Whatever we are doing here it must be working. I can't remember the last time someone here had a cam wiped even on break in.
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Zinc Rich Oil for Flat Tappet Cams
- Thread starter QuickDart360
- Start date
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S.Rodney
"Hang 10" owner
(I've got a '74 318)
Quaker State Defy 10w-30 with QS3600 filter
I wanna try AMSOil Z-Rod 10w-30 next change (nothing against QS but AMSOil is full synthetic. QS is a Synth-blend)
Quaker State Defy 10w-30 with QS3600 filter
I wanna try AMSOil Z-Rod 10w-30 next change (nothing against QS but AMSOil is full synthetic. QS is a Synth-blend)
moper
Well-Known Member
As long as your spring pressures are less than 350 over the nose I'd recommend any 15-40 diesel/fleet grade oil.
QuickDart360
Well-Known Member
Hey S. Rodney! Is quaker defy still around? I have looked for it and not much luck.
QuickDart360
Well-Known Member
Hey moper will be using some crane springs #69308 with retainers. These have 389 lbs spring rate. So 15/40 is not good enough for this spring pressure/rate? How about brad penn oil? I have a case of it. Just wondering.
Hey S. Rodney! Is quaker defy still around? I have looked for it and not much luck.
The tech data sheet I'm linking below for Quaker State Defy 10W-40 is dated this year. It looks like it's out there, but might take some looking. Amazon is showing some in stock. It never was a big mover for us, so I'm not surprised if it's hard to find on the shelves. I do remember seeing it at WalMart and Advance Auto, but that was at least a couple of years ago.
Even though the QS Defy has the API rating of SN, only the 10W-40 grade has higher levels of ZDDP. Anything lighter than that, like 10W-30, 5W-30 or 5W-20 is "resource conserving" and as such is required to have lower amounts. Sorry, I don't have the access to the data as to exactly how much.
https://www.quakerstate.com/en_us/p...b/001F9807_QuakerState_HighMileage_10W-40.pdf
You can see the relationship between the SN rated heavier oils and the higher levels of ZDDP in this data sheet for Mobil 1. It may not be up to the minute current, but it is recent. (Now I see it is dated October this year, so that's about as good as it gets.)
https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf
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DrCharles
Well-Known Member
A 389# spring rate means that compressing the spring one inch will add 389 lb to whatever the valve seat load is. More likely you have around 0.5 inch valve lift, guessing about 120# seat which is then 120+(0.5*389) = 315# at max lift.
(The force on the cam nose itself will be multiplied by your rocker arm ratio, and some other factors like opening the exhaust valve against residual cylinder pressure, also. But these rules of thumb are usually noted for just the valve spring loads).
QuickDart360
Well-Known Member
So have been running the mopar "red" springs with damper for about 8 years now. So decided to go with the new crane springs mentioned. Just doing so for added safety against valve float I suppose. These seem si close to the mopar spring. Will be running a 292 mopar cam.
DrCharles
Well-Known Member
Ah, the old 509 (or hopefully the newer 509 with the 114 lobe centers instead of 108). Your plugs and the guy behind you will appreciate it
Sounds like a reasonable spring, just make sure it fits everywhere (spring seats, valve guides, retainers, rockers, coil bind...)
Sounds like a reasonable spring, just make sure it fits everywhere (spring seats, valve guides, retainers, rockers, coil bind...)
QuickDart360
Well-Known Member
Well it's the old skool 108° lobe center. Rest of my car is set up for it I think. KB flat top pistons, X-heads,holley strip dominator intake, thermoquad that has been tweaked for more output and 3.91's in rear. 727 transmission with a 9.5" FTI 3400- 3600 stall converter. Car is a dodge dart sport 360.Ah, the old 509 (or hopefully the newer 509 with the 114 lobe centers instead of 108). Your plugs and the guy behind you will appreciate it
Sounds like a reasonable spring, just make sure it fits everywhere (spring seats, valve guides, retainers, rockers, coil bind...)
So, what’s the harm of adding zinc additive? Why would anyone take a chance to prove a point.
You will void your motor oil warranty. No lube oil manufacturer will warranty their product if it's chemistry may have been altered by the introduction of some other company's additive. If you lose your engine because of a lube failure, you'll be on your own.
You might harm your engine. We were taught to not recommend high ZDDP (~2000 ppm) racing oils for street engines, because they could cause pitting or spalling if left in your engine for extended periods. Those oils we sold were formulated for boosted nitro or alcohol engines, which have their own unique lube needs.
What will you gain? Will it actually work in concert with the additive already in your oil? Will you have enough, too much, or too little? You can't really know the answer to any of these questions. Figure out what you need, and buy a product that already that amount in it. They're out there. You just might not be able to walk in the local parts store and get some off the shelf.
