You gotta get rid of that annoying avatar. lol
Hot Start Issue Choke stuck?
- Thread starter bisblue
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You gotta get rid of that annoying avatar. lol
lilfontleroy
annoyinglilLeroy
Here is one!
Thats EGR. It also probably has OSAC which is a PIA and annoying.
The inner screw is for the fast idle. Position of the cam under different conditions is shown in the film mentioned above. Setting will be in the service manual.
Its possible your combo didn't come with an anti-dieseling solenoid. If so, that's great.
A diagram main circuit layout for your car look something like below.
Open circles or squares represent connectors.
Solid circles represent permament connections (splices).
Dashed arrows represent current flow with the engine running. There should be no voltage drops between the alternator output and the equipment its running. A couple tenths is acceptable.
When taking a voltage reading at the battery, look at the ammeter. If the battery is taking a charge then current is flowing in that wire as well and a voltage drop might be observed in that line ifthere is resistance.
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Write down the timing at a few different rpms if you can. The early emissions distributors have very fast advance curves. If you're checking at 1000 rpm, it might already be 4-8* into the advance. I've not looked at your year so it may be like that or may be different. But lets say it is. Then if its at 5* BTC at 1000 rpm, it might be 0* at 800 rpm. So when put into gear, the engine slows a little and loses timing.
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Yes, the reason I was asking the questions you quit answering was it sounded like you are very lean on idle, maybe drawing off the main circuit, and squirters not working properly. I see why now. Make sure you blow out the idle feed restrictors and squirters good with break clean or carb cleaner then air both directions. Make sure its getting through.
Will do, sorry about that I'm a park ranger and go out of communication fairly regular.
I blew out everything and scrubbed with q tips. Gonna find some thin wire tomorrow.
Really appreciate all the help folks. Got a new gas tank on the way and replaced all the rubber fuel hose. Should I try to clean the metal line? I have a clear fuel filter after the fuel pump.
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No problem. I was seasonal and term (NPS) non-LE.
Filter should catch everything but the smallest. Just keep an eye on it. I ended up having to replace the metal line (AZ car) but the tank was fine, so you never know.
Do the best you can on cleaning out the carb. The cats meow is an ultrasonic cleaner, but what you're doing is what most of us do.
You could try some strands from automotive wire if you think its that gunked up. Spray carb cleaner and air through it will get it pretty good. If that cluster comes out, definately clean in there too.
Often too small for the main carb bodies but will fit various parts.
Some background reading on using them for cleaning carbs at Speedtalk and RFS.
racingfuelsystems - Search for Ultrasonic in Title
Rebuilt carb same problem.
Runsruns well until it starts to get warm hundred 40 degrees or so and then just wants to stall out. I can start it and keep it running by getting on the gas but it won't idle.
The ballast resistor had a drop of about 1.5 volts compared to the battery. Replaced it no change the wiring looks a little rough though for the ballast resistor.
Electrical is certainly my weakest skill. I'm trying to run through basic how to off of forum for checking all the ignition parts.
Runsruns well until it starts to get warm hundred 40 degrees or so and then just wants to stall out. I can start it and keep it running by getting on the gas but it won't idle.
The ballast resistor had a drop of about 1.5 volts compared to the battery. Replaced it no change the wiring looks a little rough though for the ballast resistor.
Electrical is certainly my weakest skill. I'm trying to run through basic how to off of forum for checking all the ignition parts.
I don't know pal. If you can keep it running by pedaling it, I don't think i'd be looking at ignition trouble.
What about a vacuum leak? Can sound like beeping.
I fixed the wire. Same problem. I tried getting it going, using a bottle with a tiny pin hole in the cap to keep it going with gas. Still stalled eventually.
Tried the carb cleaner method for searching for a vacuum leak. Might need to get more serious. I did order a big pack of various sized vacuum caps off amazon. Leaving tonight but they will be here when I get back from vacation.
I'm wondering if the previous owner parked it, and it has lots of new parts because they were chasing the same thing ;)
Thanks again for the help folks.
Tried the carb cleaner method for searching for a vacuum leak. Might need to get more serious. I did order a big pack of various sized vacuum caps off amazon. Leaving tonight but they will be here when I get back from vacation.
I'm wondering if the previous owner parked it, and it has lots of new parts because they were chasing the same thing ;)
Thanks again for the help folks.
From this, it sounds like the choke and fast idle are opening too soon. As part of the rebuilding, did you set everything to the factory dry (bench) specs?
Then once its warm, did you try adjusting everything to spec the best you could?
What do the spark plugs look like? Anything seriously out of line? If so, theres a clue.
Which side? If there is resistance in the black alternator feed or the blue ignition wire, any place before it gets to the ballast, that's bad. If its on the other side of the ballast, then that's normal.
I agree with Dana, not likely ignition, since it starts and runs, and the fact you can keep it running by opening the throttle and giving it some pump shot. If the ECU is failing warm, changing throttle position and fueling wouldn't likely help.
Have you checked base timing yet? Although honestly don't think thats the main issue.
Having said all that ^^^^^^, There are some altered systems we see in the photos. Maybe those all need to be fixed or disponnected and plugged.
for example:
The EGR with braid covered hose to radiator. Even if you keep EGR, usually its not open when the engine is cold, or any time at idle or wide open throttle. So plug its vac source for now.
