440 Build Suggestions

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grad896

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Hello all,
I'm pretty new to this site and was looking for some build suggestions on my new 440, I've always been around Mopar engines and working on them but have never really gone after bigger horsepower so I was looking to those with more experience than myself. I've been doing a lot of research and have come up with a generally build of what I want to do.

I've got a 440 block that I'm gonna have bored 0.030 over, stock crank and rods
Kieth Black Pistons with Trickflow Powerport 240 heads, should be around 10.5:1
Comp cam XE285HL, 241/247 @0.5, .545/.545 Lift
APR head bolts
3000 stall with 323 gears, might upgrade to 355 later, rebuild 727 trans with shift kit
1 7/8 headers
One of the questions I had was about the valve train, I know it would be optimal to upgrade to more modern components, but I was wondering how the stock would hold up? I've inspected them and they seem to be in good condition. Other wise I was looking for an estimated horsepower, I guessed based on other builds around 575hp, otherwise was looking for any suggestions for improvement. Thanks
 
That cam and the necessary springs will punch the pushrods through stock rockers. Ask me how I know!
 
qkcuda said:
That cam and the necessary springs will punch the pushrods through stock rockers. Ask me how I know!
Click to expand...
Yeah, was worried about this, I was also considering a smaller cam, possibly the XE275HL, w/ 231/237@ .5, .525/.525 lift, dont know if this is better suited
 
Upgrade your valve springs and go with some adjustable rockers. Don't wait, put in a 3:55 or 3:91 rear gear now. 65'
 
Either upgrade the valve springs and rockers or go with a .501 lift cam ( still need better springs). The .545 cam doesn't start to work below 3500rpm . With your gears the motor will feel lazy going down the road . 575 h.p. sounds a little ambitious to me . If you want 575 , you need a looser converter and taller gears . You won't like it on the street , otherwise .
 
383Scampman said:
Either upgrade the valve springs and rockers or go with a .501 lift cam ( still need better springs). The .545 cam doesn't start to work below 3500rpm . With your gears the motor will feel lazy going down the road . 575 h.p. sounds a little ambitious to me . If you want 575 , you need a looser converter and taller gears . You won't like it on the street , otherwise .
Click to expand...

How do you know where the .545 cam starts working? Have you run it? Do you have a dyno sheet? I run a similar cam and it starts working way below that. It makes peak tq at 3500RPM.

Depending on his combo it may feel lazy with 3:23 gears but not necessarily. Unless you have an OD transmission you are going to have to compromise. I've yet to see a 440 that felt lazy and was well tuned.

A loose convertor and steeper gears won't make more HP nor is it required for more HP. It totally depends on use, power output and where it makes toque as well as the overall combo.
 
roccodart440 said:
How do you know where the .545 cam starts working? Have you run it? Do you have a dyno sheet? I run a similar cam and it starts working way below that. It makes peak tq at 3500RPM.

Depending on his combo it may feel lazy with 3:23 gears but not necessarily. Unless you have an OD transmission you are going to have to compromise. I've yet to see a 440 that felt lazy and was well tuned.

A loose convertor and steeper gears won't make more HP nor is it required for more HP. It totally depends on use, power output and where it makes toque as well as the overall combo.
Click to expand...
This is what I was thinking, im gonna drive it around the street primarily, I realize that this cam might be too much might step it down, having an od transmission would be nice, but its something i dont have so I think the 323 would be the best option
 
Also, how do guys think the edelbrock performer rpm compare to the trickflow, they seemed like a good option as well, with upgraded springs?
 
Good combo, sounds like. The hottest cam I have run with the stock rockers, is a .509. It worked great!
 
