho. Hp wise are magnums easier to make power?
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a stock magnum from the factory will have more hp and torque than a stock LA 360 from the factory. A lot of my engines have come from vehicles that I bought really cheap due to poor condition, but had excellent drive trains.
For examples, one time I bought a '89 maxi van with 360 for 300 bucks that had a excellent drive train with 116,*** miles. Drove it about 40 miles to get it home. Another time I bought a rusty rusty late 70's dodge truck for 200 bucks, with an excellent running 318. Drove it almost 1 hr to get it home. And can't forget the 318 diplomat police car I got for 100 bucks, drove it home after I put air in the tires. These are just a few examples of only some of the cars I've bought and stripped.
 
That is how I got the 318 I'm working on now I bought a 86 parts truck for my 85 for 400 bucks and drove it home and pulled everything off it and sold it for scrap. Like I said before I'm weighing my options nothing is set in stone if I can find a good running 318 or 360 for 300 to 500 yea that will be the best bet. I could take a compression gauge with me to make sure it don't have weak cylinder pressure that would be a good way kinda make sure the bores aren't over worn.
 
I just got a little bit of a crazy idea tho. I have a complete 360 (doesn't run) j par would you care to guess what I'm thinking?
 
dartfreak75 said:
I'm not sure what I said but I wasnt trying to be rude that was a serious honest question what do you mean by I'm doing it backwards what am doing backwards? I greatly respect your opinion and knowledge you tell it like it is. I apologize if you think I was being disrespectful or something.
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No no no, all is good. We’re good. I didn’t take anything as rude.
I just think that all the questions are going in a direction that’s crazy with milling the hell out this and that and then wondering if it will clear or work.

Truly your best rebuilding option is the 360 with a basic kit of inexpensive part selections.

However, Jpar has nailed it as I do think this was said before. That is the easiest and cheapest way out to do things.

Also take note that the MP crate engine were basically stock engines with just a few added on parts starting with a increased cam and valve spring package and an intake manifold. To copy one and make 380+hp is actually pretty ez.

Find yourself a low miles JY 5.9, add cam, springs, intake, 750 carb and heads and you’ll be in good shape.
j par said:
When you ad all that la stuff up do you think it will be less than a magnum swap?
Boring Pistons rings seals gaskets head work ect...
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Exactly, read this DF75

j par said:
Good Lord no! You're all over the place...
Lay it on me though...
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I echo this post DF75.
This is getting crazy.
 
Most Pick N pulls give a 30 day warranty and they usually have the mileage of the vehicle. If you were able to get one under a hundred and fifty thousand miles I doubt if you'd see much where at all. Maybe throw a $30 timing chain set on it.
 
Budgets make it tough..... darn. Yep, no way on that cylinder.

Option: You could bore that one cylinder... not unknown at all. At a .030" oversize, it is a whopping 0.6 cubic inches larger out of 40 ci... a whopping 1.5% difference. You will get more variation than that from different ring sealing and different cylinder filling.

For balance, just drill a bit of weight out of the new oversized piston's pin bosses and make the total of the piston+pin+rod weigh the same as the average of the other piston+pin+rod assemblies. For a budget situation and limited to mid RPM's, it will work OK. (It'll probably end up being the best cylinder in the engine LOL)

The trick is measure the compression height of the existing pistons and match that up, so that the 1 cylinder will not be at a different SCR.

However, I'd take it to a shop and ask their opinion on the rest of the bores before doing this. Or, borrow a bore gauge and check them out.
 
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