1965 Dodge Dart 273 with A.C. Pulley Questions

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sgrip65

sgrip65

66 Dart GT 273, 65 Dart GT 273 HiPo
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Members. Can anyone help me with answers to a few questions regarding A.C. in my 65 Dart Restoration. This 65 was originally a slant six 225, and I am installing a 273 HiPo with power steering, alternator, and the A.C. pump. So the questions are: how many belt sheaves do I need on the crank pulley, do I need a double sheave alternator pulley, and etc. Since my slant six had the air conditioning, will converting to a V8 create any problems as far as the associated parts? I do have a V8 radiator for the conversion. So, basically, I see the belt routing in the FSM, but I guess I am confused on the number of belt sheaves in the various locations. For example, the belt sheaves on the crank pulley, alternator power steering pump, and/or the A.C. compressor itself. Could anyone help me with these questions. I checked online for images or diagrams, but that was not of any help. Maybe some pics? I appreciate any help anyone can offer. Thank you for your time and assistance. sgrip65
 
If my memory is correct you will need three belts, fan, power steering , and a/c. So that would make 3 sheaves for the crank. The alternator would need will run 2 belts, the fan and the a/c pump, so that's a 2 pulley alternator.
 
Three belts. Power steering,ac,alternator one belt only. Pictures

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So what we see in the pic provided looks like OEM 273. That would be a cast iron water pump, rubber balancer like a/c pulley, and a little tensioner for that single a/c belt.
Depending on what year model the crate engine is... Its highly possible that none of that setup will work. If the crate engine is a later model LA with aluminum water pump, you may as well seek all those pulleys and accessory brackets for that belt arrangement, ( matched pair of belts on alt' and a/c compumper ).
 
RedFish said:
So what we see in the pic provided looks like OEM 273. That would be a cast iron water pump, rubber balancer like a/c pulley, and a little tensioner for that single a/c belt.
Depending on what year model the crate engine is... Its highly possible that none of that setup will work. If the crate engine is a later model LA with aluminum water pump, you may as well seek all those pulleys and accessory brackets for that belt arrangement, ( matched pair of belts on alt' and a/c compumper ).
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The engine which I am using is a 1966 273 being installed in a 1965 Dodge Dart. Thanks. sgrip65
 
On my 65 Dart 270 wagon with 273x2 bbl and my 65 Dartcharger convertible with 274x4 bbl they both have 4 belts. One for the power steering pump, one for the fan/waterpump and two belts for the compressor/alternator.

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65dartcharger said:
On my 65 Dart 270 wagon with 273x2 bbl and my 65 Dartcharger convertible with 274x4 bbl they both have 4 belts. One for the power steering pump, one for the fan/waterpump and two belts for the compressor/alternator.

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65dartcharger said:
On my 65 Dart 270 wagon with 273x2 bbl and my 65 Dartcharger convertible with 274x4 bbl they both have 4 belts. One for the power steering pump, one for the fan/waterpump and two belts for the compressor/alternator.

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Thanks Ulf. I appreciate you taking your time to help me out. The pics help a bunch. Good responses from all. sgrip65
 
retractable said:
The 273 engine is original to My Barracuda with 3 belts on the crank. The picture with the PS cap showing also shows the 3 belts.
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Retractable. Thanks for the input. Appreciate it. sgrip65
 
So looks like there was a single belt compressor setup, and a dual belt compressor setup in 65. I would have to find out which was most common and work from there.
 
RedFish said:
So looks like there was a single belt compressor setup, and a dual belt compressor setup in 65. I would have to find out which was most common and work from there.
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Hello Redfish. I see Ulf has a two pulley compressor. Mine has one pulley, although mine came off of a slant 6 car. I understand that they are the same except for the number of pulleys. Can anyone verify that question? Slant six=one pulley, V8=2pulleys, or does it matter slantb6 or V8. Thanks. sgrip65
 
sgrip65 said:
Ulf. Thanks for the additional photos. It looks like you have a 4-groove crank pulley. I have looked online, and it does not appear that there are too many used ones out there. Turns out that I do not have one. Time to go on the parts hunt once again. Thanks. sgrip65
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I might have a 4 groove crank pulley for you!
 
