Hotchkis tvs.

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dartfreak75

dartfreak75

Restore it, Dont part it!
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Hey iv been doing some research on getting a more reliable and safer vehicle as far as suspension steering and brakes go. Kind of a retro mod if you will. This is purely educational and for curiosity sake as I cant afford these types of upgrades right now but later down the road I would like to make upgrades to make my old car drive, handle and stop better and safer. After all all of the horse power in the world does no good if you cant stop or turn hahaha. Does anyone here have the hotchkis tvs (total vehicle system) installed on their car? If so how do you like it does it handle, control, corner, etc noticeably better than factory? Is there other systems that you would recommend over this one? This system appears to use factory style lca and torsion bars. But uses new uca im assuming that is to abtain more caster degrees. At around 2300 this seems like a quite expensive upgrade for a leaf spring torsion bar system. Does it handle better than say a coil over conversion? Im sure it would be alot easier and less modifying to do it with the hotchkis. Opinions please? Thanks
 
Don't fall into the marketing hype of the coilover conversions, they do look trick, provide a little more header clearance, and might weigh slightly less, but the FASTEST road race, handling mopars from our era are torsion bar/leaf equipped. And that TVS is quite a bit cheaper than a full aftermarket replacement. Check out the hotchkiss challenger, and even there 4 door B body to get a idea what's possible
 
And keep in mind, a savy shopper can do pretty significant upgrades in stages, as opposed to buying there complete kit. And if you have a welder and fab capability, you can really save money
 
replicaracer43 said:
Don't fall into the marketing hype of the coilover conversions, they do look trick, provide a little more header clearance, and might weigh slightly less, but the FASTEST road race, handling mopars from our era are torsion bar/leaf equipped. And that TVS is quite a bit cheaper than a full aftermarket replacement. Check out the hotchkiss challenger, and even there 4 door B body to get a idea what's possible
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I saw them on jay lenos garage john hotchkis did the suspension on jays 66 Ford galaxy. Looked almost stock but he said it handled like a new car. I had a 67 galaxy I know first hand how bad that thing handled it was horrible. My dart would run circles around it just because it turned so much better. So I was thinking If it would make a boat like a galaxy that much better my dart would drive like a pro touring Haha.
 
John Hotchkis was kind enough to supply his TVS parts to several cars that were given away at the MATS Vegas show. Big difference in stock vs modified. I've driven them first hand.Will it make you car handle as good as a HellCat ? No.But it is much better than 50 year old parts. Just front and rear sway bars added to your car will make a big difference.
If you were to sink 50 grand or more into your build then shoot for the moon. But for most of us the TVS is worth it. My 2 cents.
 
dartfreak75 said:
Hey iv been doing some research on getting a more reliable and safer vehicle as far as suspension steering and brakes go. Kind of a retro mod if you will. This is purely educational and for curiosity sake as I cant afford these types of upgrades right now but later down the road I would like to make upgrades to make my old car drive, handle and stop better and safer. After all all of the horse power in the world does no good if you cant stop or turn hahaha. Does anyone here have the hotchkis tvs (total vehicle system) installed on their car? If so how do you like it does it handle, control, corner, etc noticeably better than factory? Is there other systems that you would recommend over this one? This system appears to use factory style lca and torsion bars. But uses new uca im assuming that is to abtain more caster degrees. At around 2300 this seems like a quite expensive upgrade for a leaf spring torsion bar system. Does it handle better than say a coil over conversion? Im sure it would be alot easier and less modifying to do it with the hotchkis. Opinions please? Thanks
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My son has it on his 72 Scamp. It handles great. He also uses it for autocross.
 
Nothing beats reliability than a factory stock suspension system. They where built and garanteed to last a good while. This is not your typical Model A suspension setup anymore.
The factory spent millions of dollars during the years to come up with a good compromise between good handling, reliable and costs efficient parts, all with safety in mind.

Most people who say the aftermarket stuff is better are usually comparing their fully neglected and worn out stock suspension to a brand new aftermarket setup with all new parts. No wonder the new stuff 'shines'.
Also since they just spent a small fortune on the aftermarket stuff, they won't be very inclined to say the difference is minimal.
If they where to properly fix up the worn stuff on their suspension, and do some more on focussing and part-upgrades on handling, the difference will be much smaller.
The factory Mopar suspension is a well proven system. Read up on the various roadtests the car magazines did in the '60s. Most Mopars outhandled the stuff that GM and Ford had to offer.
 
BigBlockMopar said:
Nothing beats reliability than a factory stock suspension system. They where built and garanteed to last a good while. This is not your typical Model A suspension setup anymore.
The factory spent millions of dollars during the years to come up with a good compromise between good handling, reliable and costs efficient parts, all with safety in mind.