The stock stamped rockers have been very reliable for me with the old Comp 292 magnum . 244 at .050 duration, .501 lift. Tons of street miles and some drag racing with one rocker failure and that was 20 years ago. No problem since. Stock pushrods too. I don't think I would try them with one of those fast rate High Lift cams though. Speaking of the HL series, I've heard that a couple of engine builders have had valvetrain instability issues with those. 3.23 gears are just fine. Went 12.35 at 107 in a 68 Sat with 8.5 440 ,906s, old Torker, 750 dp, Comp 292, 3500ish 10 inch GER converter and 28x9 ET drags. Super low buck combo. A nice 10.5 440 like yours with TFs should be easily in the 11s with 3.23s. Don't be afraid to put some converter in it.
 
forphorty said:
The stock stamped rockers have been very reliable for me with the old Comp 292 magnum . 244 at .050 duration, .501 lift. Tons of street miles and some drag racing with one rocker failure and that was 20 years ago. No problem since. Stock pushrods too. I don't think I would try them with one of those fast rate High Lift cams though. Speaking of the HL series, I've heard that a couple of engine builders have had valvetrain instability issues with those. 3.23 gears are just fine. Went 12.35 at 107 in a 68 Sat with 8.5 440 ,906s, old Torker, 750 dp, Comp 292, 3500ish 10 inch GER converter and 28x9 ET drags. Super low buck combo. A nice 10.5 440 like yours with TFs should be easily in the 11s with 3.23s. Don't be afraid to put some converter in it.
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Thanks for the suggestions, I read up on an article on Hot Rod magazine where they used this cam with the stock rockers, it is written by Steve Dulcich, which I would consider a reliable builder, this is the article How You Can Build a Stout 537HP Street 440, will probably upgrade rockers anyway just to ensure long term longevity.
 
Well I write magazine articles also but my big blocks make 700 hp on pump gas! We Test Intake Manifolds and Carburetors on our 400 Stroker in Search of Ultimate Power - Hot Rod Network

The problem with dyno article out of magazines is that we tune the engines to make a ton of power on the dyno. That is the point of the article after all. Guys reading the magazine sometimes get confused and think that dyno power is the same as street power but it isn't. Those are two different things.

Sounds to me like you're building a street engine for a heavy car with high gears. It also sounds like you have a limited budget since you are using stock rocker arms. When you add a limited budget to a heavy car with 3.23 gears and stock rocker arms and a 3.75 stroke you end up with a narrow operating window. A big cam will turn that combo into a pig. Forget the dyno articles, go find the street car articles. Trust me, you want to stay small with the cam. Biggest cam I'd use in that car would be a Mopar .528 solid and even it would probably be too big. A lot depends on the carb and you didn't say what you have but my guess is that you don't have a high dollar carb with adjustable metering blocks. In that case you need to go even smaller with the carb.

Read this article and see what you think. I think you would want to use the smallest cam I tested in this article. Anything larger than the smallest cam in this article will most likely make your car no fun to drive. Especially if you aren't the best carb tuner in your neck of the woods......

Moparts on the Web - Main Index
 
AndyF said:
Well I write magazine articles also but my big blocks make 700 hp on pump gas! We Test Intake Manifolds and Carburetors on our 400 Stroker in Search of Ultimate Power - Hot Rod Network

The problem with dyno article out of magazines is that we tune the engines to make a ton of power on the dyno. That is the point of the article after all. Guys reading the magazine sometimes get confused and think that dyno power is the same as street power but it isn't. Those are two different things.

Sounds to me like you're building a street engine for a heavy car with high gears. It also sounds like you have a limited budget since you are using stock rocker arms. When you add a limited budget to a heavy car with 3.23 gears and stock rocker arms and a 3.75 stroke you end up with a narrow operating window. A big cam will turn that combo into a pig. Forget the dyno articles, go find the street car articles. Trust me, you want to stay small with the cam. Biggest cam I'd use in that car would be a Mopar .528 solid and even it would probably be too big. A lot depends on the carb and you didn't say what you have but my guess is that you don't have a high dollar carb with adjustable metering blocks. In that case you need to go even smaller with the carb.