sgrip65 said:
Hello Redfish. I see Ulf has a two pulley compressor. Mine has one pulley, although mine came off of a slant 6 car. I understand that they are the same except for the number of pulleys. Can anyone verify that question? Slant six=one pulley, V8=2pulleys, or does it matter slantb6 or V8. Thanks. sgrip65
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Keep in mind that I'm no historian or engineer. I just look at what they did, what the changed over time and theorize…. As best I can tell 65 model 273 had either setup. Those above, one a Dodge, the other Plymouth. I'm guessing the single belt design was their first attempt at a/c on LA. I think the single belt did work better on a slant 6 because its off idle rpm doesn't ramp as quickly. Without research I would say no engine they offered before the LA had so quick off idle rpm ramp.
If I had a choice I would want the 2 belt compumper drive. I don't believe a single V belt ever was enough to drive the V2 compumper on LA and their engineers figured that out. I imagine the vibration damper design in that a/c crank pulley had to do with tightening belt(s) tight as a banjo spring and/or absorbing belt bounce.
The heavier design alternator brackets of both early LA and the later model LA was probably relative to belt tension also. My 67 273 without a/c has a very simple tringle shape piece of 1/4 thick plate for alternator bracket. Earlier 273 had a heavier duty design of alt' bracket with or without a/c.
 
RedFish said:
Keep in mind that I'm no historian or engineer. I just look at what they did, what the changed over time and theorize…. As best I can tell 65 model 273 had either setup. Those above, one a Dodge, the other Plymouth. I'm guessing the single belt design was their first attempt at a/c on LA. I think the single belt did work better on a slant 6 because its off idle rpm doesn't ramp as quickly. Without research I would say no engine they offered before the LA had so quick off idle rpm ramp.
If I had a choice I would want the 2 belt compumper drive. I don't believe a single V belt ever was enough to drive the V2 compumper on LA and their engineers figured that out. I imagine the vibration damper design in that a/c crank pulley had to do with tightening belt(s) tight as a banjo spring and/or absorbing belt bounce.
The heavier design alternator brackets of both early LA and the later model LA was probably relative to belt tension also. My 67 273 without a/c has a very simple tringle shape piece of 1/4 thick plate for alternator bracket. Earlier 273 had a heavier duty design of alt' bracket with or without a/c.
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RF, Thankyou for the information. What you said makes perfect sense...engineer or not, common sense and observation gives a clue once you provided the suggestion. I do have a RV2 from a 72 Dodge pickup truck, and the compressors look reasonably the same. Anyone know if I can swap the clutch and pulley from the 71 P/U to the 65 RV twin single pulley? RF, Thanks for the analysis. Looks like I will need a 4 groove pulley and a V8 RV2 compressor bracket. If anyone can help me with that....I will post on parts wanted. Appreciate your time. sgrip65
 
Jerry! I have a 4 groove pullet but it's for a bigblock I found out. But I found a 3 groove crank pulley for a 273 w/dealer installed A/C. Can it fit with your compressor?

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65dartcharger said:
Jerry! I have a 4 groove pullet but it's for a bigblock I found out. But I found a 3 groove crank pulley for a 273 w/dealer installed A/C. Can it fit with your compressor?

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Hi Ulf. Thank you for helping me with this. As I commented, my skills rest with body and paint, so, to answer your question....will the three groove work with my compressor?......I do not know the answer. The slant six, which I removed from the 65, had a 3-groove crank pulley, along with a single groove RV-Twin compressor. Redfish, answered in this thread, and he seemed to think that a double groove compressor would manage the idle ramp a bit better. The three groove, I believe, will work as on my 66 GT the crank pulley is a triple groove crank pulley with a single groove compressor. What would you need to have for the triple with the shipping? You can send that quote via PM if you woukd like. Thanks Ulf. Jerry
 
sgrip65 I have had 2 66 "S" Barracudas with factory air and both had the single compressor drive. The 66 "S" that I kept has 43000 original miles and I have had it 34 years with out any belt troubles . I dont think you will either. I would like to find out when they changed to the two belt system or if it was just for Dodge cars. Jay
 
retractable said:
sgrip65 I have had 2 66 "S" Barracudas with factory air and both had the single compressor drive. The 66 "S" that I kept has 43000 original miles and I have had it 34 years with out any belt troubles . I dont think you will either. I would like to find out when they changed to the two belt system or if it was just for Dodge cars. Jay
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Jay. I do not know what to tell you. Indeed, the 65 slant 6 Dodge I have was a single pulley, but as I look at Ulf's pics, I see his is a double pulley. 65 Dartman suggested that the double pulley, possibly, was factory; whereas, the single pulley may have been dealer installed. Your 66 has factory air with a single pulley, so between Plymouth and Dodge may have been a change in what they put in them. Was Dodge a cheaper version than the Plymouth or vice/versa? Interesting. Examining these old cars and what they did to construct them brings up some questions to be answered I guess. I appreciate your help. Jerry
 
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