Most people who say the aftermarket stuff is better are usually comparing their fully neglected and worn out stock suspension to a brand new aftermarket setup with all new parts. No wonder the new stuff 'shines'.
Also since they just spent a small fortune on the aftermarket stuff, they won't be very inclined to say the difference is minimal.
If they where to properly fix up the worn stuff on their suspension, and do some more on focussing and part-upgrades on handling, the difference will be much smaller.
The factory Mopar suspension is a well proven system. Read up on the various roadtests the car magazines did in the '60s. Most Mopars outhandled the stuff that GM and Ford had to offer.
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Well I hate to prove your wrong. The Chrysler stock suspension does not have upper control arms with heim joints, the lower control arns do not have stock grease fitting for the bushings, the strut rods do not come with heim joints and adjustable. The suspension move more free by hand than the stock suspension will ever move, Now you will also put a larger swap bar on the front.
 
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68dodge said:
Well I hate to prove your wrong. The Chrysler stock suspension does not have upper control arms with heim joints, the lower control arns do not have stock grease fitting for the bushings, the strut rods do not come with heim joints and adjustable.
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Totally irrelevant, the stock suspension will last 100k miles on rough roads, through pot holes and road grime and salt. All those heim joints? Not a chance. The factory suspension was never designed to be a "race car" suspension, it's just so happens that with a few tweeks, it IS capable of being a race suspension
 
replicaracer43 said:
Totally irrelevant, the stock suspension will last 100k miles on rough roads, through pot holes and road grime and salt. All those heim joints? Not a chance. The factory suspension was never designed to be a "race car" suspension, it's just so happens that with a few tweeks, it IS capable of being a race suspension
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Well, like you just said, stock suspension was not designed to be like a race car suspension. So you can not compare it to the aftermarket suspension, That what my last right up was about, that the stock suspension is not like Hotchkis TVS. I have seen it work. No stock suspension will work the same.
 
My heim joints were loose and need replacing in 10K miles. Especially the tie rods. The UCA joints loose too.
 
dartfreak75 said:
Hey iv been doing some research on getting a more reliable and safer vehicle as far as suspension steering and brakes go. Kind of a retro mod if you will. This is purely educational and for curiosity sake as I cant afford these types of upgrades right now but later down the road I would like to make upgrades to make my old car drive, handle and stop better and safer. After all all of the horse power in the world does no good if you cant stop or turn hahaha.
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Properly set up and in good condition the stock sytem will perform pretty well.
Tires are the biggest factor. If using a standard all season radial then there's no sense in setting it up for what's need for competition tires. Traction is different, sidewall compliance is different, pavement is often different.
For mostly strip use, just make sure you have good brake lining and everything is adjusted.
For street use, add a front sway bar if it doesn't have one.
Does anyone here have the hotchkis tvs (total vehicle system) installed on their car? If so how do you like it does it handle, control, corner, etc noticeably better than factory? Is there other systems that you would recommend over this one? This system appears to use factory style lca and torsion bars. But uses new uca im assuming that is to abtain more caster degrees. At around 2300 this seems like a quite expensive upgrade for a leaf spring torsion bar system. Does it handle better than say a coil over conversion? Im sure it would be alot easier and less modifying to do it with the hotchkis. Opinions please? Thanks
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If you want to get more caster and neg camber, use MOOG 'problem solver' UCA bushings. If that's not enough, shim the LCA with hardened washers.
A step up in torsion bar size along with a front sway bar will be the most noticible changes for street use to spend $$ on.
Set the front end height at the low end of the factory spec, or a little lower, then set the alignment as has been discussed here before.
If you start getting into sticky tires, either r-comps, or even some of the ultra high performance passenger car tires for summer use, then more mods will be useful.
Otherwise just drive it and if you find something lacking/not to your taste, address those.
 
I have the full TVS on my Dart. It's a good system. I'd opt for stiffer leaf springs as mine sag too much when I have a passenger and/or tools. I have 1.18" T-bars and fox adjustable shocks and I feel it handles pretty darn well. That being said, I feel like my bone stock 2018 Subaru WRX handles way better than my Dart.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys. I have the moog offset bushings and I have new moog lca bushings and moog strut bushings along with new everything. Lol im going get the car moving with what I have and later on id like to start upgrading stuff like torsion bars and stiffer leafs. Let me ask this. In a driver car (not a drag car) would frame connectors and reinforcing the frame stiffens improve handling and cornering? Or is that just a straight line upgrade?
Also can sway bar tabs be added on to lcas that dont have them on? Seems like you could just weld them on yourself. Id like to add a swaybar eventually but my lca dont have the tabs.
 
dartfreak75 said:
In a driver car (not a drag car) would frame connectors and reinforcing the frame stiffens improve handling and cornering? Or is that just a straight line upgrade?
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Depends on the car and what you mean by handling. Cornering on smooth pavement with run of the mill all season radials? no.
Driving on bumpy dirt roads? maybe a little.
Again some depends on the specific car, how well it was assembled, and current condition.
The rest is how much load and impact is going to be applied through the wheels.

Also can sway bar tabs be added on to lcas that dont have them on? Seems like you could just weld them on yourself. Id like to add a swaybar eventually but my lca dont have the tabs.
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Yes, but positioning is critical.
 
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