Read this article and see what you think. I think you would want to use the smallest cam I tested in this article. Anything larger than the smallest cam in this article will most likely make your car no fun to drive. Especially if you aren't the best carb tuner in your neck of the woods......

Moparts on the Web - Main
thanks for the article thats an interesting read, i do see what you mean by going with a smaller cam i was considering going to the comp xe27hl, .525/.525 lift or even the lunati 1023970lK .513/.533 lift. I have an 850 Holley street hp, I'd say I'm semi competent when it comes to carb tuning but by no means the greatest, i have a friend that has a shop with a chassis dyno so i can get my car tuned there for better results.
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thanks for the article thats an interesting read, i do see what you mean by going with a smaller cam i was considering going to the comp xe27hl, .525/.525 lift or even the lunati 1023970lK .513/.533 lift. I have an 850 Holley street hp, I'd say I'm semi competent when it comes to carb tuning but by no means the greatest, i have a friend that has a shop with a chassis dyno so i can get my car tuned there for better results.
 
If you stay on the small size with the cam then you'll have a chance of getting that carb tuned. If you really want a nice running combination then sell the carb and distributor that you have and buy a Holley Sniper setup with the Hyperspark distributor. That will give you computer controlled fuel injection as well as computer controlled ignition timing and a built in data logger. Once you have those three things you can dial in a perfect tune.
 
AndyF said:
If you stay on the small size with the cam then you'll have a chance of getting that carb tuned. If you really want a nice running combination then sell the carb and distributor that you have and buy a Holley Sniper setup with the Hyperspark distributor. That will give you computer controlled fuel injection as well as computer controlled ignition timing and a built in data logger. Once you have those three things you can dial in a perfect tune.
Click to expand...
always did think the fuel injection stuff nowadays is pretty cool, especially being able to bring a laptop and set different tune ups in the car, think I'm a little to old school for that stuff, but thanks for the suggestion
 
That stuff is really nice, I'm sure. It would take a little work to get to know how it operates, and to set it up. I wonder how much that Sniper set costs? Does that require a fuel pump in the gas tank?
 
Wow that set up looks really nice, and fairly simple to hook up! Just bolt it on in place of the carb, put a temp sensor in the coolant neck, fuel pump in the tank (may be the hardest part), and an O2 sensor in the ex system, from there it's plug in all the wiring and go! It self adjusts to operating conditions. Plus the it can log all the data for each trip.
 
AndyF said:
Well I write magazine articles also but my big blocks make 700 hp on pump gas! We Test Intake Manifolds and Carburetors on our 400 Stroker in Search of Ultimate Power - Hot Rod Network

The problem with dyno article out of magazines is that we tune the engines to make a ton of power on the dyno. That is the point of the article after all. Guys reading the magazine sometimes get confused and think that dyno power is the same as street power but it isn't. Those are two different things.

Sounds to me like you're building a street engine for a heavy car with high gears. It also sounds like you have a limited budget since you are using stock rocker arms. When you add a limited budget to a heavy car with 3.23 gears and stock rocker arms and a 3.75 stroke you end up with a narrow operating window. A big cam will turn that combo into a pig. Forget the dyno articles, go find the street car articles. Trust me, you want to stay small with the cam. Biggest cam I'd use in that car would be a Mopar .528 solid and even it would probably be too big. A lot depends on the carb and you didn't say what you have but my guess is that you don't have a high dollar carb with adjustable metering blocks. In that case you need to go even smaller with the carb.

Read this article and see what you think. I think you would want to use the smallest cam I tested in this article. Anything larger than the smallest cam in this article will most likely make your car no fun to drive. Especially if you aren't the best carb tuner in your neck of the woods......

Moparts on the Web - Main Index
Click to expand...

Andy, they used box stock edelbrock RPM heads in that dyno article posted up there, had 527lb-ft of torque at 3600rpm and 538 at 4200-4500rpm roughly.
How much would the larger ports on the PP240 heads shift the torque curve up?

were you running a mech. fuel pump on the coronet when you did that cam test?
 
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