Absolutely. I've handled several over the years. It has always consisted of submitting a sample of the oil claimed to be defective. The company tests it, and then follows the appropriate course of action based on the results of the test. I never had one paid. A filter claim once, though. We paid for everything, new engine, towing, car rental.
Some companies advertise their warranty. You've seen them. Usually it looks like marketing, which it often is.
bobscuda67
Well-Known Member
Recently installed a Lunati VooDoo cam in my car and they recommended a quality oil after break in. Synthetic or conventional is fine.
bbrroowwnn
never re member
I use Joe Gibbs
71DodgeDemon340
Well-Known Member
15w-50 mobil one full syn
QuickDart360
Well-Known Member
Sounds about right!
Why switch from vr-1, it contains the zinc needed . I've been using Valvoline racing oil since the 70's.Ok everyone! I know this has been beat to a pulp. But currently what oil preferably conventional is good enough to run in a 360 with stock clearances? I have been using 30 weight vr-1. But need other sources of oil please!!
Not one cam failure or bearing failure, not one! If you're gonna gamble, why not switch to Tech 2000 and a can of STP?
It is your dime, not mine.
QuickDart360
Well-Known Member
Not intending to switch just want another alternative to have if for some reason valvoline is not readily available that's all! I agree valvoline has been great @ protectiing my valvetrain components. My new concern is because will be using a little stiffer spring set in my 360. To complement the new 292 purple cam going in.
QuickDart360
Well-Known Member
So far have been using 30 weight straight oil from valvoline vr-1. I wonder if to go for a different weight? One that's easier to find? Would 10/30 weight be an equal to 30? Or a little thicker say 10/40?
71DodgeDemon340
Well-Known Member
10w-30 is the somewhat the same as sae 30 in that they both have the same heat protection, however the sae 30 weight isnt a multi viscosity oil, the 10w-30 will act as a 10 weight in cold temps and a 30 weight in hotter temps. So if you see any temps colder than say 40 degrees the 10w-30 may be a better choice (Temps in regard to outside temp not engine temp).
Using thinner oil when its cold out takes stress off the oil pump and aids in quicker delivery of the oil in cold temps, using a multi viscosity weight oil gets you the best of both worlds. Plain sae 30 weight isnt reccomended for temps any lower than about 35-40 degrees depending on which chart you go by but the 10w-30 because of the multi viscosity 10 weight cold rating it should be good in temps as cold as 15-20 degrees.
Always remember in multi weight viscosity oils the w in 10w-30 or any other multi viscosity weight stands for winter because it is the cold viscosity rating, the number after is the hot viscosity rating
I know this is published by gm but there are so many charts out there that all differ 5-10 degrees on the oil rating, this one looked closest to what i prefer as far as oil weights in the temperature ranges. Also if you have a vehicle with a owners manual there should also be a similar chart in it as well
Fwiw im running 15w-50 mobil one and she has no problem starting at 25-30 degrees.
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moper
Well-Known Member
This ^^
moper
Well-Known Member
I think your premise is correct, but the post is a little misleading. At least to me.
This is how I understand oil ratings:
The numbers that oil is labeled with represent more than one thing, because the oil has to meet required "standards". So it gets confusing. It's like saying it's a certain shade of blue for SAE-API 10W30...lol.
I understand it as the weight of an oil primarily means that it must provide the protection (load carrying ability) of that given rating. The same number includes the viscosity rating, which is about how temperature affects it. Oil thins, or gets less viscous, with heat. Conversely it thickens, or gets more viscous as it cools.
Viscosity number denotes resistance to flow. So the higher the viscosity number, the less easy it flows at a given temperature. A "straight weight" oil may still thin as it heats. But not by much and must always provide the protection that weight oil has to per the SAE-API. I know of no oil that gets thicker as it heats up, and regardless of it's viscosity if an oil carries a certain weight rating it must provide the performance of that rating. So a "0-50" oil has to provide the protection of a 50-weight oil at 212*. Even if it's not very viscous (as in it's very thin). That being said a higher number rating is about performance, not thickness. In mineral-based oils more protection meant it had to be thicker. No so with synthetics. The first time I ran 5-50 synthetic I was terrified because it was so thin compared to the 20-50 I was running. It still had to provide the performance of 50 weight rating, but it was much less viscous. That's what frees up power: less power loss to pump it and less loss as the parts spin through it while maintaining the protection.
The "0*" or "W" number indicates the tendency of that specific oil to thicken in the cold. 30W is thicker at all temperatures than 10W. 10W is thicker than 0W, etc. So 10W-40 is a 40 weight oil which thins less when cold than 15W40 at zero degrees. It still has to protect to a 40 weight rating at 212*. Even though it's technically thinner.
Here is a decent read about it... I still don't think I "get" all of it but I think I get the gist. http://www.pqiamerica.com/apiserviceclass.htm
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