By the brake's vacuum booster it looks like there are two hoses with nothing attached to them.
'74 may have a spark delay module. I forget the details. OSAC or something.
Look for any temperature controlled switch. Could be in the air cleaner. Could be in the intake manifold's coolant passage. If there is a vacuum source attached to one of these, and the equipment is no longer attached, there will be a vacu leak when the valve opens. Someplace there is/was a diagram of the vacuum hoses for most of this stuff. Mightbe in the owners manual, sometimes in the shop manual. Later vehicles had stickers in the engine compartment. I dont remember when they started doing that.
Some of the V8 2bbl carbs simply cannot supply enough fuel in from the idle circuit with today's fuel.( Some of the motorcraft 2bbls come to mind.) They need modified for today's fuel. So if you have a carb that is borderline already, throw in the smallest vacuum leak and you have lean condition.Like I said in post #24, pay attention to your idle screws. Start backing them out 1/2 turn at a time and see if you see an improvement at around 3 to 4 turns from bottom, let us know. I think we may be honing in on a problem.
Sorry I tried answering in line and it seems to have gotten hidden.From this, it sounds like the choke and fast idle are opening too soon. As part of the rebuilding, did you set everything to the factory dry (bench) specs?
Affirmative
Then once its warm, did you try adjusting everything to spec the best you could?
I did but it won't get warm without stalling out. Then to start it it has to be pumping the gas, sometimes after some throttle feathering it will idle a bit. I tried pouring in gas from a bottle with a pin hole in it, but not major effect, still stalled out.
What do the spark plugs look like? Anything seriously out of line? If so, theres a clue.
A bit rich when I checked them a couple days ago.
Which side? If there is resistance in the black alternator feed or the blue ignition wire, any place before it gets to the ballast, that's bad. If its on the other side of the ballast, then that's normal.
Top Left and Bottom Left 10.6 volts ignition on car not running
top Right 10.6 volts
Bottom Right 6.something
I agree with Dana, not likely ignition, since it starts and runs, and the fact you can keep it running by opening the throttle and giving it some pump shot. If the ECU is failing warm, changing throttle position and fueling wouldn't likely help.
Have you checked base timing yet? Although honestly don't think thats the main issue.
I did and timed it about 5 degrees advanced. It's hard to get it up to temp and idling at 750 to time it.
Having said all that ^^^^^^, There are some altered systems we see in the photos. Maybe those all need to be fixed or disponnected and plugged.
for example:
The EGR with braid covered hose to radiator. Even if you keep EGR, usually its not open when the engine is cold, or any time at idle or wide open throttle. So plug its vac source for now.
Will do when vacuum caps show up in the mail. Tried with a hose plugged, but no difference. Really seems to be a temp point at which **** goes south. I think I heard the brake booster the last time I started it up and it died.
By the brake's vacuum booster it looks like there are two hoses with nothing attached to them.
Will do when vacuum caps show up in the mail.
'74 may have a spark delay module. I forget the details. OSAC What is OSAC? or something.
Look for any temperature controlled switch. Could be in the air cleaner. Could be in the intake manifold's coolant passage. If there is a vacuum source attached to one of these, and the equipment is no longer attached, there will be a vacu leak when the valve opens. Someplace there is/was a diagram of the vacuum hoses for most of this stuff. Mightbe in the owners manual, sometimes in the shop manual. Later vehicles had stickers in the engine compartment. I dont remember when they started doing that.
There are two sensors in the air cleaner. I plugged the lines they went to on the carb with a vacuum cap, thus why I was running out.
Thanks again for all of the help, I really appreciate it.
I'm packing for a trip and won't be able to work on it till Sunday night. Of course UPS brought my tank and I swapped it, but wasn't able to take it for a first drive. Bit of a bummer, as I'd really love to take it around the block, but a first world problem for sure.
Also I put in another voltage regulator to check and still got high readings on the ammeter at first start up, then smoothed out. The fuse blew twice that comes off the battery and goes to the back of the ammeter. Not sure who installed the fuse.
I also took two videos of it dying while hot.
Will try now as a last ditch effort before I hit the road.
Adjusted them back up to 4, no major change. If it sits a while it'll run a little bit, but then no idle without revving it up when it starts.
Also tried water in a mist bottle and carb cleaner to check around the intake manifold for leaks.
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It would be nice if you were running a see through fuel filter, and see if it goes empty when the symptoms start.
One of these may control the hot air flapper in the air cleaner's snorkel.
There may be a second flapper, also vacuum controlled, that opens when the engine is running. This minimized vapor loss to atmosphere when the engine is off.
Your system is more hacked than I thought.
But this "high readings on the ammeter at first start up, then smoothed out." I take to mean shows charging, then goes to center. If so, this is normal. Center is neither charging nor discharging.
As far as the fuse, people install them instead of a fusible link. But a fusible link is better for this job. It allows for short term high loads. For example you can drive at night on battery alone (maybe 15 amps discharging with the lights etc) and not burn the link. But if a wire grounds out, the link will will burn pretty quick with the battery trying to send as much current as it can through the circuit. Fusible Links in Charging Systems with Ammeter
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